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I've been looking at my german tech tree, which is where most of my tanks and game play come from. I've been trying to decide which medium line to move into but just can't commit to it. I have crews waiting in my pz4 D and H (both are about 70% i think into their second skill/perk)

 

they all seem pretty underwhelming to me until T8 with what looks like on paper as just terrible gun selections for their tier. That and looking at the grind to get to them just either looks excruciating and/or boring (D.W. 2)

Or do I just screw the mediums all together, break down and spend on the tiger 2 (crew waiting in my tiger 1 or 36.01) and continue the heavy line? I've been shying away from this as I don't know how much into T8+ I really need to be. I have the Mutz now as my only 8 tank and don't do poorly and use my pz4 D crew it in. I really enjoy T5 and 7 and then 6 although 6 is really, imo, the worst tier in the game.

 

I feel well invested in the german tech tree that moving somewhere else doesn't really hold interest since I'd be going through 1,2,3+ in just about every other country to get anywhere.

 

 

 

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The tiger2 grind is actually pretty pleasant nowadays after the dispersion buff it got a while back and the e75 is great fun. The E50m line on the other hand is pretty mediocre until tier 9

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The "other" German med line that leads to the Leo isn't too bad after tier 6, and the SPIC and RU are both great light tanks. However, the Leo PTA is kinda terrible from what I hear, especially with the stock gun.

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To a player of your battle count, my best advice would be to play more Russian tanks, they are more friendly to newbies than German, especially lower and mid tiers (5-8). If you insist on german tanks, however (as I did when was like you):

Stay away from Leo line. Meta changes were not kind to a line that was ALWAYS in a shadow of its big bro. But now more than ever. Probably one of the worst lines unless you are very old and experienced player - even than most other meds are better.

If you want a paper med, go skoda. At least it is not an ammorack on tracks. Pta is terrible until every module unlocked, top gun and stock turret/suspension and you have terrible gun control (it does not get much better, but at least you are able to hit things without 4 sec aimtime), and awful ROF.

If you want German boxy sexiness, go E 50. Mutz is a good  crew trainer, and can finance your E 50 goldspam.

My bro made a mistake of grinding the Leo 2 y ago, but after E 50 he never looked back. We used to platoon a lot our E 50s, but now we run T50/T54 for ultimate padding platoons.

German heavy line (E 100 one) is one of the best in the whole game. Tier 7 and 10 are contested by USA as better, but still perform solid as ever, as 2nd best very closely. In every tier from 7-10 (that is like 90% of exp grind) you have a capable tank, never the best, but always near the top.

Also, sell your 36.01 ASAP. that tank is shit. If you need tier 6 keeper heavy, use T-150. VK is the worst of all there are currently. I think 3 are good enough to be keepers, so I kept E 100, E 75 and the Tiger, of course. Tiger is the more fun then other two, and the only one that makes money. It benefits from my 4 skill crew (443 m view range w/o food) and if you know to vision kite, it can still surprise pubbies.

P.S. i drive a Land Rover defender as a daily drive, so box appeal is understandable.

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My impressions to add to your information for consideration.

I finished the grind to the E50M and Leo1 recently(just don't have the credits to buy them).

E50 was a lot of fun, though it made me too aggressive in it and I would end up rushing up and brawl early like an idiot sometimes.

I bought my way up the E50M line during the New Year XP conversion sale, so I started at the E50.

Leo PtA was a lot of fun too. The mobility on it kept me very active and works really well as a bush sniper and flanking for repositioning. Fear the hell out of T49s because they WILL yolorush you on sight.

SP1C is hilarious fun. I RU251 has become one of my favorite lights.

 

Tiger 1 is great, I played the Tiger 2 before it was buffed and hated it.. I might buy it back if it goes on discount at some point. E75 is very good.

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Tiger 2 was buffed? I still think it's shit...

Over-matchable turret roof, paper turret sides, butter lower front plate. There is always a place you can shoot to pen it, so the armor is useless, and yet it is slow with poor DPM...

Yeah I don't care for it much.

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5 minutes ago, HairlesMonkyBoy said:

Tiger 2 was buffed? I still think it's shit...

Over-matchable turret roof, paper turret sides, butter lower front plate. There is always a place you can shoot to pen it, so the armor is useless, and yet it is slow with poor DPM...

Yeah I don't care for it much.

Stick with the 88, not the 105.

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1 hour ago, HairlesMonkyBoy said:

Tiger 2 was buffed? I still think it's shit...

Over-matchable turret roof, paper turret sides, butter lower front plate. There is always a place you can shoot to pen it, so the armor is useless, and yet it is slow with poor DPM...

Yeah I don't care for it much.

it got a massive dispersion buff a while back

Base accuracy and reload might of been touched as well.

and HD remodel made the lower plate slightly less shit. Not to mention no more frontal fires

Its a hell of a lot better than it was when I ground through it 

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Lights are definitely not my cup of tea. Too much gold slinging needed most of the time (and for that means loss of credits) and a lot of the maps I just haven't figured out what you do with one (like city maps) though I like the wz-131 but I play it more like a back support medium than a scout.

On the soviet side I haven't really touched it. I got up to the KV-1 and I got into the same predicament as to where to move 150 or kv1s (don't care for the niche KV2) and just froze there. I do liek the kv1 it is troll unless low tier and most 4/5 folks don't know what to do with you when you angle with it. I also have the rudy. Soviet side there are just too many choices for me and too many tree mistakes to be made.

 

 

 

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Haven't played Leo line yet, but at the E50 right now.

Panther 1 should be good, but isn't because WG. Accuracy? Nah, no accuracy for german sniper tank.

Panther 2 is diabolical.

E50 is great, but tough stock grind.

 

If you're really set on a German med, go E50/M. However another tank you might be interested in is the M48 Patton. Pretty nice grind, T20 is good, Pershing is probably my favourite tier 8 med at the moment, and it shares a chunk of its early line with the T110E5 heavy.

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26 minutes ago, Zezti said:

Haven't played Leo line yet, but at the E50 right now.

Panther 1 should be good, but isn't because WG. Accuracy? Nah, no accuracy for german sniper tank.

Panther 2 is diabolical.

E50 is great, but tough stock grind.

 

If you're really set on a German med, go E50/M. However another tank you might be interested in is the M48 Patton. Pretty nice grind, T20 is good, Pershing is probably my favourite tier 8 med at the moment, and it shares a chunk of its early line with the T110E5 heavy.

Because the Panther is my bby, I wanna neg rep you, but I'm nice so nah :P  The Panther 1 has .31 accuracy with my 4 skill crew :P, but it suffers from poorer DPM compared to the Comet and the alpha isn't helpful.  Not to mention most of the maps favor lightning fast meds with some armor and brawling capabilities, which the Panther just doesn't have :cri:.

Panther 2 is :eww: because just take the panther hull, give it like 20 mm more armor, and a meh gun with 5 extra pen, and make it a tier higher.  Doesn't help that the tank is still slow.  I've had the P2 for ~6 months now; I don't even touch it.

 

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32 minutes ago, Zezti said:

Panther 1 should be good, but isn't because WG. Accuracy? Nah, no accuracy for german sniper tank.

The Panther worked out really well for me. I overperformed in it by a fair margin by just putting the nose of my tank against things, plinking away safely-ish, and then running around spending those hitpoints. I think it's worth not skipping for those who haven't tried it. 

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I was relatively late to the German medium tank party. only gotten up to the Panther II atm

I started off with the VK30.02(M) aka the historical Panther. It's relatively decent at tier 6, fairly mobile with a good 7.5 cm gun

The Panther may be problematic for newer players, since it relies on keeping distance and sustaining a rate of fire to be able to do any appreciable amount of damage. If you ever get into a close range engagement with another medium tank or heavy tank that can has better DPS than you, either gtfo, OR get in their face and bury your lance into their tank and force down needles of Pzgr 39 L (AP) or Pzgr 40 L (APCR) into their throats. It's a fairly big tank so finding a sniping spot may be a challenge. aim for weakspots to maximize the damage you do, or farm assist damage by blowing someone's tracks off

the Panther II is alright. It uses the same 8.8 cm L/71 gun as the Tiger I, but now its on a medium tank. At tier 8. If you haven't gotten that gun unlocked, then welcome to hell in the form of still using the 7.5 cm L/100 at tier VIII against tier IX and X tanks.

fully upgraded, the Panther II is a decent tank, taking lessons from the Panther, you can afford to be fairly aggressive and lay down the DPM. the aim time is fairly long but can be mitigated with a good crew and some equipment.

 

after getting the Pz 58 Mutz I started to go down the other German medium line, but via the German LT instead of the MT VK3001 and 2 (D) or Indianpanzer

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for the German line the mid tiers are playable, the panthers are basically the same big slow armourless mediums with very slightly above average firepower which are playable while still being very squarely below par and boring as bat shit. and the stock e50 is god awful.

But if you wade through knee high shit that is the mid tiers the e50 and e50m are good tanks

 

Honestly the only tanks in the heavy line I didn't enjoy were the tier 6 vk and tiger 2. The tiger 2 was bad but its still a tier 8 heavy and playble so it wasn't to bad and if it got a buff it would probably be very grindable.

 

I wouldn't bother with the leo line. Armourless pure support meds aren't worth very much in world of corridors.

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10 hours ago, PrinzEugen478 said:

Because the Panther is my bby, I wanna neg rep you, but I'm nice so nah :P  The Panther 1 has .31 accuracy with my 4 skill crew :P, but it suffers from poorer DPM compared to the Comet and the alpha isn't helpful.  Not to mention most of the maps favor lightning fast meds with some armor and brawling capabilities, which the Panther just doesn't have :cri:.

The reason the Panther is underwhelming, or in my opinion awful, is because it can't mount vert stabs. Compared to the Comet or T20 that can mount it, it's aim bloom is horrific, especially when traversing the turret. Also, it's a huge, easy target with no armour at all so you get penned for days. It also has the worst terrain resistances out of all the tier 7 meds.

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15 hours ago, xxbigbacon said:

Lights are definitely not my cup of tea. Too much gold slinging needed most of the time (and for that means loss of credits) and a lot of the maps I just haven't figured out what you do with one (like city maps) though I like the wz-131 but I play it more like a back support medium than a scout.

On the soviet side I haven't really touched it. I got up to the KV-1 and I got into the same predicament as to where to move 150 or kv1s (don't care for the niche KV2) and just froze there. I do liek the kv1 it is troll unless low tier and most 4/5 folks don't know what to do with you when you angle with it. I also have the rudy. Soviet side there are just too many choices for me and too many tree mistakes to be made.

 

 

 

No mistakes at soviet side, they are all great. Heavy lines, med lines (both, but for newbies rear mounted turret line is a bit hard to master - ends with Obj 430), even TDs are good (Su-85B, SU-100, Su-152, ISU-152)

I spent 90% of my first 10 000 battles at german tech tree, only to realize how stupid I was.

EVERY line of Soviet tanks is great, and while german line typically have 1-2 keepers along the line, soviets have almost every second tank as a keeper.

Just look at mid tier meds, you have best tier 5 med (T-34-57), tied with best tier 6 (T-34-85 is IMHO slightly worse than Cromwell, but difference is very small, A-43-57 is also great for old player and apcr to burn), then A-44 if you sidescrape and derp/ram ppl and again apcr, 416 is OP as hell, best camo in game with tier X gold shalls and tier 9 DPM/ROF.

T-54 is still one of top 3 meds in its tier, Skoda powercreeped it just a little bit, but physics changes left in untouched unlike some others....Even T-28 at tier 4 is very OP in the right hands, you can find my thread about it if you like.

KV-13 and T43/44 are solid, but not keepers since you have no 10 4 skill crews around...

Light line is very good at T-54 lwt, that tank is OP if you play strongholds...

T-150 is absolutely the best as a tier 6 keeper, i had 60% wr with worse stats than you, now about 65-70% solo. It teaches you angling a lot, have usable gun depression (unlike KV-85 that was nerfed into ground), and is pretty much the same speed as KV-85. But the line ends there, unless you are bored and wanna try something new. I ground it till IS-4, but no point of keeping. KV-4 and ST-I are nice once in a while, but gun handling and speed just leaves you frustrated so often...and arty just makes you their priority every time. Unless triple platooned, that tanks have no use besides IS-3 and T-10. KV-3 pre HD model was a good, if somewhat boring tank to play. Also great teacher of sidescrape techniques.

Other line is definetly better at tier 8, IS-3 is a keeper, must-have, and every clan you try to get into will absolutely require it, wonder why they did not told you yet.

IS, and T-10 are also fine at its tier, just not as strong as T-150 and IS-3 tier for tier. IS will require some goldspam, APCR is the only chance when facing the ubiquotus IS-3 brother, but most of the tanks at line are cheap to run, have enough armor to crush seals, and high alpha.

IS-7 is not that great, along with IS-4. E 100 is the preferred meatshield/HP pool, along with alpha, both in pubs (platooned), and organized play, but until the nerf there is no doubt that E 5 is just better at everything than both above mentioned tanks, except resisting arty hits.

If you really insist going german line, I suggest you aim for E 75 and Jagdtiger. Jpe 100 is useless, but buy E 100 when you have some sort a discounts, and a good crew laying around. Tiger is the best crew trainer for heavy line, unless you train a crew in Mutz and pay for conversion to heavy one. hain, e-100 and jagdtiger have both 6, so it takes a while to crew them. Both can work just fine with only full repairs and 6th sense, though.

I ground german med line the last of all german lines - there are simply too many stinkers, mainly the panthers. I ground the other heavy line till tier 9 also, before finally passed the Panther 2 by daily doubles/special events.

VKB is an interesting choice vs E 75, less flexible and suffers without a platoon mate, but stronger as a pusher and meatshield platooned.

Maus is 100x worse than E100, do not even think about buying it.

I have both E 50 and 50 M, now i like 50 M more, but before the e 50 was better. Now it is just too many E5s around, and without heat i am unable to kill them before they kill me.

I also kept G.W. panther, very good for missions. Light line is OK, SP 1c is better tier for tier than RU, but RU is the best light for some missions.

Basically, germans have nothing below tier 7 besides very good pz. II, while Russians are the strongest mid tiers and IS-3. Higher than IS-3 you have german-USA supremacy, T-10 is arguably very good, but not for new players.

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On 7/7/2016 at 10:48 AM, Shadowy_Ninja said:

The "other" German med line that leads to the Leo isn't too bad after tier 6, and the SPIC and RU are both great light tanks. However, the Leo PTA is kinda terrible from what I hear, especially with the stock gun.

The Leo PTA is, IMO, one of the best tanks in the game. It's basically impossible to die before at least 12 of the pubbies on your team if you play it right and don't get clicked.

My winrate in it has dropped precipitously since I came back (from 62-61% to 57%), but it farms damage and WN8 as well as ever and can still win.

 That it moves like a light tank and hits like a medium that never misses is awesome.

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Well if you sit back and never try anything it is impossible to die in any tank...PTA just doesn't have as many choices to do anything else as many others. But have not played it after buffs, it is probably quite ok as it was not too bad even before. And big reason that it gives good wr is probably that it is absolutely useless when stock. Played it like 10 games completely stock just to laugh at how bad it is, it literally has nothing, no speed, no armor, no fire power and at least then it even had a hopeless aim time(on that Indien-panzer gun, with no gun depression and bad DPM). You can just imagine how much your standard WOT player is going to contribute in a tank like that...

 

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So, i think I pretty much just not going to worry about after all. Mainly because I don't feel like getting more gold at the moment to keep moving crews that and I just REALLY do not want to grind through the DW2 and the 30.01 to get into the E50 line of mediums which is where I think I would go. I would move my pz 4d crew along up the line once I got there.

Too much going on. still working on german TD, some heavy crews, and now the soviet T34 (which I absolutely HATE in stock form)

I guess I have trouble moving along and I also have trouble getting rid of tanks and/or wanting to grind more crews. Kv-1 can get kv1s or t-150 now but I haven't moved into those either. 

really wish I could just buy crews and skills....bad as P2W that would be, I'd be more inclinded to move up if I could spend 400-500 gold on a new crew memeber who comes at 100% + 100% on their first perk. 

 

I enjoy this game.....but I loath the crew grinds.

 

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There are things you can do to manage your crew grinds and make them less frustrating.  Think of your XP pool as having two components, primary crew XP and crew skills and perks.

Firstly, avoid the mentor skill as the bonus XP does not cover the cost to switch it out whether in XP or gold.

Secondly, avoid paying gold to change a crew members tank speciality.

When retraining to another tank for credits (from 100%) you only lose 10% (or 20% if changing classes) of the primary crew XP.  (Locked in skills and perks remain the same.)  

From 80% - 90%, you will need roughly 24,704 XP.

From 90% - 100%, you will need roughly 39,153 XP.

Tactical use of Personal Reserves, a little premium time, a few doubles (or weekend specials), some good games and leveraging crew time in a premium tank and that's over before you know it.

You can also combine it with a little crew skills and perks hack; where unallocated crew skills and perks XP (you still have the plus sign) is used to backfill your primary skill upon re-training to a different tank. For Example:

Crew Member A - 100% Primary Skill, First Skill or Perk 100%, Second Skill or Perk 40%

After tank retraining (for credits in class) - 90% Primary Skill, First Skill or Perk 100%, Second Skill or Perk 40% 

Crew Member B - 100% Primary Skill, First Skill or Perk 100%, Second Skill or Perk unallocated (+ Sign)

After tank retraining (for credits in class) - 96% (90% Primary Skill + 22,532 exp from Second Skill or Perk), First Skill or Perk 100%, Second Skill or Perk 0% 

Therefore making the grind back to 100% that much less.  Using this method and leaving the crew in the original tank and/or premium to build up that unallocated XP prior to tank retraining you can actually retrain to a different tank (for credits) and finish with 100% crew skill.

Thirdly, try to avoid paying gold to change a crew members skills or perks.

Retraining skills and perks (for credits) comes with an escalating penalty as it is 90% of the total crew skill and perk XP.   The trade off is approximately 65% XP of the next skill or perk and as your skills perks increase the actual XP hit gets drastic. For Example:

Crew Member A - 100% Primary Skill, First Skill or Perk 100%, Second Skill or Perk 65%

After crew skill and perk retraining (for credits) - 100% Primary Skill, First Skill or Perk 100%, Second Skill or Perk 0% (a hit of 80,429 XP)

Crew Member B - 100% Primary Skill, First Skill or Perk 100%, Second Skill or Perk 100%, Third Skill or Perk 65%

After crew skill and perk retraining (for credits) - 100% Primary Skill, First Skill or Perk 100%, Second Skill or Perk 100%, Third Skill or Perk 0%  (a hit of 160,859 XP)

What you will find is due to the exponential nature of the skill progressions; the last 10% of the skill is equivalent to 65% of the next skill.    

If you are on a tight budget and want to avoid paying gold to change crew skills ensure you come up with crew skill build that works for you crews end point tank and just do it.  I generally start with Sixth, repair/camo, and Safe stowage.  Is it wasteful having two perks on the go while getting no immediate benefit? It is however over time the limited benefit of those extra two skills versus the cost to retrain for credits/gold often doesn't pay off in my mind.  I reserve gold for when I want a wholesale retrain to BIA and resume progression without taking a big hit.

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