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Rexxie

Elimination: Tier 10 - E5 Triumphant! (COMPLETE)

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Batchat 25t: 6 + 1 = 7  The 2.000 dmg burst combined with great mobility and camo allows for very active gameplay. Also mountain goating in this thing is way too much fun
FV215b: 19 
T-62A: 11
Object 140: 6
TVP T50/51: 22
E 100: 27
E 50M: 14 - 3 = 11   I just can't seem to get this tank too work, the armor is crap when everybody just shoots straight through the turret and the great final accuracy struggles to make up for the bad dpm.
T110E5: 29
M48: 27
AMX 50B: 31

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1 hour ago, Rexxie said:

By what metric? Top four WR tanks are the E5, IS-4, TVP, and E-100.

 

Globally, yes, but the IS4 and E100 are bricks, and bricks presumably perform better for the average player (correct me here if im wrong). As far as high level gameplay goes, id say i am mostly on point, and as most players here are above average to good and very good i would expect the rankings to fit into my expectations.  

What i think makes the E100 rank so high is not the skill ceiling (still a slow ass heavy) but the low amount of effort it takes to play it at a decent level because of the armor, HP and boomstick.

By what am i ranking the tanks? Well, simply carry potential*damage farm abilities.

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1 minute ago, Dragos_CS said:

Globally, yes, but the IS4 and E100 are bricks, and bricks presumably perform better for the average player (correct me here if im wrong).

Those are the top 4 tanks for superunicums. People really, really underestimate bricks. They do perform better for your average joe, but in this case it doesn't actually matter since they are so powerful in the first place.

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5 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

Those are the top 4 tanks for superunicums. People really, really underestimate bricks.

That surely comes off as a surprise. Is there any info on platoon % in case of these tanks? Knowing how purples usually play their tanks and how they set their platoons i wouldnt be surprised if heavies saw more platooning.

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Batchat 25t: 7
FV215b: 19 
T-62A: 11
Object 140: 6-3 = 3, not as impenetrable as the T-62A, and you don't really need the extra speed or gun depression. Dispersion on the move and turning is countered by slightly worse base accuracy (aim time is irrelevant)
TVP T50/51: 22+1 = 23, Batchat good but not best (TVP best)
E 100: 27
E 50 M: 11
T110E5: 29
M48: 27
AMX 50B: 31

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Batchat 25t: 7
FV215b: 19 
T-62A: 11
Object 140: 3 = 0, Bye bye 140 and bye bye module damage every time you get hit.. 
TVP T50/51: 23+1 = 24 Not voted for this tank yet but the 50B seems safe and the batchat, well its still my favorite tank but bias voting does not seem fair compared to the tanks that are left. 
E 100: 27
E 50 M: 11
T110E5: 29
M48: 27
AMX 50B: 31

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Batchat 25t: 8 Still such a carry tank at least for me. The insane flexibility and the high influence it can have on a flank with 2k Burst Damage make it so convenient to play.
FV215b: 16 Played it only on test server, great effective DPM but it feels so fragile. E5 and E100 both have much better armour.
T-62A: 11
 TVP T50/51: 24 
E 100: 27
E 50 M: 11
T110E5: 29
M48: 27
AMX 50B: 31

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Well, now that 140 is dead before the bat, E 50M, and E 100 which are all worse, it's time to work towards killing them.

Batchat 25t: 8 
FV215b: 17 | The best heavy here if you know how to use it.
T-62A: 11
 TVP T50/51: 24 
E 100: 24 | Really nice heavy for city maps, but just can't compete with the E5 and 215b in general; those are much better heavies even in city maps.
E 50 M: 11
T110E5: 29
M48: 27
AMX 50B: 31

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Batchat 25t: 8 
FV215b: 17 
T-62A: 11
 TVP T50/51: 24 
E 100: 24 - 3 = 21: Ah, someone saved me the trouble of downvoting the 140 again. On that basis it's time to start getting rid of the most inflexible tanks left, starting with the E 100. Yes, you can tank reasonably well, but your turret is absolute butter (worse than a Maus unless the Maus is aiming at you) and I just see you as XP pinatas as soon as you fire. Nice, easily farmable targets that additionally can't relocate at all due to speed and the massive sign saying 'SHOOT ME' don't really belong in this elite company.
E 50 M: 11 + 1 = 12: As both this and the T-62A are the lowest on points right now, it made me consider which one is was better. In an ideal situation, with no arty and hull down, it's the T-62A. Clean up or side shots, same story. But for overall flexibility, bullying lower tiers, sidescraping and a fucking railgun to boot, the E50 M is still bae, and that's why it deserves an upboat.
T110E5: 29
M48: 27
AMX 50B: 31

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Batchat 25t: 5 (-3 because reasons stated earlier)
FV215b: 17
T-62A: 11
TVP T50/51: 24 
E 100: 21
E 50 M: 12
T110E5: 29
M48: 28 (+1 are you fucking kidding me? People are retarded if this tank doesn't win the game... Tryhard blues buying the tank and realise you cannot snipe with it all game are coming here to their disappointment :doge: literally every single one of the top of the top players agree on this being the absolute best tank in the hands of someone playing close to perfectly except Carbon :kjugh:
AMX 50B: 31

 

edited because sniped by snore

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Good to see how it is going. My baby 50 M survived so far among the sharks into top 10, and probably would drop when only 5 would left. Can not really compete with E5 and 50 B. But 62 A should go first. BC is dead anyway.

I am still not sure what is FV doing here so long. I do not have one, but in randoms even unicums die horribly in it, once they started getting shot at. I have no trouble penning the turret with HEAT, it is much softer than E5 one...and hull is made of paper, ufp as well as lfp. PPL complain about E 100 being a gold magnet...but shooting FV if you load gold you do not even need to aim. Turret ring soak shots that missed lfp/ufp/tumor...and you get damage.

Bad tank to win a flank, 2500 hp usually goes down in 2 fires. I had the same troubles with KV-4, but tier for tier the KV had a beast mode armor...Why ppl do not bring 2 fire ext? I run it on my KV+rep kit.

If I am in E 100, I always try to protect one of these, but I hate when I am in a slow tank and that thing just dies while near me (which will inevitably happen). Then I am stuck on a falling flank. If i chose another route maybe I could have smashed the way to enemy base faster than the red team to ours.

P.S. arty magnet E 100 receives love from arty every game, but it is usually 300-500 a pop+ tracking. FV often gets full penn on engine deck or sides, and failing the full pen, at least full splash (700-1000)+fires. And arty loves FV even more than E 100, it is just that there is never enough of them to gain that reputation. For arty, hitting an FV is a heavy tank equivalent to hitting Waffle E 100.

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g fucking g.

this is literally giving me cancer now.

how do you guys managed to get 140 out before 62A and E50M?

literally except for that turret roof that has a size of like 1 pixel if you know gun depression is a thing, 62A has nothing over 140. Are you seriously telling me that a 62A can carry more games than 140? do you even know how limited it is? ever realize that you can't even bounce any shot from a T8 medium that is yoloing you reliably? And how are cupola/turret roof shots even possible when you are fighting at 100-200m away which is actually optimal for both 62A and 140?

as for the module damage, you guys need to get good and take less hits.

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2 hours ago, Dragos_CS said:

That surely comes off as a surprise. Is there any info on platoon % in case of these tanks? Knowing how purples usually play their tanks and how they set their platoons i wouldnt be surprised if heavies saw more platooning.

(just looking at unicum / super unicum)

heavys > mediums for winning, especially in platoon (but also solo) no armor, like leopard or bat chat simply means you trow away many games, stomping tier 8 tanks also gives more wins as beating tier 10 tanks. Mobility is ofc important, but it gets overrated, main advantage of beiing fast is to get at the frontline fast enough, so IS7, with ghetto turning but good straight line speed is ``just as fast`` as an E50m in 90% of the situations...

also ``flexing`` sounds rly nice, but most of the time you go to a certain side, and you

  1. Win that (and go back)
  2. You get overrun and will eventually die

Your flexing is thus 90% of the time useless, especially since more flex means less power, an E100 doesnt need to be ``flexible``, since it will just stomp all puny tanks in front of it....

The E100 is simply the best tier 10 heavy (ties with E5), its ``weak turret front``, doesnt matter, since you only show it when you are reloaded (corner fighting anyone?) with 2700 hp, 750 alpha dmg and an impervious UFP there is not a single tank in the game which can defeat an E100 head on, driving a tank which can just fight anythign 1vs1 is suchs a powerfull asset. E5`s are super annoying to face, but an E100? it can 3 shot it, and HEAT wont bounce, unless rly unlucky, just get close and stomp him. You win shit trade, and if he rushes you, just puhs him to a wal, get him stuck, and fuck him up.

The E100 is due to stronk wg balancing (TD nerfs, maps) nowadays synonyms for power, it 3 shots almost anything it sees, and it needs only 32 seconds for that. On top of that it gets ridiculous much HP, the best ``anti-arty-armor`` of the game, an impervious UFP, an turret which can only be penetrated with gold ammo, large ammo capacity (IS4 and 113 say hi) good gun depression, and not that slow (it needs a good crew, so vent + bia + 2x mobility perk).

Maus and type 5 are examples of a shit super heavys, E100 is a example of a strong super heavy...

ps: the ``weak`` E100 turret is as strong as IS7 UFP, both bounce AP, both get penetrated by gold ammo, so anyone who says IS7 gets a strong UFP also says E100 gets a strong turret front....

Now it gets hard, i wanna negreg Fv215b, since its probably the worst of the list (but alrdy did once) bat chat, because its the second weakest, or T62, because Obj 140 > T62, and Obj 140 is alrdy out, hmm

Batchat 25t: 5
FV215b: 17 - 3 = 14, i guess bat chat will be kill anyway, so i will alrdy downvote this again, would be silly to see all ru meds go before the Fv goes...
T-62A: 8
TVP T50/51: 24 
E 100: 21 + 1 = 22,
E 50 M: 12
T110E5: 29
M48: 29

ps: E100 and E5 are the best heavys, E50m, M48, Obj 140 and Skoda the best meds, its imo hard to say whats better

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26 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

Mobility is ofc important, but it gets overrated, main advantage of beiing fast is to get at the frontline fast enough, so IS7, with ghetto turning but good straight line speed is ``just as fast`` as an E50m in 90% of the situations...

also ``flexing`` sounds rly nice, but most of the time you go to a certain side, and you

  1. Win that (and go back)
  2. You get overrun and will eventually die
3

I wouldn't say that IS7 is as fast as E50M 90% of the time...it is most likely even slower/equal to M48 most of the time. E50M is considered as a fast medium after all.

Also, one thing is that, a lot of times you ignore the importance of flexing because there's no chance of you doing it, so a heavy sometimes have to commit even when it is clear that it is almost impossible for you to win this fight. But it is a whole different story for mediums because they have the mobility to fall back to a secondary position to "support" the teammates that are stuck there, or just flex to the other flank that is hopefully advantageous.

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1 hour ago, Megrin said:

I wouldn't say that IS7 is as fast as E50M 90% of the time...it is most likely even slower/equal to M48 most of the time. E50M is considered as a fast medium after all.

Also, one thing is that, a lot of times you ignore the importance of flexing because there's no chance of you doing it, so a heavy sometimes have to commit even when it is clear that it is almost impossible for you to win this fight. But it is a whole different story for mediums because they have the mobility to fall back to a secondary position to "support" the teammates that are stuck there, or just flex to the other flank that is hopefully advantageous.

Oh sure, an E100 once commited to a flank cant go back, but its so strong, it will often win where a normal tank would loose (normal as in IS7 / 113 / IS4) its a bit like KV5, it will take a lot of dmg and cant rly relocate, but it has sheer dpm / armor to overpower the enemy (its not really outplaying / outsmarting the other guy, its like elegant fighter vs dumb brute)

ps: yeah, IS7 is a bit too slow to make it a fair comparison :P

 

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Batchat 25t: 5-3=2 played this one on the test server. Sure its a great scout but super limited ammo capacity, and gun handling that quite frankly is very poor. The amount of times I've been yolod by a BC that couldnt finish the job cause he bounced/missed/got trolled by the gun isn't funny. Great for late game carries and clean up but I really value gun handling.
FV215b: 17
T-62A: 11
TVP T50/51: 24 
E 100: 21
E 50 M: 12+1=13 A better E50 yes please, the gun handling may not be m48/ru med levels but its really good and doesn't make you cringe. .30 acc? Yes please. Ramming, way too much fun. Decent enough armor? Yes. 1200HP? lets rock and roll. The DPM isn't good for a ten but its not terribad not workable. How often are you firing for a the full DPM anyway? rarely am I in my RU meds and this thing has  enough armor to bounce more than the other NATO meds.
T110E5: 29
M48: 28
AMX 50B: 31

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7 hours ago, Mureke said:

Batchat 25t: 6
FV215b: 19 
T-62A: 11 It's questionable to downvote any Russian med, but I fail to see the uniqueness in this one. It takes considerable effort to find hull-down positions that make use of the turret armor. Gun dispersion is nice, but the Patton has almost the same stats with additional gun depression and alpha.
Object 140: 6 Moving around the map, snapshotting everything on the move. The meta is so fast-paced that there's no time to stop to shoot.
TVP T50/51: 22
E 100: 27
E 50M: 14
T110E5: 29
M48: 27
AMX 50B: 31

You downvoted a tank that is better than the one you upvoted in the reason you upvoted it for xD

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6 hours ago, Dragos_CS said:

That surely comes off as a surprise. Is there any info on platoon % in case of these tanks? Knowing how purples usually play their tanks and how they set their platoons i wouldnt be surprised if heavies saw more platooning.

There is a potential vulnerability where some tanks may be played more frequently in platoons, and it's a pain to test. However, what you'd see then is an unusually high skill-scaling value (because mediocre platoons don't pad winrate), which is the opposite of what you see here: The bricks don't have good skill scaling, but they're higher across the board.

There's an interesting difference here between RU and EU: On RU, the Maus is relatively strong while on EU the IS-4 is relatively strong. I suspect it's caused by the high arty counts on RU. The IS-4 has pretty bad roof armour for a heavy.

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27 minutes ago, kariverson said:

You downvoted a tank that is better than the one you upvoted in the reason you upvoted it for xD

It is not better. The 140 is better for on-the-move snapshots due to its slightly better dispersion on the move and higher top speed. Furthermore, the extra degree of gun depression allows those snap shots to happen without bumps in the terrain messing up as many shots. The T62-A is redundant and boring.

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Love how I had hope for a 140 vs 62a discussion that actually emphasized module damage (because that's what kills the 140 for me).

Nope.

Goes right back to "62A HAS BETTER TURRET AND 140 IS FASTER AND 20% MORE GUN DEP."

 

Sigh.

You guys are literally arguing over minute differences in stats that won't matter in 99% of scenarios. -5 will work just as well as -6 in the majority of situations. The gun handling is basically the same, who gives a fuck about 0.01 better on the move dispersion or turret traverse dispersion? They're both pretty good at hull down and vulnerable to 330 HEAT when hulldown.

But...

I play aggressively. Therefore I tend to take more hits. Therefore I can't stand playing a tank that is ammoracked or set on fire half the time. Therefore 62a masterrace.

That being said, I just set a 62a on fire with my PT A frontally and he was running food :QBFlip:

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38 minutes ago, cpraf104 said:

Love how I had hope for a 140 vs 62a discussion that actually emphasized module damage (because that's what kills the 140 for me).

Nope.

Goes right back to "62A HAS BETTER TURRET AND 140 IS FASTER AND 20% MORE GUN DEP."

 

Sigh.

You guys are literally arguing over minute differences in stats that won't matter in 99% of scenarios. -5 will work just as well as -6 in the majority of situations. The gun handling is basically the same, who gives a fuck about 0.01 better on the move dispersion or turret traverse dispersion? They're both pretty good at hull down and vulnerable to 330 HEAT when hulldown.

But...

I play aggressively. Therefore I tend to take more hits. Therefore I can't stand playing a tank that is ammoracked or set on fire half the time. Therefore 62a masterrace.

That being said, I just set a 62a on fire with my PT A frontally and he was running food :QBFlip:

I disagree. It is indeed VERY different and the 140 is more comfortable across the board. Module damage is not a problem for me, tracks shouldn't be shootable the way you'd play a 140/62a half of the time which reduced the module damage taken down to 4 possible modules (ammorack,gun,turret and viewport) at those times. Combine that with the fact that racks through turret are rare to begin with you have a very low module damage rate compared to any tank whatsoever. 62a is about the same tbh, more fires from my experience but less racks which adds up to about the same, and we're back to comparing top speed + depression and hull armour vs turret armour, small gun stat differences and I can honestly say I'll do better in a 140 3/4 games than in a 62a because don't need to drive up side of cliffs to stay hulldown on target. I'd argue 7 dep is the sweet spot where you can start using almost all terrain to your advantage, but 6 means little exposure while 5 means more, and more exposure is always worse. 140 will never have to expose more than a 62a, and combine that with higher top speed/hull armour that can actually be used it starts taking the lead pretty fast.

That said I run big rep and AFE so crits/fires aren't an issue in general on any RU med. 

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Fucking blues man, cant even tell what tanks are good. How the fuck did you guys eliminate the 140? I know i hate the 140 but i'd never downvote it because its clearly stronger then some of the remaining tanks (see batchat, E-50m, m48) and they are still here?

 

Batchat 25t: 2
FV215b: 17
T-62A: 11
TVP T50/51: 24+1: 25 Statistically only losing to the T-22, the fact that this ever dropped under 20 points makes this entire thread questionable.
E 100: 21
E 50 M: 13-3:10 It's not good, stop trying to say it's good. Armor isnt reliable, turret is crap, dpm isn't great. the only thing this has going for it is its ability to bully tier 8s, thats not good enough at this stage.
T110E5: 29
M48: 28
AMX 50B: 31

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Watched this thread for a while.  Suppose I should finally chime in.

 

Batchat 25t: 2
FV215b: 17
T-62A: 11
TVP T50/51: 25
E 100: 21+1 22  Highest non-TD alpha.  Second highest HP.  Good arti resistance.  Fast enough to get to the fight, and has all the tools required to win that fight.  
E 50 M: 10-3 7  Fairly good tank.  Reliable pub stomper.  But considering the tanks that are left... I feel this is the weakest of the remaining tanks.  
T110E5: 29
M48: 28
AMX 50B: 31

 

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