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This thread is full of bad ideas.

3-5-7 would make for some good matches.  More om noms for the 3 top tier tanks, but more targets for the bottom tier tanks.  The problem is that it doesn't match up with demographics; I'll post more on that later.

But equaling out the classes?  I'd say yes to arty and lights, but no to the other three; heavies meds and TDs don't need evening.

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6 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

This last week has seen so many Grille 15's (does it have a unique MM weight? As there always seems to be an even number on each side)

The current MM attempts to match identical tanks, separately from MM weight. If you have three solo E-100s in a game, it'll almost always split them 2-1. Platoons mess it up occasionally, but the rule appears to have pretty high priority.

At last count, the only tier 10 tank with unique MM weight was the Centurion AX, but they finally pulled the MM weights from the client in 9.15. I'd need to use the old method to determine the Grille's weight.

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2 minutes ago, RichardNixon said:

The current MM attempts to match identical tanks, separately from MM weight. If you have three solo E-100s in a game, it'll almost always split them 2-1. Platoons mess it up occasionally, but the rule appears to have pretty high priority.

At last count, the only tier 10 tank with unique MM weight was the Centurion AX, but they finally pulled the MM weights from the client in 9.15. I'd need to use the old method to determine the Grille's weight.

I wasn't aware it had special mm (the cent AX) how is it differently weighted?

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Just now, Curo said:

I wasn't aware it had special mm (the cent AX) how is it differently weighted?

100 rather than 120. Probably won't make much difference in tier 11 battles, but in tier 10 battles you're likely to get an extra tier 9 instead of a tier 8. Pushes up the overall winrate by 1.5-2%.

It's probably accidental. I suspect they just forgot to add the CAX to the list when switching it for the 4202.

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4 minutes ago, RichardNixon said:

100 rather than 120. Probably won't make much difference in tier 11 battles, but in tier 10 battles you're likely to get an extra tier 9 instead of a tier 8. Pushes up the overall winrate by 1.5-2%.

It's probably accidental. I suspect they just forgot to add the CAX to the list when switching it for the 4202.

huh neat, your right it seems like an oversight, seeing as in the current meta, its likely better than the Leo, and on par or with the AMX/STB

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I wonder how they will try to work this into the low tiers.  Tier 1 - all tier 1.  Tier 2: 5-10 split.  Tier 3: full 3-5-7 mm.  They could just flip this for high tier games.  Tier 10: 3-5-7, Tier 11: 5-10, Tier 12: all tier X. 

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Why can't they just fix how the tanks are distributed. I mean ffs, yesterday I had a match where the enemy team got four Grilles and we got type 5's and the like. Not shockingly the end game came, two of the grilles were still alive cause they camped, and finished off our heavies. Why the hell didn't we get two grilles and they get two grilles? Why do I still get matches on Pilsen (for example) where my team gets a 50B and a Tiger II as our heavies, while the other team gets 6-7 heavies, three to four of which are tier X. wtf WG.

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Recent random-battle tier popularity, for a reference point:

tier EU battles RU battles
1 109873 65921
2 243327 185226
3 501951 518315
4 540140 516727
5 1073289 1214337
6 1296113 1541622
7 1173442 1862024
8 1469285 2658606
9 686133 1120074
10 564966 965834

Roughly 15-20% of tier 8 battles are currently played in pref-MM tanks, so the tier 10 vs 8 ratio isn't too bad but there aren't anywhere near enough tier 9s. They might be able to fix that with incentives.

Low tiers are hopeless though, especially the tier 4-5 gap. Needs bots.

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19 minutes ago, RichardNixon said:

Recent random-battle tier popularity, for a reference point:

tier EU battles RU battles
1 109873 65921
2 243327 185226
3 501951 518315
4 540140 516727
5 1073289 1214337
6 1296113 1541622
7 1173442 1862024
8 1469285 2658606
9 686133 1120074
10 564966 965834

Roughly 15-20% of tier 8 battles are currently played in pref-MM tanks, so the tier 10 vs 8 ratio isn't too bad but there aren't anywhere near enough tier 9s. They might be able to fix that with incentives.

Low tiers are hopeless though, especially the tier 4-5 gap. Needs bots.

I can see the tier 9-10 gap beiing closed by making tier 10 a bit more expensive to play or by simply nerfing a lot of tier 10 tanks (many can need a nerf anyway) if the power gap between tier 9 and 10 becomes closer there is little reason to play tier 10 (especially if tier 10 is more expensive to run).

bringing BT-12 back, so tier 10 can fight tier 10 might also work (as suggested above)

ps: or add a game mode only for tier 10 tanks, so people are drawn to that,

ps ps: and tier 4-5 is impossible to fix, tier 4 is just awefull, even if i would be top tier all the time i wouldnt play it, i guess the only way to make it ``better`` is to greatly increase the credit gain, so free 2 play people will play more tier 4 (and otherwise bots, many ppl are worse as bots anyway)

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This is a retarded idea that won't fix shit. For all people bitch about lineups being imbalanced, that's not what creates bad games. Could you tweak it to avoid the annoying but merely anecdotal games? Sure. But what creates wipeouts is shit play and the lack of a respawn mechanic leading to snowball effects. Neither one of those is ever going away without violently upsetting the things that make WoT unique. Changing team composition will not change anyone's pub experience a damn bit, except for fucking the NA queue beyond belief.

Worse, every game will become a carbon copy. Even if you get shit on once in a while, the incredible diversity of tank and map combinations means you'll almost never see the same pub match twice outside of tier 1. Cookie-cutter teams ruins that. 

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1 hour ago, Korb3n_Dallas said:

Why can't they just fix how the tanks are distributed.

I enjoy when the games have mismatched numbers of classes. It makes the gameplay more dynamic. You actually have to look at the composition of both teams to determine where your team has the best chance of succeeding. You don't just go to the same place every time simply because it is a heavy/medium etc.

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9 minutes ago, HairlesMonkyBoy said:

I enjoy when the games have mismatched numbers of classes. It makes the gameplay more dynamic. You actually have to look at the composition of both teams to determine where your team has the best chance of succeeding. You don't just go to the same place every time simply because it is a heavy/medium etc.

IDK, with the amount of bad players (IE, I know a bunch of meds could win this engagement, but all my med players are orange potatos), plus the corridor heavy meta, getting a team with 1/3rd or less of a particular class doesn't feel really balanced.

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Just now, Korb3n_Dallas said:

IDK, with the amount of bad players (IE, I know a bunch of meds could win this engagement, but all my med players are orange potatos)

Fair enough. But when I see that there is an imbalance, I try to make my potatoes aware of it. I find that they listen to me often enough.

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Just now, HairlesMonkyBoy said:

Fair enough. But when I see that there is an imbalance, I try to make my potatoes aware of it. I find that they listen to me often enough.

You got that pubbie whisperer skill. I find it is usually a race to see who can die the fastest while dealing the least amount of damage.

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8 minutes ago, Korb3n_Dallas said:

IDK, with the amount of bad players (IE, I know a bunch of meds could win this engagement, but all my med players are orange potatos), plus the corridor heavy meta, getting a team with 1/3rd or less of a particular class doesn't feel really balanced.

Fix the fucking maps then, as has been requested since almost a decade by this point and buff/nerf what needs buffing and nerfing, especially when it comes to the tier-gaps. You actually want team-imbalances to happen, to keep the game non-static. Of course the complete bullshit battles would still be happening (one side no scout, while having all TDs and such shit), but that is a freak outlyer that can be prevented from happening, by an algorithm, if you really want it.

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1 minute ago, Korb3n_Dallas said:

IDK, with the amount of bad players (IE, I know a bunch of meds could win this engagement, but all my med players are orange potatos), plus the corridor heavy meta, getting a team with 1/3rd or less of a particular class doesn't feel really balanced.

Well, it's certainly a balance issue at tiers 7 & 8, where class balance sucks and a team with a big advantage in heavy tanks is very likely to win. Tiers 9 & 10 aren't too bad.

Mirror teams probably won't be that boring in practice due to map channels. Even if both teams have equal heavy counts, there will be local differences. It does makes roster analysis much less interesting though.

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1 minute ago, RichardNixon said:

Well, it's certainly a balance issue at tiers 7 & 8, where class balance sucks and a team with a big advantage in heavy tanks is very likely to win. Tiers 9 & 10 aren't too bad.

Mirror teams probably won't be that boring in practice due to map channels. Even if both teams have equal heavy counts, there will be local differences. It does makes roster analysis much less interesting though.

Well, it doesn't have to be a mirror. Had a match where my platoon of lights got into a match where the enemy team didn't have any lights at all. wtf

3 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Fix the fucking maps, as has been requested since decades by this point and buff/nerf what needs buffing and nerfing, especially when it comes to the tier-gaps. You actually want team-imbalances to happen, to keep the game non-static. Of course the complete bullshit battles are happening (one side no scout, wile having all TDs and such shit), but that is a freak outlyer that can be prevented from happening, by an algorithm, if you really want it.

The maps are pissing me off more and more lately. Especially when I started thinking the other day about all the maps we have lost in the last 1-2 years. It's making the game very stale.

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1 minute ago, Korb3n_Dallas said:

The maps are pissing me off more and more lately. Especially when I started thinking the other day about all the maps we have lost in the last 1-2 years. It's making the game very stale.

Yeah, I'd really like to have some if not all of those maps back. Probably not a popular opinion, though.

The other thing that is upsetting me, is that they keep on introducing and then removing cheeky spots where only fast tanks can climb to. Mountain Pass is a good example.

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16 minutes ago, HairlesMonkyBoy said:

Yeah, I'd really like to have some if not all of those maps back. Probably not a popular opinion, though.

The other thing that is upsetting me, is that they keep on introducing and then removing cheeky spots where only fast tanks can climb to. Mountain Pass is a good example.

That feels to me like someone in the map department is sneaking them in like easter eggs, then someone else notices and management is like "blargh, we can't have that!!!".

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3 hours ago, Korb3n_Dallas said:

Well, it doesn't have to be a mirror. Had a match where my platoon of lights got into a match where the enemy team didn't have any lights at all. wtf

The current matchmaker isn't supposed to do that either though. It only happens when it fails to fit some tanks (or platoons) into a game and turns off half the rules. That'll still happen, especially if WG didn't bother hiring any smart people to make the new matchmaker.

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7 hours ago, BoilerBandsman said:

This is a retarded idea that won't fix shit. For all people bitch about lineups being imbalanced, that's not what creates bad games. Could you tweak it to avoid the annoying but merely anecdotal games? Sure. But what creates wipeouts is shit play and the lack of a respawn mechanic leading to snowball effects. Neither one of those is ever going away without violently upsetting the things that make WoT unique. Changing team composition will not change anyone's pub experience a damn bit, except for fucking the NA queue beyond belief.

Worse, every game will become a carbon copy. Even if you get shit on once in a while, the incredible diversity of tank and map combinations means you'll almost never see the same pub match twice outside of tier 1. Cookie-cutter teams ruins that. 

 

7 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

Fix the fucking maps then, as has been requested since almost a decade by this point and buff/nerf what needs buffing and nerfing, especially when it comes to the tier-gaps. You actually want team-imbalances to happen, to keep the game non-static. Of course the complete bullshit battles would still be happening (one side no scout, while having all TDs and such shit), but that is a freak outlyer that can be prevented from happening, by an algorithm, if you really want it.

I agree with most of this.  I can see the appeal of 3-5-7, and I definitely want the teams to have equal tiers, but the idea of mirroring classes seems cookie cutter.

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13 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

 

I agree with most of this.  I can see the appeal of 3-5-7, and I definitely want the teams to have equal tiers, but the idea of mirroring classes seems cookie cutter.

Yeah that wouldn't be good. Should be a small spread at least though. Not one team of mostly heavies vs a team of mostly TD's.

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6 hours ago, Korb3n_Dallas said:

Yeah that wouldn't be good. Should be a small spread at least though. Not one team of mostly heavies vs a team of mostly TD's.

Actually that keeps things interesting.  The problem is that mm weight doesn't change with the map.  A maus has the same weight on himmelsdorf and steppes.

 

if they switch to role MM that will help, and even better if the role has different weight on different maps.  Unfortunately getting the roles and weights right would be very difficult so I don't see that path being very successful.

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