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Since there is no topic about this yet:

Few days ago i saw the following on TAP:  – +-1 balance is not planned, but instead a 3-5-7 system;

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/page/4/

This was only lised once, and not in more detail, but i think its a change as big as gold ammo or the switch from +3 to +2 mm.

The reason beiing, that if that rule is enforced ``strict`` it means:

  • no more sole bottom tier tanks (always atleast 7 low tiers)
  • no more top tier ehavy fights, so no more games with 4-10 tier 10 tanks
  • no more fight with only 2 tiers ????  (say 8 and 9 or 9 and 10)

The impact of this change is massive, since it means:

  • The moment there is a tier 10 platoon, its only that platoon as tier 10,
  • The moment there is tier 10 arty, it means at most 2 tier 10 tanks.
  • Triple arty platoons will totally fuck mm, unless WG adds ``special measurements`` since you get 3 tier 10 arty as top tiers, and thats it, so unless mm balances this with 3 other tier 10 arty you get full retard mm, something WG wants to prevent....
  • Light tanks get way better mm, since a tier 8 scout will always get into a game with at most 3 tier 10, 5 tier 9 and 6 other tier 8.

It also leads to 2 very important questions:

  • no more +3 mm for light tanks??? tier 7 scouts no longer see tier 10?
  • no more arty platoons at all, since triple platoon as top tier is basically impossible, or do arty platoons get mm penalty? what about tier 10 arty platoons?
  • What about spmm vehicles? IS6 always top tier 10 2 other tier 8? no way WG is this stupid right?? tier 8 spmm platoon = only tier 8 when top tier = 90% winratio possible??

And it ofc means a massive balance shift, since tanks will fight much more same and lower tier tanks, balance wise tanks with good armor and bad guns will benefit while those with bad armor and good guns will ``suffer`` (relative speaking)

A Black Prince will become much better, while an Tiger becomes less effective, paper medium tanks with good guns loose their strength while slow bricks become ``stronger``.

So: Will we really get this mm? given that WG is very silent last months and everything is moved to: ``the great rebalance`` i get more and more the feeling that either nothing will change, or that WG will go full retard, changing:

  • Chaning mm to 3-5-7
  • Banning arty platoons
  • Worse mm for platoons (hence they get the exp bonus :serb: )
  • Penetration nerf of a year back

Would totally change the game, a tier 10 medium with 240 pen is shit, but not when it can club tier 8/9 tanks all day long, while banning arty platoons would also improve the game...

Or is it just dumb talk from Storm and will nothing happen? WG even made a video about the ``significant changes``

http://worldoftanks.com/en/media/6/veh-bal-20-test-ann/

Total new mm would certainly require total rebalance (like how gold ammo needed total rebalance, but WG somehow forgot that...)

 

 

 

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Arty platoons always did break MM. Should just ban more than 1 arty per platoon, as they did with carriers in WoWS.

3-5-7 can't work generally because tier 10 is too popular (especially on RU) and tiers 3-4 aren't popular enough. They'd need to make tier 10 much less popular and pad the low tiers with bots.

I wouldn't bet that you have 3-5-7 the right way around. 7 top 3 bottom makes more sense with the current population spread.

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7 minutes ago, RichardNixon said:

Arty platoons always did break MM. Should just ban more than 1 arty per platoon, as they did with carriers in WoWS.

3-5-7 can't work generally because tier 10 is too popular (especially on RU) and tiers 3-4 aren't popular enough. They'd need to make tier 10 much less popular and pad the low tiers with bots.

I wouldn't bet that you have 3-5-7 the right way around. 7 top 3 bottom makes more sense with the current population spread.

Wouldnt that make the mm actually worse for many tanks? it means you are bottom tier 3/15 ~20% of the time in a total shit game (your more often top tier though)

But in both cases suchs strict mm means WG does need to rethink both arty / scout and spmm platoons

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The idea is very good - remember beta/early release when more or less you already had that kind of "pyramid MM", only with a bigger tier difference. It was glorious - just 1-4 top tiers all the time and the bottom tier could do something beside being cannon fodder. The problem I see is how WG tends to fuck up good ideas by implementing some kind of nonsense along the way.

 

Nowdays I often just leave the battle, when I m the "only" tier 8 (hvy) in a 80% t10 match. Its just a waste of time.

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1 minute ago, Folterknecht said:

The idea is very good - remember beta/early release when more or less you already had that kind of "pyramid MM", only with a bigger tier difference.

It only worked then because the population was also a pyramid. To get back to a similar tier distribution they'd need to make high tiers too expensive to play regularly, even on a premium account. Either that or persuade most of the experienced players to quit.

Another option is that 3-5-7 is just the maximum spread in either direction: It won't create 3-tier battles with fewer than 3 bottom or top tier tanks.

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The amount of bottom tier uselessness is one of my biggest issues with WoT, so I don't mind them changing that, although knowing WG they will most definitely fuck it up.

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13 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

It sounds like a really bad idea, TBH.

Would completely fuck up MM queues as well.

yeah, unless its as Richard says the other way around:

  • 7x tier 10
  • 5x tier 9
  • 3x tier 8

Would mean tier 8 gets shit on even more, since half those tier 8 tanks will be light and arty....

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1 hour ago, GehakteMolen said:

yeah, unless its as Richard says the other way around:

  • 7x tier 10
  • 5x tier 9
  • 3x tier 8

Would mean tier 8 gets shit on even more, since half those tier 8 tanks will be light and arty....

Would still fuck up queue times, because MM would have to wait for exactly 7 tier 10s for each team, 5 tier 9s, and 3 tier 8s, instead of just throwing together what was currently in the queue 

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3 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

Since there is no topic about this yet:

Few days ago i saw the following on TAP:  – +-1 balance is not planned, but instead a 3-5-7 system;

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/page/4/

This was only lised once, and not in more detail, but i think its a change as big as gold ammo or the switch from +3 to +2 mm.

The reason beiing, that if that rule is enforced ``strict`` it means:

  • no more sole bottom tier tanks (always atleast 7 low tiers)
  • no more top tier ehavy fights, so no more games with 4-10 tier 10 tanks
  • no more fight with only 2 tiers ????  (say 8 and 9 or 9 and 10)

 

[edited: snip]

 

 

The solution seems quite easy actually, just (re)introduce higher battle tiers so that in battle tier 12 there's only tier X. Right?

Edited by dolfiegol
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17 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Would still fuck up queue times, because MM would have to wait for exactly 7 tier 10s for each team, 5 tier 9s, and 3 tier 8s, instead of just throwing together what was currently in the queue 

WG no longer shows tank in queue, but when they still did, there where always hunderds of tanks in queue, so that shouldnt be that much of a problem, it also depends on how strict they are, if it can also be 6-5-4 or 6-4-5 then it would already greatly speed up the whole thing

fixed mm numbers do mean that WG needs to remove all trash platoons, fail platoons will be banned in the future, so perhaps they will also ban 2-3 arty or 2-3 light tanks in 1 platoon

ps: a way better solution would be to greatly reduce the income of tier 10 tanks, to force all idiots to lower tier vehicles, combine with new mm (3-5-7) and some other changes (gold ammo nerf, reduce damage ffs!!!, HE rework) it will create a lot of chaos, but better everything at once as everything seperated, HE penetrations should just go, so should HEAT / AP for arty, aswell as arty and light tank platoons....

If WG doesnt change major stuff fast, the game will start to really die, its not too late yet, but time is running (slowly) out...

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11 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

WG no longer shows tank in queue, but when they still did, there where always hunderds of tanks in queue, so that shouldnt be that much of a problem, it also depends on how strict they are, if it can also be 6-5-4 or 6-4-5 then it would already greatly speed up the whole thing

fixed mm numbers do mean that WG needs to remove all trash platoons, fail platoons will be banned in the future, so perhaps they will also ban 2-3 arty or 2-3 light tanks in 1 platoon

ps: a way better solution would be to greatly reduce the income of tier 10 tanks, to force all idiots to lower tier vehicles, combine with new mm (3-5-7) and some other changes (gold ammo nerf, reduce damage ffs!!!, HE rework) it will create a lot of chaos, but better everything at once as everything seperated, HE penetrations should just go, so should HEAT / AP for arty, aswell as arty and light tank platoons....

If WG doesnt change major stuff fast, the game will start to really die, its not too late yet, but time is running (slowly) out...

Maybe on EU where you have 50/30k people perpetually online. on NA it shifts from 30k to under 5k frequently. Queue times would be awful even if the idea is really good.

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21 minutes ago, _Assad said:

Maybe on EU where you have 50/30k people perpetually online. on NA it shifts from 30k to under 5k frequently. Queue times would be awful even if the idea is really good.

If WG balance everything correctly and make the game enjoyable, I can guarantee that thousands of more players would be interested in trying the game out or getting back into it. That's just a hope though.

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1 hour ago, GehakteMolen said:

WG no longer shows tank in queue, but when they still did, there where always hunderds of tanks in queue, so that shouldnt be that much of a problem, it also depends on how strict they are, if it can also be 6-5-4 or 6-4-5 then it would already greatly speed up the whole thing

On EU, yeah. Not on NA. At my prime time on NA, there is usually around 2000 players online, on west server. Maybe 5K on east. Queue times would take forever, especially if everyones playing the same tier (which they usually are at that time, because everyone else is so that where they get the best games)

Like, you would never get a tier 6 battle, or a tier 5 battle, or anything below tier 5 with that system. And if you do get a tier 5/6 battle it will be bottom tier.

Tier 10 queue times will be horrible, if there are only 3 tier 10s per side, because thats where most people play at my prime time. Tier 8 games would probably be instant, but it would be garunteed bottom tier. (playing regular 8s at that time is already bad because its literally like 75% of your games being tier 10 battles)

 

It just wouldnt work

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48 minutes ago, Masterpupil2 said:

If WG balance everything correctly and make the game enjoyable, I can guarantee that thousands of more players would be interested in trying the game out or getting back into it. That's just a hope though.

I dont think even hope can overcome 50% rng

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Lol how is this possibly a better solution than: 

Hardcapping arty to 2/3

Not more than +/- 2 in tank class differences (a team of TDs vs a team of meds on Sand River/Mountain Pass for example makes for SHIT games for everyone) while different setups make for new and "exciting" gameplay it still leaves the game unbalanced

Same amount of tanks per tier per team

 

Along with reworking a few maps and you'll have A LOT more fun in the game

 

additional points for adding necessary visual aids (NOT battle assistant, more like people using serverside crosshairs since WGs is laggy) in the game and banning close to every other form of mod and removing the top ends complaints about the game and WoT might actually start heading off as an eSport, with the better players coming back and can start focusing on the lower end once they've established a BETTER foundation for the future of promoting their game and most of all keeping it all alive in the first place. 

 

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4 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

yeah, unless its as Richard says the other way around:

  • 7x tier 10
  • 5x tier 9
  • 3x tier 8

Would mean tier 8 gets shit on even more, since half those tier 8 tanks will be light and arty....

This was actually posted in an official news article a week ago on NA, the relevant excerpt matches what is on TAP:

From http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/pc-browser/17/915-platoon-changes/ (you have to hit More info and scroll to the bottom

Quote

Beyond Update 9.15, we plan to eliminate the ability to Platoon with vehicles of different tiers. With that change, developers will be able to make the necessary improvements to the way teams are created, also known as "matchmaking".

Unlike the existing matchmaking system that depends on the number of players in line for battle on the server, the new system will instead focus on the equality of opposing teams in terms of tier and vehicle type. The current plan is to create battles using the "3-5-7 principle," with three maximum-tier tanks, five mid-tier tanks, and seven mininum-tier tanks for the battle.

This new system will not only help to solve the problem of unbalanced teams, but will also improve Random Battle gameplay by allowing vehicles to reach their full potential and can completely change the outcome of battles.

 

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Why doesnt WG do the smart fucking thing and make 7v7 pubs for T10. Jesus fucking christ.

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I'll gladly take the odd bullshit battle out of 10 varied and not-the-exact-same battles 10 out of 10 times any day. If anything, such a change makes the game even more boring, as you are basically going to play the exact same match over and over and over and over and over again. Besides, people's problem with matchmaking is not "being the odd single lowtier tank in the game" in the first place anyways. Their problem is being the only odd green/blue/purple in a sea of red versus a team that has an odd red in a sea of green/blue/purple.

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The more recent Q&As seems to be saying that arty basically wouldn't platoon and they'd adjust the MM of lights with the possibility of tier 10 lights.

However I can only see this working if battle tier 12 comes back, otherwise tier 10s are just being invited to club even more, and then even more so if you get a tier 10 platoon. As you'll be one of a max three tier 10s with a load of tier 8s to club, or if a platoon ALL the tier 10s in a team. 3 Obj. 140s of decent players could get like a 80-90% WR with such a set up. 

If you have BT-12 (also BT-11 wouldn't work in this system) then you'd have the tier 10 tanks forming both the 'top' AND 'middle' tiers in the system, with maybe tier 9s as the 'bottom' tiers (for BT-11). So you'd then have games of 8 tier 10s (3 + 5) and 7 tier 9, or games of all tier 10, or games of 3 Tier 10 and 12 tier 9 for this to work.

Also without battle tier 12, would tier 8s not end up with more games as bottom tier?

Sure they'd have lots of other tier 8s to fight in those games, but they'd constantly be needed to fill up games so tier 10 players can actually get games with only 3 of them being used each time.

I'd rather be top tier, as a tier 8, like 40% of the time now with the odd game where I'm one of only a few tier 8s in a tier 10, rather than like 60 - 70% of games as cannon fodder make weight for tier 10 platoons. 

It also wouldn't surprise me if WG had completely forgot about the smaller servers or didn't apply this to them.  Only RU and EU have the player numbers to make this work.

Also note in the recent Q&A there are comments about them consulting with players about arty -

Quote

We have scrutinized the issues related to this vehicle type, analyzed feedback from those players who drive SPGs and those who face SPGs in battle.

I am willing to bet none of those 'players' were EU or NA. 

 

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I disagree wholeheartedly with these changes, no matter how you adjust the battle tiers or ensure MM balance by reversing 3-5-7 so the the 3 is the bottom tier.

I generally agree with @Kolni and think that the classes need to be balanced when forming teams. This last week has seen so many Grille 15's (does it have a unique MM weight? As there always seems to be an even number on each side), but you will also get one team with like 4 or 5 extra TDs and the other team with heavies and meds. It's just BS to play, for both teams. Having an equal or near equal number of heavies, TDs and meds will make the games much more dynamic and provide like-minded enemies for you to face off against, rather than risking getting shot by 10 tier 10 TDs just to try and spot an enemy.

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Already planned:

Storm Q&A 26.05.2016:

- tanks should be separated by roles – scouts, breakthrough tanks, 2nd line tanks, support etc, the balance aims to create maximum symmetry in roles over both teams; "

---------------

What comes to 3-5-7, impossible at some times of day unless WG can kick peoples play lower tiers somehow. At least in EU seems average tier goes up lot during late night compared to day time. Go look replays day time, usually like 2-5 t10 tanks in match. Go look replays late night, often 8-12 t10 tanks in game. Assault and encounter modes are special case, they seem to give much lower average tiers even late night probably because lot of t10 players have those modes turned off.  If that 3-5-7 rule was enforced strictly it would lead t10 tanks sitting in 5 min queues untill kicked and never getting fight. Or other choice being, MM keeps peoples sitting in queue untill some time cap and after that it just makes match with whatever is available -> full T10 fight.

 

More good bits from https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2016/05/30/qa-30th-may-2016/

Slava Makarov:

– regarding system to resolve teir 10 arty and tier 8 LT in platoons – no final solution yet, but I am against arty in platoons whatsoever;
– I am looking at the statistics – arty platoons are a problem for balancing, while they exist, there will be problems;
– while writing the new balancing algorithm, it also became apparent that arty platoons are a problem;
– arty usability should be increased, also through new functionalities;

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42 minutes ago, sahtila said:

– arty usability should be increased, also through new functionalities;

Already expecting arta accuracy and penetration buff with magic 300m spotting shells, incendiary shells and fucking guided missiles... for SerB's sake

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Give heavy/medium tanks +1/-1 mm, so they can be effective (tiger vs type 4 heavy or e75 is just retarded, tiger vs is3 works better), give +2 mm to scouts and TDs..

Smm tanks keep their mm, with a higher chance to be top tier or just give them +0 mm and prevent triple is6 platoons..

Limit arty to 1 per game when top tier, 2 when middle or bottom and prevent them from platooning..

Introduce 7/68 in team battles while keeping 7/54 (it's fun) so you have less tier 10s waiting in queue..

3-5-7 might work, but I imagine being a E100 against is3s and t32s that literally can't do shit if the E100 knows what he's doing.. or the weak E5..

Remove the fucking corridor maps, #makelighttanksgreatagain and make more paths to get to the cap (not 1 or 2, at least 4/5 different approaches)

That would do the trick..

No more suffering in a tier 8 heavy against tier 10s nor suiciding early game because you can't do shit against a ST-I in your tiger P, this way you give these tanks a chance to do something instead of being fodder..

 

Oh, right.. fuck 25% RNG, make it less than 10%

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16 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

a way better solution would be to greatly reduce the income of tier 10 tanks, to force all idiots to lower tier vehicles

seriously? That would mean you have to pay for a prem account. Not that WG would complain about that, but tier 10 is the most enjoyable tier for me. I could play it less often and would have to grind credits first. --> less fun

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