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E4 feels pretty damn solid in the SB enviro. Given its increase in armor effectiveness and the fact that it maintains high (AP at least) pen and damage, the fact that it has 2500hp lets you play assault gun pretty effectively.

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2 hours ago, Trumpetah said:

Ideally they'd ban tier 8 lights from tier 8 CW/stronks and buff tier 7 lights to be equally as good as tier 8 mediums, but this is WG so lol.

:Notsureifserious.jpg:

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You know, I was considering coming back to the game after "Balance 2.0" comes out to try it and see what it would be like. But after reading this thread, fuck that. I'll just buy HOI4 and sick another 1000 hours into Paradox.

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So they have basically changed the 215b back to what it currently was? Who'd have thought that eh? Not like the 215b was balanced before and didn't need changing.

I'm kind of feeling less annoyed about the changes because if they continue at this pace of basically changing everything back barely any of it will have changed.

Do like the 30b now has to have over 300 pen to be competitive, still seems more sensible to dial down the pen loss of range mechanics rather than buff the crap out of individual tanks pen. 

Buffing light tank HP seems a pretty sensible solution to me, though making them the only eyes on the team does not.

Plus more HP won;t help them pen anything at more than 50m. 

 

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1 hour ago, tajj7 said:

...if they continue at this pace of basically changing everything back barely any of it will have changed...

Which they stated was their plan all along. Start extreme, then chip off till you find the equilibrium of newand fresh gameplay that is still recognized as WoT by the playerbase.

And that means all the players but especially the average joe.

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Making light tanks the 'eyes' of the battlefield is great in an ideal world. The reality will be tier 10 game, 1 Lt on each team, other team has a unicum 1390, your team has a sub 500 wn8 t49 that drives straight into the first pond and has himself a drink.

They need to take every account that has less than like 800 wn8 and over say 2k games and just delete them cunts.

Every single fuckin game has bots sitting in spawn, literally not moving. 

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That would remove like half the games population.. Think about how stupid the average person is, then remember that half of everyone is less intelligent than them.

 

 

This round of changes looks good to me though. Nerfed the shit out of the stun time, nerfed the T92 a bit, then buffed a bunch of tanks that need it. They seem to be trying to not jack shit up and actually listened to people by reducing stun times by a solid chunk.

 

I think too many people are just on the hate bandwagon.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Copeyhagen said:

Making light tanks the 'eyes' of the battlefield is great in an ideal world. The reality will be tier 10 game, 1 Lt on each team, other team has a unicum 1390, your team has a sub 500 wn8 t49 that drives straight into the first pond and has himself a drink.

They need to take every account that has less than like 800 wn8 and over say 2k games and just delete them cunts.

Every single fuckin game has bots sitting in spawn, literally not moving. 

I agree, in a ideal world LTs do their job, along with every other tank..

In reality LT drivers are scared of spotting or are not skilled enough to know how to spot in most maps, so they'll camp regardless of nerfs/buffs..

There will always be the retard driving his IS7 in malinovka field..

That's why I want a "pro" league, where I can trust my LT to at least try to spot, where I know that my camping TDs are actually supporting my team..

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11 hours ago, tajj7 said:

So they have basically changed the 215b back to what it currently was? Who'd have thought that eh? Not like the 215b was balanced before and didn't need changing.

I'm kind of feeling less annoyed about the changes because if they continue at this pace of basically changing everything back barely any of it will have changed.

Do like the 30b now has to have over 300 pen to be competitive, still seems more sensible to dial down the pen loss of range mechanics rather than buff the crap out of individual tanks pen. 

Buffing light tank HP seems a pretty sensible solution to me, though making them the only eyes on the team does not.

Plus more HP won;t help them pen anything at more than 50m. 

 

The objective is however to make penetration a balance stat, some have good pen, others bad

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15 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

The objective is however to make penetration a balance stat, some have good pen, others bad

but they have already nerfed shot dispersion and added the idiotic 50m pen drop rule. If you give tanks "bad pen" on top of that, it will be frustration on top of frustration. I wouldn't want to play this. Heck, I can't stand modern WoT, this thing looks way worse. just a slab of RNG to make bads happy.

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1 minute ago, Yuri_Yslin said:

but they have already nerfed shot dispersion and added the idiotic 50m pen drop rule. If you give tanks "bad pen" on top of that, it will be frustration on top of frustration. I wouldn't want to play this. Heck, I can't stand modern WoT, this thing looks way worse. just a slab of RNG to make bads happy.

no, they nerf penetration via penetration drop off, and to offset that, they give some tanks a penetration buff (m48 has 290, Amx 30 also got 290)

WG can ofc also just give E50m 240 pen and M48 260 and dont nerf pen drop, but that means you cant fight close range with an E50m either, not you have close range still the high penetration and long range not (so get close, or flank) while tanks likt eh M48 can still shoot from distance.

The whole accuracy nerf is class wide, heavy tanks and TDs also get bloom nerfs with either base accuracy and/or aim time buffs to off set, heck an Wz-121 or STB have probably better gun handling as they have at this moment on live server...

ps: Imo WG`s reasoning is solid, you can nerf penetration in 3 ways:

  1. Base penetration
  2. Normalisation
  3. Penetration drop off

1: has as disadvantage that you have no penetration both long and short range

2: has as disadvantage that it greatly buffs tanks with sloped armor

3: is thus the best way to nerf penetration, by compensating tanks in other ways E50m mobility buff, STB better aim time, 121 less bloom (?) they stay relevant

People should stop looking at this like a rebalance, sure, the new E50m on live server would be crap, however, the entire meta will be 100% different, you can not look at this as ``nerf / buff``, every single tank and map will play vastly different, its like they add tier 11 or remove arty and gold shells in 1 patch, the changes are that big....

Any kind of ``current STB vs new STB`` comparison is totally irrelevant, its like WG removed all tier 10 tanks and added new ones with the same model, you can also forget about ``role specific nations`` E50m is perhaps now the worst sniper medium... You can thus only compare the new tanks with eachother, so New M48 vs New E50m, M48 gets high pen, some armor, good gun depression and gun handling, E50m gets though UFP, good dpm and high mobility, Obj 140 is a super fast brawler while Amx 30b is an excellent sniper and so on.

Dont judge these rebalance after 10 games or pure from stats, you need to play it, get used to meta changes and get used to the changes...

The only real ``problems`` i forsee are:

  • What when your scout / support tank is a total moron? a idiot in a maus can still tank, an idiot in a 50b or bat chat?
  • What when its not 15 vs 15 tier 10, but only a handfull, a team without super heavys vs a team with only paper mediums, especially combined with the above might be receipe for disaster...

The solution, i think, will be to keep tier 9 a bit more generic, so when you get 3 tier 10 mediums and some E75`s or ST-1s, you still have heavys and so on AND ofc the main reason of the rebalance:

All below average plays should start to play heavys after a few weeks, because believe me, <1k wn8 players wont be able to do anything with half the tier 10 tanks... (an leopard is quite good, but it needs smart play, same an obj 268 when played right is a solid tank, but only if you can use its strengths and avoid its weaknesses...)

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On 15.07.2016 at 2:29 PM, Copeyhagen said:

Making light tanks the 'eyes' of the battlefield is great in an ideal world. The reality will be tier 10 game, 1 Lt on each team, other team has a unicum 1390, your team has a sub 500 wn8 t49 that drives straight into the first pond and has himself a drink.

They need to take every account that has less than like 800 wn8 and over say 2k games and just delete them cunts.

Every single fuckin game has bots sitting in spawn, literally not moving. 

That still happens in the mid triers where the non lights have lower wr. If you are in t6-t8 game with one t7 light on fiery silent you are fucked if your lights are morons. Some meds may fixed that but so many games in my RU heavies were fucked by lack of good scouts there I can't even begin to count them.

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Penetration doesn't need nerfing full stop. Premium penetration does. 

Their logic is simply retarded. 

They say armour isn't worthwhile, fine, highly debatable IMO considering the bounce figures, but whatever.

You go out and gather feedback on what causes issues to most heavies, that would obviously be arty and premium ammo.

You re-balance premium ammo and arty, see how heavy tanks play.

Simple.

You don't change the whole penetration drop off, nerf pen full stop, remove premium ammo for the test (<- ultra stupidity unless you are going to remove it live) and change accuracy, to tweak one issue. 

At a base level the game works, it always has, there are thousands upon thousands of players playing every day playing their favourite tanks on maps they have played thousands of times, they don't do that if your core gameplay is crap.

You do not need to re-design the wheel, you need to re-design the fuck ups like like artillery that have been throwing sticks in the spokes for years.

I watched Deaitch or whatever his name is the other day on his sandbox stream, it was just a giant face palm the whole time, as he just RRR'd down the 1 line on Prohk in the Maus. Drove into a cross fire, with 3 or 4 tier 10 tanks shooting at his unangled side and he took no damage, literally none, they were bouncing of his arse because he got so far forward. At one point an E100 flanked in behind him and he pretty much ignored him until the point the E100 had to switch to spamming HE. 

It was the kind of play that should get you killed very quickly, the kind of stupid play 200 WN8 players do, except he 100% completely got away with it and won the flank. 

Or the bit where he was telling everyone how meds were fine now, even though he was playing the Leopard and bouncing or missing every shot, even off a T-54 light at like 200m and couldn't pen barely anything until he got behind an E3.

Even with the updates most of these changes are ill-thought out, they are fixing problems they have created themselves, problems that previously never existed.  

Arty re-balance is at least something, but where is the counter mechanism? The alternative shells? The warning? They've had like 18 months to think about arty re-balance and all they've done is reduce the alpha and introduce a stun. 

Reduce in alpha is good.

Light re-balance, right to do it, but the direction is wrong, too much over reliance on lights will make them basically OP or useless depending on the map they get. Having 100m more view range than anything else is going to matter little on Stalingrad or Abbey or Mountain Pass. Tanks shouldn't work on extremes that is not fun for players.  I also do not understand how they can on the one hand re-balance lights whilst also telling us they are doing tier 9 and 10 lights. 

Premium ammo changes seem sensible but why make them only available for gold? Surely this needs testing?

Penetration over distance changes, horrible, forcing people to fight over 50m or less is not good gameplay. Letting horrible mistakes and misplays go unpunished, not allowing even flanking shots to damage most heavies is completely against even basic rock/paper/scissors balance. 

Accuracy RNG changes, horrible and totally needed, I cannot see any justification for this. Just creating more frustration for players, the game needs less RNG, not more. 

The specific roles and the huge mobility nerfs to heavies, and the latter gun handling/DPM nerfs to heavies, again to me this is making tanks of extremes - OP in one situation weak in most others, too team dependent, too map and MM reliant. All of that is just a recipe for player frustration, you are taking away versatility, flexibility and the ability for a player to think and too discover a playstyle for tank, Instead you are pretty much shoehorned into play a certain way whatever tank you chose.

Overall the direction they want to go is not World of Tanks, it's World of Dumb heavy tanks brawling.

 

Quote

All below average plays should start to play heavys after a few weeks, because believe me, <1k wn8 players wont be able to do anything with half the tier 10 tanks... (an leopard is quite good, but it needs smart play, same an obj 268 when played right is a solid tank, but only if you can use its strengths and avoid its weaknesses...)

I'm failing to see how this is a good thing. 

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Hm, I don't know about you but I almost never used prem on my tier IX and X meds and used nothing but prem on E100 or IS-7. So only changing prem is certainly not doing much at tier X.

The real problem starts when you throw tier VIII into tier X battles after you nerfed the pen of them all.

The main reason why I stopped playing is the sheer amount of bottom tier battles in anything tier VI to VIII and the retarded powerlessness that ensues, especially when playing without top gun.

With their current changes I don't see how this is lessened in any way. The incentive to play tier X (or tier IX) and nothing else will be even bigger after these changes. This in turn means that grinding your tier Vi-VIII tanks will feel even more shitty.

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They did say that they are balancing first "horizontally", and then it will be "vertical" balance as well.

 

Maybe they have something interesting up in their sleeve...

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1 hour ago, Jaegaer said:

Hm, I don't know about you but I almost never used prem on my tier IX and X meds and used nothing but prem on E100 or IS-7. So only changing prem is certainly not doing much at tier X.

The real problem starts when you throw tier VIII into tier X battles after you nerfed the pen of them all.

The main reason why I stopped playing is the sheer amount of bottom tier battles in anything tier VI to VIII and the retarded powerlessness that ensues, especially when playing without top gun.

With their current changes I don't see how this is lessened in any way. The incentive to play tier X (or tier IX) and nothing else will be even bigger after these changes. This in turn means that grinding your tier Vi-VIII tanks will feel even more shitty.

Being -2 will get even worse if the 3-5-7 system gets in + sandbox changes because you are basically relying on 3 top tier tanks, with the rest as make weights.

If you do 3 man tier 9 platoons now, very regularly you will get games where you are all the top tier tanks, it's generally easy mode in that situation.

Add sandbox changes, tanks like the E-75 or ST-I when only one of 3 tier 9s facing 50% of the team of tier 7s with gimped premium rounds and gimped accuracy. Yeh GG, all you'll have to do is beat your opposite number and you've won the game as you'll be able to steamroller the other 12 tanks. 

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3 hours ago, tajj7 said:

I watched Deaitch or whatever his name is the other day on his sandbox stream, it was just a giant face palm the whole time, as he just RRR'd down the 1 line on Prohk in the Maus. Drove into a cross fire, with 3 or 4 tier 10 tanks shooting at his unangled side and he took no damage, literally none, they were bouncing of his arse because he got so far forward. At one point an E100 flanked in behind him and he pretty much ignored him until the point the E100 had to switch to spamming HE. 

 

U just made me want to play the MAUS just to get that map. 

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51 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Being -2 will get even worse if the 3-5-7 system gets in + sandbox changes because you are basically relying on 3 top tier tanks, with the rest as make weights.

I don't know. I MUCH rather be a tier VIII tank in a battle with only three tier X tanks per team than 7 tier X tanks. So the idea is sound, I just don't see how WG will be able to implement it. The pyramid is on it's head (especially if you platoon late vening - being bottom tier 10 out of 10 games is pretty common for me - luckily STA-1 is such a beast... not).

51 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Yeh GG, all you'll have to do is beat your opposite number and you've won the game

WG really needs to buff pen and hitpoints of lower tier tanks for a more linear progression. Inciting prgression is nice but nowadays there is zero reason why you should be handicapped so very much in a tier VIII vs a tier IX.

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On 7/15/2016 at 8:29 AM, Copeyhagen said:

They need to take every account that has less than like 800 wn8 and over say 2k games and just delete them cunts.

Average is right about 800 Wn8, so... GG WG is completely dead and there is no one playing

Anyway:

Do away with the pen decrease via distance. Rebalance penetration on a linear slope for standard rounds (T44 has 180, T54 has 200, Obj 140/62A has 220) with HEAT having an increase of +25% pen (275 HEAT) for a -15% DPM (if 3k DPM, firing HEAT its 2550)

Holy shit you have balanced APCR/HEAT for RU MTs

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https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2016/06/08/sandbox-leak/#more-24351

Here's what probably happened. Look at those original leaked shell numbers that got some of us excited before they disappeared fast. Basically the same numbers as test except less damage on the gold rounds. At the time the numbers seemed odd, but in the context of the pen drops and a big drop in the cost of the shells they make sense. Their original idea was to change "gold" ammo to more standard costs and be integrated into the game as an equal option like we've been telling them to do for years. That way you'd still have extra pen when needed but there would be a damage cost, and the need for HEAT at range would reduce range engagement damage output rates without killing it. You'd use AP for soft targets, close range flanking, and tracking shots, HEAT for long range and really heavy armor, and HE for always doing damage.

But then it got changed before the first test. Most likely some MBA prick saw it and said "no way" because god forbid the P2W model be threatened. Some other reason? So instead of following the basic sandbox theme of reducing damage output across the board it made range fire a joke unless you spam gold because the AP rounds were never meant to do damage at range. The entire design package would have worked, but one vital gear got yanked out and screwed it all up.

So now if the basic theme of SB goes live you're going to get World of Gold Ammo 2.0: The Goldening because the game has officially been split into "gold" or "gtfo" due to range pen drops alongside an overall decrease in pen. On many tanks you're wasting your time bringing anything but gold into a game now, the gap in effectiveness is higher than ever. Part of why it seems like an unintentional mess is the inconsistency, you can roll an E-100 with nothing but AP and HE and have the same impact on games as a pure gold "support" tank. Gain a few thousand credits or lose 50k a game, I wonder which tank will be played more?

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6 hours ago, tajj7 said:

I watched Deaitch or whatever his name is the other day on his sandbox stream, it was just a giant face palm the whole time, as he just RRR'd down the 1 line on Prohk in the Maus. Drove into a cross fire, with 3 or 4 tier 10 tanks shooting at his unangled side and he took no damage, literally none, they were bouncing of his arse because he got so far forward. At one point an E100 flanked in behind him and he pretty much ignored him until the point the E100 had to switch to spamming HE. 

It was the kind of play that should get you killed very quickly, the kind of stupid play 200 WN8 players do, except he 100% completely got away with it and won the flank. 

Or the bit where he was telling everyone how meds were fine now, even though he was playing the Leopard and bouncing or missing every shot, even off a T-54 light at like 200m and couldn't pen barely anything until he got behind an E3.

1: A unangled maus is an easy kill, if the E100 cant kill him, hes a fucking moron, i can kill maus head on with AP easy-peasy

2: L2p issue`s, if you cant penetrate heavys from the side with a medium you play bad and should feel bad, only a maus and E100 had side armor, and thats it, IS7 has large parts 100mm, and rest is bs (like it is on live server...) IS4 has 160mm, which is only good when angled and the rest? 100mm at most, perhaps 120

The whole purpose of the maus should be: R-r-r and kill anyone too stupid to shoot weakspots or flank, that the maus was no longer capable of doing so was stupid, WG is now restoring balance...

Same most mediums can no longer sit redline and snipe, if you wanna snipe, play an Obj 268 or Amx-30, dont use an T62. Tanks have ``roles``, and this is good, so tier 10 tanks are now different, like how tier 9 tanks are different (and on every map every role is present, again l2p)

This whole rebalance is a massive meta shift, and it greatly rewards skill, good player adapt and (ab)use the new strengths and weaknesses, all those easy mode boring generic all-round tanks should have been nerf-raped long ago, and its about time WG finally does. Skill is using a tank with limited capabilities and win games with it, winning with an ISU is skill, with an IS3 is not...

There are enourmous amount of so called ``unicums`` who are no unicum, they are gold-spamming statpadders, and this rebalance will show it, pls show me your skill when your driving an Obj 268 on Ensk or an Leopard or Himmelsdorf,  im quite sure i can pull my weight, but given all the complains on official forum, reddit and also here, it seems many ``good players`` are not that good afterall (when they cant gold spam, redline camp and (ab)use the fotm OP tank)...

 

3 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Being -2 will get even worse if the 3-5-7 system gets in + sandbox changes because you are basically relying on 3 top tier tanks, with the rest as make weights.

If you do 3 man tier 9 platoons now, very regularly you will get games where you are all the top tier tanks, it's generally easy mode in that situation.

Add sandbox changes, tanks like the E-75 or ST-I when only one of 3 tier 9s facing 50% of the team of tier 7s with gimped premium rounds and gimped accuracy. Yeh GG, all you'll have to do is beat your opposite number and you've won the game as you'll be able to steamroller the other 12 tanks. 

Its the other way around, when there are 7 tanks of the same tier, half the tanks in the other team is equal to you, it will greatly increase performance when bottom tier, no more games with 6 tier 10, 5 tier 9 and 4 tier 8, where you are nicely bottom with your tier 8...

WG also wont touch the penetration of tier 7/8 tanks, so not much will change their, the penetration drop is shell specific, i assume they will nerf a few outliers with very high AP pen, but thats it, tier 8 tanks are now capable of hitting tier 10 tanks, and due to mobility and alpha dmg nerfs they will far even better.

Sandbox will decrease the gap between tier 8 and 10

Platoons do require rework, but WG can always do the following:

  • Ban arty platoons (they hinted on that already)
  • Ban scout platoons
  • Give platoons worse mm, this was also the case in beta, platoons already give more exp, so perhaps this was a first step, platoon gives more exp and harder matches (WG however wants to promote platoons, so giving them worse mm migth not be ideal)

and i really, really doubt they will nerf tier 7 or 8 penetration like how they nerfed tier 10, this rebalance is about making the gap between tier 8 and 10 smaller, not bigger...

26 minutes ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2016/06/08/sandbox-leak/#more-24351

Here's what probably happened. Look at those original leaked shell numbers that got some of us excited before they disappeared fast. Basically the same numbers as test except less damage on the gold rounds. At the time the numbers seemed odd, but in the context of the pen drops and a big drop in the cost of the shells they make sense. Their original idea was to change "gold" ammo to more standard costs and be integrated into the game as an equal option like we've been telling them to do for years. That way you'd still have extra pen when needed but there would be a damage cost, and the need for HEAT at range would reduce range engagement damage output rates without killing it. You'd use AP for soft targets, close range flanking, and tracking shots, HEAT for long range and really heavy armor, and HE for always doing damage.

But then it got changed before the first test. Most likely some MBA prick saw it and said "no way" because god forbid the P2W model be threatened. Some other reason? So instead of following the basic sandbox theme of reducing damage output across the board it made range fire a joke unless you spam gold because the AP rounds were never meant to do full damage at range. The entire design package would have worked, but one vital gear got yanked out and screwed it all up.

So now if the basic theme of SB goes live you're going to get World of Gold Ammo 2.0: The Goldening because the game has officially been split into "gold" or "gtfo" due to range pen drops alongside an overall decrease in pen. On many tanks you're wasting your time bringing anything but gold into a game now, the gap in effectiveness is higher than ever. Part of why it seems like an unintentional mess is the inconsistency, you can roll an E-100 with nothing but AP and HE and have the same impact on games as a pure gold "support" tank. Gain a few thousand credits or lose 50k a game, I wonder which tank will be played more?

I agree, the fact WG un-did the gold ammo damage nerf is ridiculous, however gold ammo got still butchered hard. Atm i shoot almost only HEAT with E100, with sandbox penetration values, i will change to full AP / HE load out, gold ammo is only ``good`` / usefull when you have:

  • Heat
  • Good accuracy
  • significant penetration gap between heat and AP

APCR is awefull, there is almost zero reason to use it, the penetration on range is perhaps 10-20mm higher as AP, while most tanks with HEAT have suchs bad accuracy / bad gun handling that hitting stuff at long range is stupid hard (heat penetration is so low, you can no longer yolo blaze everything you hit and heat still get shafted by spaced armor and so). On close range HEAT has almost no penetration advantage over AP, which makes it almost pointless to use anyway...

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On 7/14/2016 at 11:45 PM, KenadianCSJ said:

You know, I was considering coming back to the game after "Balance 2.0" comes out to try it and see what it would be like. But after reading this thread, fuck that. I'll just buy HOI4 and sick another 1000 hours into Paradox.

The best thing you can do about a decision regarding the changes is make sure you've applied to get into the SB to find out for yourself.  Since there's technically an NDA still over it I'm probably not alone in holding back my thoughts despite seeing so many poorly formed opinions about what's going on on that server out in the open (even from fellow testers, some of whom are making wide sweeping conclusions with all of 21 games played over the last 2 iterations... /sigh).

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1 hour ago, Illy said:

The best thing you can do about a decision regarding the changes is make sure you've applied to get into the SB to find out for yourself.  Since there's technically an NDA still over it I'm probably not alone in holding back my thoughts despite seeing so many poorly formed opinions about what's going on on that server out in the open (even from fellow testers, some of whom are making wide sweeping conclusions with all of 21 games played over the last 2 iterations... /sigh).

Logically you're correct, but I don't feel like I'll be giving it much attention in the future. I haven't played in half a year, the end game is dead on NA and arty will still be in the game after the rebalancing, for better or worse. So in the end the two main things that stopped me playing before, CW 2.0 and arty, are still gonna be there. So I won't hold my breath.

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16 hours ago, TheMarine0341 said:

Average is right about 800 Wn8, so... GG WG is completely dead and there is no one playing

Anyway:

Do away with the pen decrease via distance. Rebalance penetration on a linear slope for standard rounds (T44 has 180, T54 has 200, Obj 140/62A has 220) with HEAT having an increase of +25% pen (275 HEAT) for a -15% DPM (if 3k DPM, firing HEAT its 2550)

Holy shit you have balanced APCR/HEAT for RU MTs

"Dude are u trying to solve the game with one simple way ? only reduce alpha for better pen ? NO this will never work you know nothing (Jon SNOW.. :D ) , WE at wargaming will solve all issue (meaning none) at the same time by rethinking the entire META for no apparent reason"

 

15 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

On close range HEAT has almost no penetration advantage over AP, which makes it almost pointless to use anyway...

Are you saying that if i want to redline snipe i also want to play full HEAT ? Yes please ! :awyeah: Nice balance.  10/10

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