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1 hour ago, no_name_cro said:

Is this the end of the game as we know it? I thought the whole sandbox thing was about being open with the rebalance. I'm probably being overdramatic, but I'm definitely not spending any more money on prems, at least until I have an idea where the game is going.

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Anyone have an ear to the other servers to know how they're taking the proposed changes general direction WG wants to go?

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5 hours ago, hiipanda said:

Question for Sandbox master race. If two arty hit you around the same time does the stun stack?

yes 

i tried tvp .. Got up behind a 140 , got hit by bc arty and 261 . 1 minute stun and then i was killed. If they lower the stun effect to 15 sec not 30 .. Then im ready for it to go live.  Arty has become something so great ive never seen arty being so good.. They do dmg like any other tank in the game. they get bigger splash so it is not impossible to do dmg. I saw a batchat earlier doing 3k dmg. the stun add a really cool way to break through defenses. no more hull down only looking at each other for 10 minutes or unitl arty has shot them to pieces. now they can actually assist their team mates in pushing. a good stun on tanks and people can drive in and get behind the enemy tanks. I don't know why people are complaining so much about the stun and arty. Its never been so perfect. You cant be one shot anymore like any other tank can ammorack you. Which is what people complain about the 2k dmg shot or one shot. which imo is complete bs and why im not touching tier 10 atm. Ive been hit in E100 on sandbox a decent amount of times and I don't mind! Ive never ever been this "oh okay nice hit" by arty. everytime on live server i want to  rip his throat out for being such a lucky ******** ******* ******** .. Yes im green and im not great at the game. But really this change to arty has made people so far much more movable. I saw on mines E4 and Obj 268 actually ran up the hill and began shooting backline (north  line) ive NEVER seen a TD move to hill in the first 14 minutes of the game. 

I have throughourly enjoyed the time on sandbox server so far. WoT is actually fun again. both in arty and in a real tank. I tried t92. I stunned 3 guys and my heavies ran into them like total bosses the second i hit them. we won the flank because of that.. Indeed there are problems on sandbox but remember its only the first version. expect some major changes. dont be sad over the changes just go with it and report to wg what you don't like and do like.

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@Avataren I'd be cautious about making comments on anything now with that NDA in place, even if the info was public earlier.


 

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Wtf why is it NDA? Just because people are complaining all the time? This thing pisses me off more than a buff to arty. WG are a huge bunch of arrogant bastards and retarded too. 

They are just clueless to their own community, to their own game and have no idea of how PR works.

 

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I played a bit on the Sandbox last night.

Things I liked - armour really matters.

When people aren't spewing crazy amounts of gold all over, and when gold isn't even that good - it matters a lot. 

The tanks I tested were the 113, IS-4 and T-62A

The IS-4 felt more powerful than ever. It was like it was back to tier 9 and top tier in the game. Side scraping, armored power house.

113 was quite speedier and the armour felt sturdier somehow, but wasn't that much different, except for its turret traverse being slower. The T-62A was pretty much the same imho.


Stuff I liked:

Arty dealt way lower damage but had this stun thing that reduces your tank stats - making actually playing aggressive an option.

Armour and aiming mattered - oh god! Playing a super-heavy is viable!

Tier Xs earned credits

Stuff I disliked:

A lot of yolo players on sandbox - come on guys...I know it doesn't cost you anything to YOLO but play like you would on a normal server. Had a lot of kamikadzes on both sides, kindda making the game a bit stupider - I guess that's normal for test servers though.

Arty stuns were too long on some classes - it was painful to be stunned for over 30 seconds, that should be adjusted somehow I guess but those are minor tweaks on a better working system.

Turret traverse was REALLY AWFULLY SLOW
I understand why they did it  (so that if a medium or light tank flanks you, you are FORCED to either take the damage or turn your entire tank, making both armour and flanking matter) but this can also be fine tuned, maybe a 20-30% boost would make it a bit more fun, as it was really weird waiting for over 4 seconds for my turret to traverse enough to the left or right so that I could shoot.

Aim was sometimes all over the place. I'd rather have the old-old aiming system than any of the new iterations of the dispersion of the shot in the circle. I understand why it's bad for it to mostly go in the center but it was really painful aiming a shot carefully and having it go in the edge of the circle.


tl;dr - changes were very positive and I had a lot more fun on test server Tier X battles than I do on normal server.

Some things will take some tweaking but I'm generally happy.



PS: WG pls no ban me I <3 ur game Q_Q 

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So, how would you guys balance tier VIII-X better instead of the massive nerfs WG are testing with on sandbox? I don't mean to come off as mad or something, I'm just interested in what your opinions are.

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2 minutes ago, ZXrage said:

So, how would you guys balance tier VIII-X better instead of the massive nerfs WG are testing with on sandbox? I don't mean to come off as mad or something, I'm just interested in what your opinions are.

Note: This all comes from the bits of QBs stream I watched yesterday, so it might not be accurate

Why the massive mobility nerfs on mediums, there is no reason. Nerf gold ammo to make armor more viable and force people to flank, then cripple their ability to flank, way to make heavies even more dominant. Like fuck, the BC goes 50, most mediums 45...

There is no reason whatsoever to nerf aiming again, making it even more RNG. If they do absolutely need to change the distribution do it like AW and buff base accuracy by a huge amount across the board.

Why nerf long range engagements so hard, there was never a need for that.

Some changes are definitely positive, but I don't think there was a need to make heavies the dominant class.

Arty change is a good thing, prem ammo nerf is a good thing, trying to make tanks more diverse is a good thing, making scouts actually useful, but wow, did they fuck it up with retarded changes in between all of that.

And in terms of balance between tiers, the gaps need to be made smaller or MM changed, not made even more useless against higher tiers.

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43 minutes ago, ZXrage said:

So, how would you guys balance tier VIII-X better instead of the massive nerfs WG are testing with on sandbox? I don't mean to come off as mad or something, I'm just interested in what your opinions are.

As a first pass:

  • Lower the damage-spread by caliber, with 650 being the cut-off (scale lower calber guns accordingly), compensate by RoF-boost.
  • Lower global view-range to be 380 on the best non-lights and 420 on the best lights.
  • Lower max artillery damage to ~650 on HE penetration (scale the other arties accordingly by caliber), compensate DPM by RoF-boost, increase accuracy, increase splash radius, add stunning/debuff-effect, if the debuff prooves too strong a combination with damage, then lower damage potential step by step, don't forget to boost XP-income to compensate.
  • In regard to artillery in particular, I'd like to see a re-work of the splash-mechanics (so you don't deal zero damage when you shoot right next to a target with a 5m splash-radius) and an inversion of the accuracy-scaling (the closer you are, the less accurate the arty fires, the further away, the more accurate it is)
  • Remove Gold Ammo. Seriously. This is the single best thing you can do, to give armor a kickstart.
  • After having removed gold, see how the game changes and reintroduce gold ammo with special properties, e.g. APCR high pen and shell velocity, low damage; HEAT, high pen, slow shell velocity, regular damage, if spall-liner fitted => consider armor spaced, maybe even lower accuracy when firing HEAT.
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8 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

After having removed gold, see how the game changes and reintroduce gold ammo with special properties, e.g. APCR high pen and shell velocity, low damage; HEAT, high pen, slow shell velocity, regular damage, if spall-liner fitted => consider armor spaced, maybe even lower accuracy when firing HEAT.

 

And now everybody mounts spall liner? Spall is for HE and spalls :D 

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8 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:
  • Remove Gold Ammo. Seriously. This is the single best thing you can do, to give armor a kickstart.

This runs the risk of severely limiting the opportunities of heavy tanks when bottom tier - T32 has 198 AP pen, gl with that in tier 10. Map reworks could possibly increase flanking opportunities for slow tanks too, but if the maps remain untouched, I just don't see how one could get that to work.

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13 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

 

  • Lower max artillery damage to ~650 on HE penetration (scale the other arties accordingly by caliber), compensate DPM by RoF-boost, increase accuracy, increase splash radius, add stunning/debuff-effect, if the debuff prooves too strong a combination with damage, then lower damage potential step by step, don't forget to boost XP-income to compensate.
  • Remove Gold Ammo. Seriously. This is the single best thing you can do, to give armor a kickstart.

Nononononononono, and no. Removing gold (technically removed from sandbox, no one wants to use it because it costs gold) and making arty to deal almost no damage on superheavies makes Type 5 Heavy and Maus extremely OP tanks. 1250 dmg T92 does only 200 - 500 to Maus/Type 5 from DIRECT hit, so lowering it even further means that those tanks are practically immune to arties when they mount SHSL. And with corridor meta these days, tell me, how you counter Maus/Type 5 Heavy? Ofc reworking corridor maps would be first step but with current maps removing gold and making arty to deal no dmg to these tanks is nononononononono. Not to mention Maus/Type 5 has absolutely gigantic HP pool aswell, and with reduced damage they are nearly unkillable if used right. You got into its side to finally pen it? Good luck, it takes more than minute to kill one assuming every shot pens, and both of them got DPM buff (type 5 didnt even get alpha nerf), so... Only thing that can properly counter them is FV 183 with HESH (normal sniping TDs cant beat them in many maps, as they have 2x less HP and crappy DPM)... which is something that NO ONE wants to became popular.

Your suggestions are not bad, but as long as corridor maps stay, no, especially big no to removing gold ammo.

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Just completely terrible IMO, I'll just re-post what I put on the main forums, because it's long and ranty -

Seriously do they even play the game?

 

Block Quote

 

  • Increase the importance of armour in the game. Currently, armour is significantly less important than speed and firepower. We would like to make armour more relevant in battle.

 

So the absolute ton of vehicles that bounce over 50% of the shots fired at them don't exist then?

 

On Vbaddict there are currently 61 vehicles in game that bounce over 40% of the shots fired at them, is that not enough? If you slightly adjusted premium ammo to have slightly less penetration and less damage than it currently does, then that is all you need, all those vehicles would probably bounce over 60-65% with just those changes. Imagine a Maus for example if most tier 10 HEAT ammo was only around 300 penetration rather than 330-340 and did 25% less damage, that tank instantly becomes better. 

 

How more viable does armour need to be? From this explanation it's almost like you want heavies to be basically invulnerable from the front. 

 

But it gets worse

 

Block Quote

 

  • Reduce the cost of mistakes made by players in battle. We are going to encourage players to fight actively in battle. Increasing the role of armour will allow players to fight, without being afraid of going to the Garage right after being spotted, as to penetrate the tank from a distance will be much harder.

 

So basically make tanks even more forgiving and simple to play?

 

How about not driving out in the open against tanks you can't see? Or is that too hard?

 

Actually reading the map and working out the something is a bad idea and thinking of an alternative strategy, nah fudge that, too hard, press W yolo straight ahead and bounce everything.

 

Great tactical gameplay that. 

 

Block Quote

 

  • Decrease the risk of being focused from afar. Increased armour importance should increase player survivability at far distances, even when focused by several enemies. Covering directions and focusing spotted vehicles will become less effective, because it’ll be harder to penetrate armour at long distances.

 

Exposing your tank in front of multiple enemies is like the first basic skill players should be learning, and you are encouraging people to do this? Or at least allowing them to get away with this far more easily.

 

If you drive out in front of multiple enemies, you deserve to die, not to be bailed out by RNG and baby sitting mechanics. You then learn not to do that next time. 

 

And all those tanks that can't be front line, now can't kill stuff unless they are like 50m from it?

 

Cos apparently we don't have enough close range brawls as it is, we now all have to brawl at close range to do anything.

 

Covering directions and focus fire, is also known as teamwork and reading the map, apparently these things are too OP. 

 

Block Quote

 

  • Decrease combat distance. Long-range clashes should not be the ultimate way to win battles for the majority of vehicles. 

 

What game are you playing? When have long range clashes won battles currently? When? On like 3 maps maybe and that's it.

 

The second statement to me basically says press W, drive at multiple enemies and get away with it.

 

Like every heavy tank will be able regularly drive across the field on Malinovka or down the 1 line on Prohk a la those famous T95 youtube clips, but instead of one off lucky games they want this to be a regular occurrence?

 

Block Quote

 Vehicles should perform certain roles: shielding allies, soaking fire, pushing through the defence, etc.

 

That is all the same role, 'variety' right there. :facepalm:

 

Block Quote

 

  • Increase the gameplay variety. Roles for different types of vehicles should be distinguishable and performing them should make the battles more diverse. When choosing a different class of vehicles, you should also be choosing a new distinct style of gameplay.

 

So yeh great, have fun in a crap team with your limited tank unable to adapt to the game or do something else for the team if the other tank's don't do their role. 

 

Scout just yolo'ed to his death in the first minute, gg team is blind.

 

E100 player, despite being basically immune under these changes is camping in base, great no one else can do any tanking for the team. 

 

What happened to players choosing their playstyle? thinking outside the box? having the ability to be flexible? 

 

Why shoehorn people into specific roles? Where is the fun in that?, the game is already massively frustrating at times because often the 14 people on your team are almost a bigger hindrance to you than the enemy are. So now you are even more helpless to do anything about it because your tank can only play one role. 

 

Block Quote

 

Distribution of hits within the aiming circle

The goal is to decrease the effective firing distance, in order to increase vehicle survivability when being focused from far distances. 

 

Yay! more accuracy RNG, just what everyone wanted right? Cos everyone loves missing shots.

 

Oh wait, it;s also another push for us to brawl at point blank range. 

 

Sorry why are we having 'sniper' roles when these snipers can't pen (because you've reduced all the penetrations and reduced their pen at range) and hit stuff unless they are 50m away? 

 

Block Quote

 Players will now have to aim their shots more carefully.

 

Wait what? No, players aiming more carefully will now be punished more because fully aimed shots will go all over the shop. 

 

Block Quote

 Since it is planned to increase the survivability/ time spent in battle, fast vehicles featuring poor armour will also be improved. It was decided to determine the relation between suspension speed and turret traverse speed for each vehicle type within the class and role systems. As a result, fast vehicles will be able to use different manoeuvres to outflank slow, heavy-armoured vehicles.

 

Oh well that's good then, once the E100 has driven across the field in the open bouncing all the shots, anything actually left alive might be able to circle it.

 

Again encouraging close range engagements. 

 

Also how come tanks like the Cent AX are now much slower and less agile? it's hardly an armoured behemoth but now it goes as fast as an E5 currently does, where is it's extra mobility to compensate for it's poor armour? 

 

Block Quote

 Currently, all vehicle types can perform different roles. I.e., vehicles of each type (except for SPGs and some light tanks) can perform multiple roles effectively. Thus, players use similar tactics when driving different types of vehicles, which makes the gameplay monotonous. The improvements listed below are supposed to diversify the vehicles in the game, according to their roles, and depending on the functions they perform. 

 

I think having to play your tank in the exact same way, every game ,is definition of monotonous. 

 

Having some versatility and adding player ability to think of different approaches and tactics brings diversity to gameplay.

 

Having tanks that can only really do one thing brings uniformity and makes playing a vehicle boring. 

 

Block Quote

 Seven in-game archetype roles have been distinguished on the basis of expertevaluation. 

 

'expert' yes clearly experts, experts that I can only presume have never played WOTs in their life. 

 

Block Quote

 

  • Improved gameplay experience. The changes to armour penetration at a distance will encourage players to put in more effort if victory is to be achieved.

 

Or will encourage players to drive heavy tanks and brawl at less than 50M.

 

I mean how many different ways do you need to say 'make armour idiot proof', 'only play heavy tanks' 'only fight close range brawls', because that is what these changes basically are.

 

As far as I can tell, they have made the changes for this guy -

 

http://forum.worldof...e-e-100-driver/

 

I cannot see much hope if this is the direction they are taking the game, seems a massive dumbing down of the game to me.

 

A massive change to gameplay that on base level is clearly well liked by most otherwise there wouldn't be so many playing. 

 

Rather than fixing the obvious problems with the game like arty, maps, premium ammo etc. 

 

The only real positive things I've seen so far are the premium ammo doing less damage and the arty having lower HE pen, that's about it, every other change is complete garbage IMO. 

 

 

 

Also if someone could tell me what role a 38kph, unagile, unarmoured, with 340 alpha, RNG accuracy influenced, no pen at range Centurion Action X is supposed to play that would be nice.

 

It can't kill anything at medium to long range because of huge pen loss over distance and RNG accuracy.,

 

It's too slow to close the distance and circle anything

 

And it can't fight at close range because of low alpha, low agility and no armour.

 

How can they change one of the best balanced, well rounded tier 10s into a useless pile of crap and think that is a better game?

 

Anyone? 

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I'm not on the Sandbox, but I'm following this topic and reading it all.

 

It looks to me that WG is not playing their game at all. They are crunching numbers only, and what it seems is that they do something similar to this:

 

  • Select group of bads, that has low win rate (like 50% of the player base)
  • What is the preferred tank class of these players? (Heavy tank)
  • Why is their win rate low? (they can't do shit, they die by doing one or two shots worth of dmg the most)
  • How they die in most cases? (they get rekt from a far, because they RRRd on the Malinovka field, and can't figure out basic view/spotting mechanics)

conclusions and "solutions":

  1. long range engagements are the primary goal of frustrations for majority of the players. NERF accuracy! increase pen loss over range
  2. they can't use their armor properly. - NERF penetration (again increase pen loss over range)
  3. They get rekt because they are outspotted - NERF view range to everything that isn't a specialized class for it, that maybe 2% of the player base actually know to play, the rest 98% dies within first 2 minutes of the match.

gg. our bads will not be so bad anymore.

 

Good players are punished, but again, those are minority, and don't bring as much monies.

 

Profit.

 

Even if the top 5% of the players completely abandons game, I think in the long run it will pay off for WG, since more bads will continue playing, and paying, and it will attract a lot of new players.

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Repeatable sentence:

Nothing happening in the SB is said to be the direct future.

<rant>

Putting NDA makes sense for now because the majority of the people just can't stop assuming "Dis, da fillchur." and whine on the slightest placeholder stats. We can have one week of this set of stats and new week whatever they want, now imagine the amount of salt on forums without NDA.

No offence, but if such -might not be future- changes annoy much, I kindly suggest a paradise, live server.

-Not going to add further comment.

</rant>

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12 minutes ago, 3MAJ86 said:

I'm not on the Sandbox, but I'm following this topic and reading it all.

 

It looks to me that WG is not playing their game at all. They are crunching numbers only, and what it seems is that they do something similar to this:

 

  • Select group of bads, that has low win rate (like 50% of the player base)
  • What is the preferred tank class of these players? (Heavy tank)
  • Why is their win rate low? (they can't do shit, they die by doing one or two shots worth of dmg the most)
  • How they die in most cases? (they get rekt from a far, because they RRRd on the Malinovka field, and can't figure out basic view/spotting mechanics)

conclusions and "solutions":

  1. long range engagements are the primary goal of frustrations for majority of the players. NERF accuracy! increase pen loss over range
  2. they can't use their armor properly. - NERF penetration (again increase pen loss over range)
  3. They get rekt because they are outspotted - NERF view range to everything that isn't a specialized class for it, that maybe 2% of the player base actually know to play, the rest 98% dies within first 2 minutes of the match.

gg. our bads will not be so bad anymore.

 

Good players are punished, but again, those are minority, and don't bring as much monies.

 

Profit.

 

Even if the top 5% of the players completely abandons game, I think in the long run it will pay off for WG, since more bads will continue playing, and paying, and it will attract a lot of new players.

No, if game dynamics change, good players adjust their game-style and tank selection to it, thats why they are good. If heavies are new masterrace, then good players use them. Good players will stay good whatever WG does.

Also, WG should not listen players too much, neither good nor all players. Players rarely know what is really good for game even though they thing they know.

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Just now, sahtila said:

No, if game dynamics change, good players adjust their game-style and tank selection to it, thats why they are good. If heavies are new masterrace, then good players use them. Good players will stay good whatever WG does.

Also, WG should not listen players too much, neither good nor all players. Players rarely know what is really good for game even though they thing they know.

Problem is they want to fuck everything just for the sake of saying "Wow, we really did change the game" but from the current information some tanks seem like total trash now and everything seems weird as fuck to me, like a completely new game. 

 

What they should of done in my opinion:

  • Nerf arty like it's right now on Sandbox w/o stun bullshit
  • Improved MM a bit
  • Make it so that XVM can't work anymore,like for example in rampage you couldn't see enemy stats so I know it's possible to do that

That's all I need personally. Don't fuck the whole game where only 2~3 things needs to be fixed.

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1 hour ago, breeeze said:

.

And in terms of balance between tiers, the gaps need to be made smaller or MM changed, not made even more useless against higher tiers.

This is probably the biggest problem the game has.  They should take a long look at the math in the game with hit points vs. avg. damage at each tier.  There's a reason that nobody likes to play low tier tanks and its mostly due to them being useless when bottom tier and their lack of durability even against their own tier. 

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1 hour ago, sahtila said:

No, if game dynamics change, good players adjust their game-style and tank selection to it, thats why they are good. If heavies are new masterrace, then good players use them. Good players will stay good whatever WG does.

If you dumb down the game too much (and these changes look like it), then skill ceiling is too low, and good players simply don't have too much room to be better than others. Take view mechanics for example. It is not very simple, and a lot of players simply don't understand it. While good players understand it and abused it for a long time.

 

What did WG do? Made majority of the maps as corridors and poured agent orange on most of the maps to reduce the effectivenes of good spotters.

 

There are more examples of this.

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2 hours ago, Unavailebow said:

Repeatable sentence:

Nothing happening in the SB is said to be the direct future.

<rant>

Putting NDA makes sense for now because the majority of the people just can't stop assuming "Dis, da fillchur." and whine on the slightest placeholder stats. We can have one week of this set of stats and new week whatever they want, now imagine the amount of salt on forums without NDA.

No offence, but if such -might not be future- changes annoy much, I kindly suggest a paradise, live server.

-Not going to add further comment.

</rant>

I think most of the people who got upset about the changes on the SB here got upset not because they thought they were reading patch notes, but because they thought they were reading goals. Specifically, most of the negative posts I'm seeing now are about the items WG listed under the heading "goals."

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16 minutes ago, 3MAJ86 said:

If you dumb down the game too much (and these changes look like it), then skill ceiling is too low, and good players simply don't have too much room to be better than others. Take view mechanics for example. It is not very simple, and a lot of players simply don't understand it. While good players understand it and abused it for a long time.

 

What did WG do? Made majority of the maps as corridors and poured agent orange on most of the maps to reduce the effectivenes of good spotters.

 

There are more examples of this.

Good example why game developer should not listen players too much. Armored Warfare did listen and implemented their game with more bushes and more open lines for invisible firing sniping td's/campers. End result lot worse than WoT. That mechanism (invisible firing) is not good for game if its too common or easy to do. Its fine to enable it in bunch of spots in map but bad if its too easy to do everywhere.

Same with corridors, they are absolutely needed for good maps. Though hard part is getting proper amount of them, not too much, not too few. Without corridors we get map like Prokhorova where flanking is literally impossible and gameplay consist of boring long range bush/view range sniping. But its also very true that there is bunch of maps with too many corridors (city maps in general, Tundra etc). That is map design fail and from WG comments they seem to understand it.

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8 minutes ago, Tarski said:

I think most of the people who got upset about the changes on the SB here got upset not because they thought they were reading patch notes, but because they thought they were reading goals. Specifically, most of the negative posts I'm seeing now are about the items WG listed under the heading "goals."

This.

 

It's not the actual changes on the test, we all know they could change, it's the reasons they are giving for these changes.

It reads like a mission statement for a company, done by someone who has no idea what the company does or has done before.

Like the comment about 'long range engagements ultimately shouldn't be the way to win', 

Cos,long range engagements are ruling the game right now, that must be why tanks like the Leopard 1, Panther 2, most Brit tanks etc are the best tanks on their tiers.

Oh wait no they aren't. 

Also as the above stated if you dumb down the game so much there will be nothing to be better at, no mechanics or tools to use, you will be just fighting close range, front on heavy tank brawls and relying on RNG to see who wins. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, tajj7 said:

snip

You said something about view range in there but I can't find it anymore.

Adjusting viewrange is one of the few things I believe are justified, right now scouts are worthless and any medium can do the same job while also having a gun and having some survivability. Lights should have the highest viewrange of all, mediums just behind that capped at like 380ish, heavies up to 350, arty 300 and TDs somewhere in between all of that. It's just retarded that at T10 literally every tank has the same viewrange as a T8 scout. Imo this concept is one of the things Obsidian did right in AW. And if the teams scout is a complete retard then so be it, play accordingly, don't yolo into the open where you're gonna get outspotted.

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38 minutes ago, breeeze said:

You said something about view range in there but I can't find it anymore.

Adjusting viewrange is one of the few things I believe are justified, right now scouts are worthless and any medium can do the same job while also having a gun and having some survivability. Lights should have the highest viewrange of all, mediums just behind that capped at like 380ish, heavies up to 350, arty 300 and TDs somewhere in between all of that. It's just retarded that at T10 literally every tank has the same viewrange as a T8 scout. Imo this concept is one of the things Obsidian did right in AW. And if the teams scout is a complete retard then so be it, play accordingly, don't yolo into the open where you're gonna get outspotted.

Scouts are worthless mainly due to the maps.  Scouts are worth their weight in gold (if played well) on Prok and Malinovka.  Adjusting view ranges won't do a damn bit of good on all the small city maps.

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1 minute ago, lt_lolcat said:

Scouts are worthless mainly due to the maps.  Scouts are worth their weight in gold (if played well) on Prok and Malinovka.  Adjusting view ranges won't do a damn bit of good on all the small city maps.

That goes without saying of course, but I still think scouts should have the highest view range

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