Cleveland?

[Pocktio 730]

Hi guys, 

As I've gotten up to the Nurn and soon the Aoba, I've decided high tiers are mostly shitty campfests. 

I saw a Cleveland and realised it has 3 gun turrets which I hearts. It seems brutally efficient at burning down enemies with the dank RoF ... is it any good now? WoWs is so much harder to follow than WoT, everything I find is so old I can't trust whether the ship has been updated or nerfed since

Halp, please & thank you

[StranaMechty 2,539]

It has four turrets, and a lot of problems. Largest being that it has really awful shell arcs, which make hitting targets at any kind of distance an exercise in frustration. It's also not particularly fast, at 32.5 knots it's only half a knot from being the slowest tier 6 cruiser.

It's been nerfed heavily since a while back, which it unquestionably deserved. It's probably been nerfed too heavily, though. If you want a fast-reloading flamethrower then you probably want the Budyonny, which has one less turret but wildly better gun arcs, better speed, and torpedoes. You do need to be aware that it's larger, slower to turn, and has worse armoring, though.

[Pocktio 730]

Oh the Russian cruisers invalidated it via power creep? How ... unsurprising. 

How different is the Molotov to the Buddy then? I like the idea of a fireship...

[Jarkorsis 92]

Molotov has much bigger guns and slower rate of fire. It is like an upgraded Kirov. The Cleveland is still very good. The AFT changes hurt it, but what has hurt it more is people playing BB's have become better shots. You can't sail in straight lines or some BB will crush you. If you maneuver a lot a Cleveland will serve you well. A Molotov is a great ship. You can pen BB's with ap if they give you a flat side. It is like the budy in that it has good straight line speed, but can't well at all.

[Rodrigopine 184]

It used to be a lot stronger and print Arsonist badges like they were going out of style. (Apparently they were!)

Now it's not a bad cruiser, it's slow, shell arc can be frustrating but on the plus side it is fairly tanky for a cruiser being one of the trickier ones to citadel. Now with that said you'll still take big hits from BBs if you're not careful. And situationally it can be strong if you can use the arcs to hit targets that can't hit you back but that is VERY map and deployment dependent.

Hope this helps!

[How_Terrible 529]

The Cleveland is still probably the most popular tier 6 cruiser in the game since it has a very very very low skill floor. On the flip side the skill ceiling for it is just barely above the floor. So, while it is a very forgiving ship that will let new / bad players feel like they can consistently accomplish something in most of the battle they take it into experienced / good players will find it very lackluster since the ship lacks any sort of definitive asset that can be exploited.

The Molotov is the exact opposite of the Cleveland. Both its skill floor and skill ceiling are quite high so bad players will do awful in it and good players will be like Zeus casting lighting from the heavens. As far as play style goes the Molotov should stay back and snip whenever possible. The 180mm guns and ammo that it carries around are not the ones from the Kirov but instead are the ones from the tier 9 Soviet cruiser. When facing any cruiser, and even a lot of the battleships, just load AP and have fun sniping for massive damage if the enemy shows you their broadside. If they decline to show you some broadside then load HE and have fun being a flame thrower because both the AP and HE on the Molotov are quite good. The only really downside to the ship is that just like the Kirov it is derived from it is fragile as hell which means any sort of focused fire will melt you. It is also why you want to avoid close range brawling if at all possible, and if you can't avoid it do your damnedest to make sure the enemy is dispatched with your opening salvo.

The Buddy is slightly more fragile then the Cleveland, but other then that it outclasses its American rival in every way possible.
 

[Pocktio 730]

I only looked at the Cleveland because I own a Molotov. If the Buddy outclasses it, I'll just go for that. 

I'm not hugely interested in the endgame, but the RU line seems better than the American endgame cruisers too.

[BoilerBandsman 427]

In my experience the cleve is a great DD killer, and is murder up close. I used her in ranked 22-15 because she bullied DDs off cap so well, and the low numbers per side sometimes let me get close enough to rip up her fragile competitors with AP. If not, 12 guns just let me set lots of BB fires in the meantime. 

[Mesrith 356]

1 hour ago, How_Terrible said:

The Cleveland is still probably the most popular tier 6 cruiser in the game since it has a very very very low skill floor. On the flip side the skill ceiling for it is just barely above the floor. So, while it is a very forgiving ship that will let new / bad players feel like they can consistently accomplish something in most of the battle they take it into experienced / good players will find it very lackluster since the ship lacks any sort of definitive asset that can be exploited.

I slightly disagree.  It's not an astounding ship by any measure in its current form, but it's still an excellent close-range brawler that absolutely destroys opposing cruisers with AP, and is a destroyer-slayer second only to the Budy.  It's also one of the toughest cruisers to citadel, so it's more forgiving of careless broadsides.

My Cleveland stats are from before the AFT change but I'd be shocked if more than 10% of my damage came from AFT ranges anyway, since it was very difficult to hit targets reliably.  I'd bet that the Cleveland is still a good ship for the way I played it, which is as a Des Moines Light.  Try to get an early destroyer kill or at least drive them off, isolate enemy cruisers if you can and blow them up with <10km AP, and make flamethrowing enemy battleships a distant third in priority, being very careful not to get caught in the open and engaged by yourself.  If something other than AFT has made the Cleveland much worse since then, I apologize, I missed that.

[How_Terrible 529]

1 minute ago, Mesrith said:

I slightly disagree.  It's not an astounding ship by any measure in its current form, but it's still an excellent close-range brawler that absolutely destroys opposing cruisers with AP, and is a destroyer-slayer second only to the Budy.  It's also one of the toughest cruisers to citadel, so it's more forgiving of careless broadsides.

My Cleveland stats are from before the AFT change but I'd be shocked if more than 10% of my damage came from AFT ranges anyway, since it was very difficult to hit targets reliably.  I'd bet that the Cleveland is still a good ship for the way I played it, which is as a Des Moines Light.  Try to get an early destroyer kill or at least drive them off, isolate enemy cruisers if you can and blow them up with <10km AP, and make flamethrowing enemy battleships a distant third in priority, being very careful not to get caught in the open and engaged by yourself.  If something other than AFT has made the Cleveland much worse since then, I apologize, I missed that.

The bulk of my Cleveland play is also pre-AFT nerf. I will acknowledge that the Cleveland is a hell of a close range brawler, but its effectiveness drops off dramatically once you get past 8 - 10km. Past that range you'd better sending you shells to the enemy via UPS since they would probably arrive quicker that way. Also if an enemy, like another cruiser or destroyer, can hold the range open while engaging a Cleveland they will be able to slowly chip away at the Cleveland's HP pool while being able to dodge most the Cleveland's return fire.

I'm not saying that the Cleveand is a bad ship. In fact it is quite good for players have below average to marginally above average ability. It is however very limiting in the hands of good - great players, which is the bracket for the majority of the players that participate in this forum.

[xWulffx 393]

Pre AFT ---> OP

Post AFT ---> not OP

Pros

It is still fast and maneuverable, has good AA (one of the best at tier iirc), it's odd citadel arrangement makes it tough to citadel.  It has lots of guns and burns up enemy ships.  Loves to crush DDs.  Up close is outguns/dpms most other similar tier cruisers.  Very forgiving and noob friendly.

Con's

 No torps and it lost like @ 2km range with AFT nerf ... (pre nerf it was equal to or slightly better in range than most tier 5 and 6 BBs except the Japanese ones) ... post nerf the newer US BBs like the Texas and Arizona outrange it. The newer DE and RU cruisers outrange it drastically.

 

[SoliDeoGloria 417]

The Cleveland got worse as better cruisers came in. No surprise, I never liked it that much anyways, and I play mainly cruisers. It's very forgiving to mistakes though, given that I still don't reliably citadel it with my nikolai or other cruisers.

[yoyoya2 528]

1 hour ago, xWulffx said:

 

It is still fast and maneuverable, has good AA (one of the best at tier iirc), it's odd citadel arrangement makes it tough to citadel.  It has lots of guns and burns up enemy ships.  Loves to crush DDs.  Up close is outguns/dpms most other similar tier cruisers.  Very forgiving and noob friendly.

 

1.Does 32 knots (Not fast)

2.Not really,it is just is split in two, it is still a very big citadel and also it always takes full dmg as shells almost never overpen. Also if someone aim is a little early or late you will probably be citadelled.

Other then that you are correct

 

[xWulffx 393]

13 minutes ago, yoyoya2 said:

1.Does 32 knots (Not fast)

2.Not really,it is just is split in two, it is still a very big citadel and also it always takes full dmg as shells almost never overpen. Also if someone aim is a little early or late you will probably be citadelled.

Other then that you are correct

 

Not as fast as the Japanese cruisers, but it's still decent speed.

I played one, it was Ok but not great. 

Isn't most of the citadel below water making it harder to hit?

[yoyoya2 528]

Just now, xWulffx said:

Not as fast as the Japanese cruisers, but it's still decent speed.

I played one, it was Ok but not great. 

Isn't most of the citadel below water making it harder to hit?

No the citadel is just kinda separated, It is very long yet in the middle in is lower then usual It kinda does this --------__-------- 

[Flametz 453]

1 hour ago, yoyoya2 said:

No the citadel is just kinda separated, It is very long yet in the middle in is lower then usual It kinda does this --------__-------- 

Other way around. The citadel in WoWs is modelled like this:

_____--------------------_____

I'll get screenshots when I'm not on phone.

Edit (blue line = waterline):

[yoyoya2 528]

53 minutes ago, Flametz said:

Other way around. The citadel in WoWs is modelled like this:

_____--------------------_____

I'll get screenshots when I'm not on phone.

Edit (blue line = waterline):

 

O yeah they fixed the no citadel in the middle a while ago, forgot about that

[StranaMechty 2,539]

7 hours ago, Pocktio said:

I'm not hugely interested in the endgame, but the RU line seems better than the American endgame cruisers too.

Mind you, I've only gotten to the tier 7 for the Rooskies so I can't speak on their endgame, but I do have the tier 10 American cruiser. The tier 8 and 9 Americans are just bland and boring. Globally their win rates are worst in class, they just don't really have any leverageable strengths. They've got the best AA, but that's like saying they've got the best resistance to arty (situationally useful but not an exploitable trait).

The Des Moines, however. Oh boy. It's got a bunch of limits and I would still say it's 3rd or 4th out of 4, but holy shit is it fun. Nine 8" guns with a six second reload (5.3 with the reload mod). The shell arcs are like the Cleveland, but if you can get close you can spray truly silly amounts of damage. I once got broadside to an Iowa and blasted him for most of his HP, thanks to a handy cyclone. Here was my first match in it.

[OnboardG1 1,279]

I think I'm right in thinking that the citadel is modelled in the centre but there is nothing "solid" there so you tend to get over penetration. 

[Pocktio 730]

On 7/21/2016 at 4:37 AM, StranaMechty said:

Mind you, I've only gotten to the tier 7 for the Rooskies so I can't speak on their endgame, but I do have the tier 10 American cruiser. The tier 8 and 9 Americans are just bland and boring. Globally their win rates are worst in class, they just don't really have any leverageable strengths. They've got the best AA, but that's like saying they've got the best resistance to arty (situationally useful but not an exploitable trait).

The Des Moines, however. Oh boy. It's got a bunch of limits and I would still say it's 3rd or 4th out of 4, but holy shit is it fun. Nine 8" guns with a six second reload (5.3 with the reload mod). The shell arcs are like the Cleveland, but if you can get close you can spray truly silly amounts of damage. I once got broadside to an Iowa and blasted him for most of his HP, thanks to a handy cyclone. Here was my first match in it.

 

That sounds fun and all, but the thought of grinding to tier 10 in this game for a gimmicky ship that has severe limitations makes me want to vomit noisily

After grinding the Furrytaco out a bit tonight and having two games where 1-2 CVs zealously tunnel visioned on me, despite dodging most of their torps most of the time. I might get a Cleveland just so I can enjoy ships without irritating little shits with torpedo bombers getting in the way.

 

[megaflex4000 148]

So is this thread just really old or am I particularly retarded when it comes to the Cleveland? I see people saying things like "close-range brawler" and "maneuver" which seem in no way applicable to this horrible garbage boat.

Well, I guess technically the great ROF along with the nice turret arrangement would make it a good brawler, if it wasn't for the 5 BB meta in which getting spotted results in instant death. The ship is in no way fast, maneuverable or durable enough to approach any enemy. So I'm reduced to farting out HE at max range and praying the enemy doesn't breathe towards their AD keys during the three months that the shells spend in the air.

[Rodrigopine 184]

Well as far as cruisers go it's not squishy, but that is compared to ships like the Nurnberg or Budyonny or Aoba which are significantly easier to citadel. The Cleveland's armor is pretty weak so most shots will be damaging shots. Probably the biggest strength of the ship are the shell arcs. meaning you get into a position where you can easily lob shells over cover without the enemy being able to shoot back.

Here's a link to a video by Flamu that might help: Flamu Cleveland 5.12

 

[Das_Schlippo 76]

I find the shell arcs to be a weakness.  I just can't make myself islandkemp and lob.  Trying to hit enemies beyond 12km is stoopid hard, at least for me.  I ground through mine before the AFT nerf and didn't play it again for close to a year.  I broke it out a couple of weeks ago, lost like 8 or 9 battles in a row and ragesold it.  I repurchased the Nurnberg, which I think is a more flexible ship.

[TouchFluffyTail 596]

Close range brawler is correct for this ship, and pretty much all ships blessed with the 'snail shell' problem since they tend to have great penetration and rapidly lose their ability to hit things readily as ranges increase.

[yoyoya2 528]

8 minutes ago, TouchFluffyTail said:

Close range brawler is correct for this ship, and pretty much all ships blessed with the 'snail shell' problem since they tend to have great penetration and rapidly lose their ability to hit things readily as ranges increase.

Sadly a close range brawler for a CA= shit

All the good CAs are the ones who have a flat arc and accuracy at range. Once you get into 8km and you have have no cover and even worst you don't have 8inch guns or torps you are dead.