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_Legion_of_Boom_

Gold ammo and rating......

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I am sure the answer to this is NO, and I am probably going to get flamed for it, but...

 

Any chance they will ever put an asterisk (or whatever) next to WN8/WN9 (etc) when that players shoot more than, say, 50% Gold? I normally carry about 6-8 "gold" shells per tank (I pay for them with credits, not "gold"). I generally use them only If I am bottom tier trying to pen top tier heavy. More often than not I don't use them at all, unless I run out of regular. It seems to me, every time I run up against a Unicum or Super Unicum player, they are shooting gold exclusively.

It is part of the game, and that is fine with me, but a player who achieves a WN8 of 2500 while shooting mostly regular shells, is better than one who gets there shooting mostly gold.

Maybe just include Gold shooting % in stats or something?

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No, for several reasons, but mostly because A: its not tracked and cannot be tracked. B: it has less of an influence than people make it out to be, and C: knowing when and where to fire gold is a valid part of being a good player.

Firing pure gold may make a 1K player a 1500 player, it might make a 1500 player a 2K player. But it wont male a 2K player a 2450 player, and it wont make a 2450 player a 2850 player. Mainly because knowing where and how to aim is not a high level skill. Its a basic skill. And by the time you hit 2K (hell, even 1K tbh) knowing how to aim to deal damage isnt what will make you better. What makes you better is positioning and map knowledge. Sure, firing full gold will help, it removes some of the RNG factor from low percentage shots, and allows you to be less precise with your aiming, but the whole high level skill isnt about that, its about putting yourselves into a position where you can get as many shots as possible to deal as much damage as possible. It doesnt matter if you fire full gold, if you go to a stupid position and die with only 2 shots fired. 

This is also the reason why a 500 WN8 player wont become a 1K player by spamming full gold, and why people who are around 1K-1500 who claim that "they could be purple if they only fired gold" are wrong. 

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12 minutes ago, _Legion_of_Boom_ said:

I am sure the answer to this is NO, and I am probably going to get flamed for it, but...

 

Any chance they will ever put an asterisk (or whatever) next to WN8/WN9 (etc) when that players shoot more than, say, 50% Gold? I normally carry about 6-8 "gold" shells per tank (I pay for them with credits, not "gold"). I generally use them only If I am bottom tier trying to pen top tier heavy. More often than not I don't use them at all, unless I run out of regular. It seems to me, every time I run up against a Unicum or Super Unicum player, they are shooting gold exclusively.

It is part of the game, and that is fine with me, but a player who achieves a WN8 of 2500 while shooting mostly regular shells, is better than one who gets there shooting mostly gold.

Maybe just include Gold shooting % in stats or something?

The answer to your question is, in fact, NO.

Using the better round is no less skilled than using the top gun.

Load about 25% gold on almost all tanks.  Some tanks 50%, although you won't usually shoot that much.

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That said, I would bet that anybody's stats would go up if they shot more gold. 

 

It's pointless to argue about it all though, given that that's all about to change soon.

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5 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

No, for several reasons...

Valid points. Thanks. :)

4 minutes ago, UglyBigD said:

That said, I would bet that anybody's stats would go up if they shot more gold. 

 

It's pointless to argue about it all though, given that that's all about to change soon.

How's that? What's changing?

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6 minutes ago, UglyBigD said:

That said, I would bet that anybody's stats would go up if they shot more gold. 

 

It's pointless to argue about it all though, given that that's all about to change soon.

they most likely will go up. but the argument is about how much.

the higher your WN8 is, the less of an increase in WN8 you would see from firing full gold, IMO. I think players in the 1K-1500 WN8 bracket would see the biggest increase from firing full gold. 

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For one, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there is any way to get that data other than from replays.

 

Secondly, I'd agree with you if spamming gold made a player better. It does not.

Oh, sure, it will make it more likely that they will pen what they shoot, but they'd have to be shooting at something in the first place, wouldn't they?

 

The vast majority of the difference between a good (unicum) player and someone who is not has nothing to do about spamming gold ammo. In fact, it hasn't much to do with the ability to penetrate a target either, since the vast majority of people at green or above can do that very well too.

The difference is in being in the right spot at the right time, making good decisions quickly, and predicting enemy moves.

Premium ammo does one thing to a unicum: improve the odds.

I shoot gold often. Probably at least a small bit every match in most of my tanks. The reason I do it, simply put, is to avoid stupid RNG misses / bounces when failure is not an option. And by the way, it doesn't always work. Not nearly. And it has a steep price.

 

Premium ammo is available to everyone. Some will argue that it is more available to people willing to put big money into it, and that's true, but that doesn't mean it should be treated as an "unfair" advantage.

 

Good players play better. They output more damage and win more often. This translates to more credit income, which means higher available funds to shoot premium ammo if needed. The ability to recognize situations where premium ammo is preferable is something that requires experience and skill. The ability to manage gold spam without going broke is also something that requires skill and experience.

 

Point is, it's part of the game and how you use it depends on your skill level, and since WNx aims to estimate skill level, it only makes sense that the players be rewarded for good use of the mechanic and penalised for poor use (or no use) of it.

 

Furthermore, give a red player infinite premium ammo and watch as he stays red. Do the same to an orange, yellow, green, teal and probably even blue player and they will also stay the same. They won't just magically get better or win more games because they can suddenly spam gold at will. 

 

The only people who would really benifit from spamming gold all the time are unicums who are exceptionally good at winning games and outputting damage in the first place, so they'll just become "more" unicum. In my experience, with a few exceptions of course, unicums spam gold for a specific goal: reach a certain DPG in a tank they like, get a 3rd MOE, etc. Doing it ALL the time is highly cost prohibitive (even for a unicum) and in the end, would require spending hard earned cash or playing tons of shitty premium tanks for days, which is not all that enjoyable.

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15 minutes ago, _Legion_of_Boom_ said:

How's that? What's changing?

Gold ammo is getting its pen nerfed/pen dropoff over range increased. Maybe. Sandbox server stuff.

13 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

the higher your WN8 is, the less of an increase in WN8 you would see from firing full gold, IMO. I think players in the 1K-1500 WN8 bracket would see the biggest increase from firing full gold. 

I'd agree with this. At lower skill levels (red/yellow) a player going from full AP to full APCR will likely see their stats go up by an entire color bracket. The fact reds typically can't aim for shit is one of the biggest things holding them back, and APCR goes a long way towards making this less noticeable. On better players it's not nearly as big of a deal as that, since aiming is no longer an issue, just the RNG behind it.

It also depends on how you look at it. Gold rounds themselves are a huge advantage - if you pen everything you hit, your stats will skyrocket. On the other hand, most players already use gold in the situations where it's obviously useful, so "gold spammers" don't really have a gigantic advantage over your average joe. It's just the people that refuse/forget/can't afford to use gold rounds that really get their stats destroyed in comparison to people who default to APCR.

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Gold ammo doesn't equate to an auto pen. I've bounced quite a few angling my IS4 and bounced a few off a hull down E3. Even it's damn lower plate! Depending on the tier, accuracy of my tank and the tank I'm shooting at determines if I use more gold. 

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29 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

they most likely will go up. but the argument is about how much.

the higher your WN8 is, the less of an increase in WN8 you would see from firing full gold, IMO. I think players in the 1K-1500 WN8 bracket would see the biggest increase from firing full gold. 

Good point, although I do think that like every other game mechanic, unicums are far better at using (or abusing) premium ammo than other players. One good example is using APCR for sniping (shell velocity), which pubbies have no clue about and complain endlessly how you shot APCR at their bat chat from 500m while they were going full speed. Another one is knowing to avoid shooting HEAT at yummy tracks, like on the IS7 for example. A pubbie spamming HEAT in his E5 might be baffled about bouncing those sides, whereas a unicum would likely switch to AP because it is more likely to penetrate in those specific types of situations. Another similar example would be when using a high caliber gun and going for some overmatch shots. Most pubbies have no clue about it, but sometimes, E100 AP is so much better than HEAT if you can overmatch something. Same about shooting weird angles on soft tanks (waffles, grille, arty, bat chat, etc.) It's actually pretty easy to fail penetrating if all you do is spam HEAT. It's much smarter to shoot AP/ APCR at those targets, or HE in some sotuations.

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30 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

It's just the people that refuse/forget/can't afford to use gold rounds that really get their stats destroyed in comparison to people who default to APCR.

frankly, if you point blank refuse to load gold in your tank and fire it you are purposely putting yourself at a disadvantage for no good reason. and no, a fake stance of moral high ground is not a valid reason.

4 minutes ago, NThirtyTwo said:

Good point, although I do think that like every other game mechanic, unicums are far better at using (or abusing) premium ammo than other players. One good example is using APCR for sniping (shell velocity), which pubbies have no clue about and complain endlessly how you shot APCR at their bat chat from 500m while they were going full speed. Another one is knowing to avoid shooting HEAT at yummy tracks, like on the IS7 for example. A pubbie spamming HEAT in his E5 might be baffled about bouncing those sides, whereas a unicum would likely switch to AP because it is more likely to penetrate in those specific types of situations. Another similar example would be when using a high caliber gun and going for some overmatch shots. Most pubbies have no clue about it, but sometimes, E100 AP is so much better than HEAT if you can overmatch something. Same about shooting weird angles on soft tanks (waffles, grille, arty, bat chat, etc.) It's actually pretty easy to fail penetrating if all you do is spam HEAT. It's much smarter to shoot AP/ APCR at those targets, or HE in some sotuations.

which is why I said that knowing when and where to fire gold is a valid skill in itself. 

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2 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

which is why I said that knowing when and where to fire gold is a valid skill in itself. 

Yes, and I agree. But you also said:

45 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

the higher your WN8 is, the less of an increase in WN8 you would see from firing full gold, IMO. I think players in the 1K-1500 WN8 bracket would see the biggest increase from firing full gold. 

Which was about:

56 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Firing pure gold may make a 1K player a 1500 player, it might make a 1500 player a 2K player. But it wont male a 2K player a 2450 player, and it wont make a 2450 player a 2850 player. Mainly because knowing where and how to aim is not a high level skill. Its a basic skill. And by the time you hit 2K (hell, even 1K tbh) knowing how to aim to deal damage isnt what will make you better. 

Which, unless I mistook your meaning, basically intends to say that the "boost" a player would get by spamming gold decreases as skill level increases.

While I think this is accurate at least for part of the scale, I don't think it is everywhere.

A very bad player may see a significant boost because he will basically randomly pen shots that had extremely low chances in the first place because he had no idea where to aim.

Any player that understands basic aiming and armor mechanics will probably only see a marginal increase, because they would have penetrated the majority of their shots in the first place.

I think where you'd see thr largest boost is for unicums who know how to abuse the crap out of it.

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2 minutes ago, _Legion_of_Boom_ said:

All very good and valid points thanks.

 

(off topic, how do I get my states on left side below avatar like all the cool kids :)  )

just wait a few, it will update eventually

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Theres a reason better players are able to spam full gold, its because theyre good enough that they can afford to run tanks with high amounts of more expensive equipment.

You see it in sports all the time, no one says "damn that formula 1 driver is trash, bet he couldnt do that in a prius"

Its literally because the driver is good enough for him to make a profit while running his formula 1 car that he is able to use the better car.. If someone is good enough that they can afford to heat spam over hundreds of games, he has to be good enough for that to be profitable for him. Give a shitter 100% gold loadout and he will lose credits faster then rita makes shitty blog posts

IMO you should just assume the best shoot the best, theres no reason to specify that every NHL player uses custom skates, you can just assume that.

 

TLDR: - If someone can afford to spam full gold, its because theyre good enough for it to make sense to them. Theres no need to specify that the best use the best, just assume it.

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To answer your question, look at all the bronze leaguers and compare them to silver leaguers and compare them again to gold leaguers.

I see way too many people of the lower leagues spam gold (specifically the medium APCR vs HEAT scenarios but also occasionally the AP/HEAT) for the sake of spamming it.

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 Gold ammo does give me a boost but it's so small of a boost it doesn't really matter. The main reason I use gold is to minimize the effect of rng, nothing is more infuriating than bouncing a weak spot after penning that same spot multiple times. But a percentage of gold ao shot would be really cool to see because it would allow me  to see how much of a slut I am

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In this age of paper tanks galoure and current sigma accuracy, I don't think gold ammo gives as much of an advantage anymore.

Basicly now everything is an e50s gun in terms of accuracy, and if you aren't up against type5s, maus and the like... Chances are you are just wasting your credits...

Or worse, shooting tracks with HEAT. There are some tanks that benefit from high gold ammo usage (t54, e100 etc.), but those are only a few.

 

In short, most of it is an illusion, learn to aim :popcorn:

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5 hours ago, _Legion_of_Boom_ said:

I am sure the answer to this is NO, and I am probably going to get flamed for it, but...

 

Any chance they will ever put an asterisk (or whatever) next to WN8/WN9 (etc) when that players shoot more than, say, 50% Gold? I normally carry about 6-8 "gold" shells per tank (I pay for them with credits, not "gold"). I generally use them only If I am bottom tier trying to pen top tier heavy. More often than not I don't use them at all, unless I run out of regular. It seems to me, every time I run up against a Unicum or Super Unicum player, they are shooting gold exclusively.

It is part of the game, and that is fine with me, but a player who achieves a WN8 of 2500 while shooting mostly regular shells, is better than one who gets there shooting mostly gold.

Maybe just include Gold shooting % in stats or something?

The only players I have ever seen spam premium shells are 99% of the time Blue infact, Not Unicum/Super Unicum. Blue players are too desperate for that purple color so they just play HEAT-54 or some other shit to pad their stats.
There is a reason people are Super Unicums and it is not because of spamming premium shells. Just like some stupid shit aimbot won't make a 900 rated player Unicum, neither will spamming premium shells.

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4 hours ago, Stige said:

The only players I have ever seen spam premium shells are 99% of the time Blue infact, Not Unicum/Super Unicum. Blue players are too desperate for that purple color so they just play HEAT-54 or some other shit to pad their stats.
There is a reason people are Super Unicums and it is not because of spamming premium shells. Just like some stupid shit aimbot won't make a 900 rated player Unicum, neither will spamming premium shells.

well, you have to get dank purple stats somehow :trollface:

really, you can tell a good player by his tanks stats in game... a player can do whatever he wants, but as long as he doesn't learn how to angle/aim/choose the right ammo/macro-micro positioning, he will still be a shitter and you can spot such players easily..

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I just recently willingly started firing more gold in my higher tier tanks, because of something I saw in one of X3N4's replays in the Obj. 140. I figured that I was a good player because instead of pressing the two key whenever something with armor came against me, I would instead wait for a shot, go to a different vantage point to get shots, or I'd shoot something else. Watching X3N4, fighting on some ridges on steppes, I noticed that by firing gold, you could fire through the turret of, say, an E-100 while exposing just as much tank as needed to get the gun a little over the hill and line up with the E-100. I normally would have to expose most of my tank to get a shot on the lower glacis, but would likely take a large amount of damage in return. With firing gold, you can hopefully bounce shots off your turret, or make them miss, but you still do damage and help your team. So there are places where I feel it is pointless to fire gold, but there are times where it will allow you to save your HP to be able to win the game.

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