Strv 103b - Tier 10 TD

[Platypusbill 213]

The armour model is available at gamemodels3d, just completed this evaluation of it.

In short:

-The entire front except a tiny cupola is immune to sub-120mm AP/APCR.

-HEAT should only be used if you can't overmatch with AP/APCR, the effect of the spaced armour is substantial. You can penetrate a narrow section along the middle with HEAT, but tracking and flanking it is a better idea unless terrain/other enemies prevent this.

-150mm+ guns can penetrate almost the entire front with AP/APCR.

-120mm+ guns can penetrate the entire LFP, but only a small part of the UFP, with AP/APCR.

[DHP 502]

@Platypusbill awsome resume.

[MacusFlash 2,270]

Will Grille 15 become Strv killer? Proper gun caliber and combination of aim time and accuracy.

[Platypusbill 213]

A boomstick with good accuracy would be ideal, yes. But I suppose it will be very vulnerable in general without terrain or distance to make it a more dificult target and to prevent easy tracking + flanking. Even if your opponent can't get around you, them being able to lock both your vehicle and gun in place with a shot to the tracks kind of sucks.

BTW, its tier IX little brother is 18mm everywhere without spaced armour. Basically might as well be 1mm, except the extreme angles on the front do prevent guaranteed HE pens.

[leggasiini 1,567]

21 minutes ago, Platypusbill said:

 

BTW, its tier IX little brother is 18mm everywhere without spaced armour. Basically might as well be 1mm, except the extreme angles on the front do prevent guaranteed HE pens.

 

IIRC tier 9's armor values are placeholders. I think it actually has same (or similar atleast) armor values as tier 10, although just not as effective because lack of HEAT shield.

[renhanxue 47]

The UFP on the t9 should be ~10mm thinner.

[Nekommando 386]

10 hours ago, Copeyhagen said:

Am I the only one completely uninterested in this tank and its new mechanics?

Then why are you commenting in this thread? 

[Copeyhagen 41]

Same as everyone else, I'm reading the info and giving my opinion. I just think this is going to promote more red line camping.

[HappyIittlecloud 39]

It looks very unique at least. It even could use funky positions in city maps, but will be very good on open maps.

It seems to be helpless when caught out or when targeted by arty.

Not my playstile but I am looking forward to it

[garryallen 136]

On 16/10/2016 at 5:24 AM, Copeyhagen said:

Am I the only one completely uninterested in this tank and its new mechanics?

I like the use of the turret far more than the offers given by the dpm. The su122 44 is awesome because it can bully stuff with its dpm, i don't think this will be able to. seems like its going to be closer to the kanonenjagdpanzer than the e25, as it will have similar drawbacks, though the armor may be interesting until you face e100s and grilles

[DHP 502]

I wonder if people are aware that 150mm+ is NOT 150mm and therefore 150mm gun won't be able to overmatch this better than a 122mm....

[Felicius 170]

8 hours ago, DHP said:

I wonder if people are aware that 150mm+ is NOT 150mm and therefore 150mm gun won't be able to overmatch this better than a 122mm....

152 mm best, stronk Stalin.

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

On 17-10-2016 at 7:17 AM, DHP said:

I wonder if people are aware that 150mm+ is NOT 150mm and therefore 150mm gun won't be able to overmatch this better than a 122mm....

We dont have 150mm guns in wot though

• Germans get 149mm (in game its listed as 150mm, but it was always 149mm, so i guess WG just edited the description (unless they really bothered changing this)
• Japan, 149,1mm
• Soviet gets 152,4mm
• US and france get 155mm

ps: armor is also sometimes dont in 50,xx mm, especially brit and us tanks get those values

 

[wes 27]

On 10/17/2016 at 11:48 AM, garryallen said:

I like the use of the turret far more than the offers given by the dpm. The su122 44 is awesome because it can bully stuff with its dpm, i don't think this will be able to. seems like its going to be closer to the kanonenjagdpanzer than the e25, as it will have similar drawbacks, though the armor may be interesting until you face e100s and grilles

I don't really know how can it defend itself when getting closed in. Instead of hiding behind a rock/wall, should it actually siege IN FRONT of a rock/wall corner to protect it's ass and flank ? Given bino and camo net both work in siege mode, looks like everyone will put them on alongside rammer, find the place with widest line of fire, and shot till dead.

[garryallen 136]

6 hours ago, wes said:

I don't really know how can it defend itself when getting closed in. Instead of hiding behind a rock/wall, should it actually siege IN FRONT of a rock/wall corner to protect it's ass and flank ? Given bino and camo net both work in siege mode, looks like everyone will put them on alongside rammer, find the place with widest line of fire, and shot till dead.

The playstyle is gunna be odd, but it should be an interesting mechanic

[Platypusbill 213]

On 10/17/2016 at 8:17 AM, DHP said:

I wonder if people are aware that 150mm+ is NOT 150mm and therefore 150mm gun won't be able to overmatch this better than a 122mm....

What I meant by 150mm+ (am I misusing this?) is "150mm or more".

21 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

We dont have 150mm guns in wot though

• Germans get 149mm (in game its listed as 150mm, but it was always 149mm, so i guess WG just edited the description (unless they really bothered changing this)
• Japan, 149,1mm
• Soviet gets 152,4mm
• US and france get 155mm

ps: armor is also sometimes dont in 50,xx mm, especially brit and us tanks get those values

 

Has it been ever been tested if 15cm guns are actully modeled as the real caliber of 149mm? If not, I'd appreciate it if someone tried it.

I know Soviet 152s are actually 152,4mm, I ran a test where I shot at a 50,8mm (2 inch) plate at an extreme angle with a 152 derp and it penetrated. Some armour thicknesses originally measured in inches are rounded to whole millimeters, though.

 

[DHP 502]

1 hour ago, Platypusbill said:

What I meant by 150mm+ (am I misusing this?) is "150mm or more".

http://wiki.wargaming.net/zh-tw/Battle_Mechanics#Overmatch

 

Quote

If the AP or APCR shell caliber is more than 3 times the nominal thickness of the armour (such as a 130mm shell hitting a 40mm thick plate), no ricochet will happen even if the impact angle is more than 70° from normal. 

Keywords here is greater THAN it's not greater or equal. 

 

Also thanks for the info that the 150 german is in fact 149mm, i did not know that. 

[leggasiini 1,567]

German 150mm guns are still 150mm guns in the game. I just checked, and even from deepest details it is stated they are 150mms. Seems like WG has made it like that, huh, because i know that they are 149, not 150mm guns. Japanese 150mm (the 15cm derp on tier 6 - 8 Jap heavies) is 149,1mm and Russian 150mm guns are 152,4mm guns, though, so there is that.

There is also always expections, such as upcoming derp on Type 4/5, which is 152,4mm, just like Russian guns, unlike 149,1mm like the other 150mm Japanese gun.

[Platypusbill 213]

35 minutes ago, DHP said:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/zh-tw/Battle_Mechanics#Overmatch

 

Keywords here is greater THAN it's not greater or equal. 

 

Also thanks for the info that the 150 german is in fact 149mm, i did not know that. 

That information must be false, seeing as armour plates have been demonstrably overmatched by guns with a 3:1 calibre/thickness ratio.

[MacusFlash 2,270]

21 minutes ago, Platypusbill said:

That information must be false, seeing as armour plates have been demonstrably overmatched by guns with a 3:1 calibre/thickness ratio.

Try overmatch Foch's side with 120mm gun or Ferdinand's roof with 90mm. Bounces all the time.

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

1 hour ago, MacusFlash said:

Try overmatch Foch's side with 120mm gun or Ferdinand's roof with 90mm. Bounces all the time.

That can also be because US guns are not 120mm, but 4.72 inch, which is 119.88mm

UK and france do use 120mm (according to description) but i wouldnt be suprised if they are also actually smaller

3 hours ago, Platypusbill said:

What I meant by 150mm+ (am I misusing this?) is "150mm or more".

Has it been ever been tested if 15cm guns are actully modeled as the real caliber of 149mm? If not, I'd appreciate it if someone tried it.

I know Soviet 152s are actually 152,4mm, I ran a test where I shot at a 50,8mm (2 inch) plate at an extreme angle with a 152 derp and it penetrated. Some armour thicknesses originally measured in inches are rounded to whole millimeters, though.

 

I could swear it was even ingame (but its not) and it should also be in some table with shell speed or so (ofc not the official wg  or wiki crap, but some data mined table)

gonna google it, now im curious

Edit: i think i remember, the 149mm shell was (i think) listed in the table with how much module damage shells do, im talking about this table (its an in complete copy i once made)

75 mm   100
76 mm   105
88 mm   119
90 mm   122
100 mm  135
105 mm  150
122 mm  165
128 mm  180
152 mm  203

Edit 2: it isnt, just checked wot-news, and there its just 150mm with 203 module dmg

 

[MacusFlash 2,270]

41 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

That can also be because US guns are not 120mm, but 4.72 inch, which is 119.88mm

UK and france do use 120mm (according to description) but i wouldnt be suprised if they are also actually smaller

How about Indien-Panzer (90mm gun) versus 30mm plate?

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

7 minutes ago, MacusFlash said:

How about Indien-Panzer (90mm gun) versus 30mm plate?

yeah, that should work, and so should german 75mm guns vs 25mm plate

[Fabunil 1,597]

1 hour ago, GehakteMolen said:

That can also be because US guns are not 120mm, but 4.72 inch, which is 119.88mm

UK and france do use 120mm (according to description) but i wouldnt be suprised if they are also actually smaller

I could swear it was even ingame (but its not) and it should also be in some table with shell speed or so (ofc not the official wg  or wiki crap, but some data mined table)

gonna google it, now im curious

 

What is important is the calibre of the guns as they are listed ingame, not how they were irl.

Ingame all 105mm-Guns will riccochet off the leopards 35mm sidearmor whereas the T-150s 107mm gun will autopen, all 120mm-guns will riccochet off the the Tiger-II Roff whereas 122mm-guns will overmatch and the T92 will riccochet off the 140s 80-mm sidearmor assuming it hits it.

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

42 minutes ago, Fabunil said:

What is important is the calibre of the guns as they are listed ingame, not how they were irl.

Ingame all 105mm-Guns will riccochet off the leopards 35mm sidearmor whereas the T-150s 107mm gun will autopen, all 120mm-guns will riccochet off the the Tiger-II Roff whereas 122mm-guns will overmatch and the T92 will riccochet off the 140s 80-mm sidearmor assuming it hits it.

but thats the point, WG always uses/used the real values, even if they where not listed in game (they where round off) a black prince has 152,4 mm front armor, not 152mm as tanks.gg says, unless ofc WG changed all the values (Not that much work, so i can imagine they at some point did that)

if ALSO applies to bouncing, i think loofah (or someone else) once tested 2 different 150mm guns, a KV2 and a E100 or so, and the E100 bounced, because hurr durr 50,8 mm (while 51 listed) while the KV2 penned (because 152,4 DOES pen 50,8, same we have ingame 76 and 76,2mm shell afaik

edit: its first link on google:

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/247521-the-silly-overmatch-system/

So in 2013 WG still used the super mega ultra accurate measurments, of 76,2mm shells and 152,4 mm thick armor plates...

EDIT: i will just browse a bit through the installer and see whats there, already found german tier 8 heavy Typ 205 so i guess we really get a new tier 8 and 9 maus-like things, just need to find the gun or ammo file