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leggasiini

Leo, tier 7 medium

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5 minutes ago, EricBrogar said:

What you get from the turret you lose from hull and moving.

Not really. The difference in hull and track traverse is 0.02 while turret is 0.04. Even if the dispersion values canceled each other out (but turret dispersion is imho more important than track) then you still have better aim time and better base acc 

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13 hours ago, EricBrogar said:

Still I am not convinced that the Leo will be any more pleasant than the A-44. In addition to that, btw, the armor is penned by 40mm HE pen :/

Leo is straight between T20 and A-44 in everything except armor.

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33 minutes ago, nemlengyel said:

You mean between the best and the worst t7 meds? :doge: 

0.38>0.42>0.45

2.3>3>3.4

soft gun stats same

camo wise,

T20>Leo>A 44

I admit that T20 is still the best tier 7 med, but tier 7-8 meds are shit tiers (except 416). Your statement that Leo is between best (T20, 34-1 and still Comet) and worst ring true...but your implication of A-44 as later is not...:rabble1:

Pseudo heavy A-44 is not a bad tank, and certainly not one of the worst tier 7 meds. It is simply awkward to play, the same way a 40 years old car is awkward to drive as a daily drive for years, but hell, i do it (Land Rover, 8 years and 150 k km). When you learn to live without power brakes/servo/windows as sliding panels, or any kind of heating (or useful lights), you feel right at home driving A-44. You just have to leverage its strengths (not many, but useful), and get yourself in that kind of situation (i. e. not on highway, but deep in mud/sand. Just today I was off-roading in mud and hunting some birds), and it will shine.

T20 actually dies much faster if caught in wrong spot (or oneshot by arty, which happens rarely in A-44...though you probably burn, but your crew learn to love roasting by that point, anyway).

It is just that ppl rarely drive them to city, since "find ridge/bush, and snipe" comes much easier than "I should sidescrape and hide my lower plate, trade shots with pew pew guns, despite being a medium", or "my camo is here not to bush snipe from useless distance, but to relocate unnoticed, or to ambush ppl using hin-n run tactic", or facehug ppl (they can not back away since you are faster than any tank in game in reverse), and RAM!!!!!!

Leo will have a unique gameplay, and be very strong against tanks that it can penetrate without aiming for any sort or weakspots (enemy meds if you can trade shots, instead of dogfights, but because of the limited mm tier 8 buffed heavies spam, it will be very annoying to play when not top tier, or good map.

Tonight had quite a few games where WZ-111, IS-6, IS3-A, KV-5 and an odd 112 (+of course, the ever present IS-3) were like 1/3 of tanks game after game, and heavies were 1/2-2/3 of mm. Not much fun with Leo penetration.

P.S.

WZ 111 is AWESOMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

112 that trades overbuffed armor for speed and gun that can actually snapshot (that sweet IS-6 tears when you snapshot him with HEAT shot after shot, and he can not penetrate you at all, just angled on flat ground, LFP at 200+ mm, lol...)

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On 12/15/2016 at 1:24 AM, leggasiini said:

Now you mentioned that its actually pretty damn true

Doesnt Leo have better RoF, even?

Nope. TVP VTU's 105mm has been buffed, it fires faster and has improved handling compared to the past. TVP VTU also has much, much, much better gun handling. better bloom values, vstab compatible, much lower aim time and final accuracy. Lack of depression isn't that big an issue since leo doesn't have the tools to put that depression to use with the 105. TVP VTU is tier for tier, a (significantly) better tank than leo, if both use the 105.

I'm hating the leo right now; it is just so hapless against IS-3/IS-6s, let alone tier 9s. The gun is too derpy, and turret armor too crap for minimizing exposure. It feels like the pre-buff indien panzer; of having depression, but not the gun handling/turret armor to do anything with it. Gold ammo being worthless against most high tiers, and having too garbage handling to hit moving flank shots 50m away sucks.

At this point... I feel like the 75mm of Strv 74 might actually be a better gun. It would make the leo be a comet with HE vulnerable cardboard armor, in exchange for improved gun handling. The sad thing is.. leo actually get worse handling, less depression, worse turret protection with that gun.. when compared to Strv 74. Give the Strv 74 just 300 extra hp and it would already outclass leo.

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After the very pleasant Strv 74 the Leo is just a horror. The gun meatball shooter is a horror. I like the alpha, but the rest is horrible. Utterly horrible for a paper tank. You need to take the time to aim and when you do you get penned and fucked. ROF, turret traverse etc. is not good enough to brawl reliably, especially with the potato handling and bad pen. In tier 8 games you run from every Soviet heavy and use a lot of ACPR because you can't afford to bounce with over 9 second reload. In tier 9 games you just get fucked every time and struggle to do damage if you are unlucky with the engagements. 

I'm interested to see how you get on with the 75mm gun Hally, since I might be headed down that road as well soon...

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55 minutes ago, nemlengyel said:

Saw a streamer come across a Leo yesterday:

"what the fuck is this Leo? oh it's the tier 7 swedish shit"

Were you watching Spaz? I swear he said something like that yesterday.

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I've tried the 75mm out. Feels better mostly. At least snapping and shooting on the move works. Sort of. Alpha is horrid, of course, but the other gun has 0 alpha in so many shot as the meatball it shoots hits the international space station.

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Solo grinded the leo from stock and without 6th sense (got it halfway) to elite in 65 games thanks to boosters. Always played with the second 75mm gun, ended up with 1449 dpg and 63% wr.

I didnt mind it as much. Speed was great, camo values and good gun depression were awesome. Playable, but not a keeper, it aint no T20!

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11 hours ago, Kymrel said:

I'm interested to see how you get on with the 75mm gun Hally, since I might be headed down that road as well soon...

I tried it, it's a lot better. 3.57s reload for 150 dmg isn't bad, when you factor in the fact that you can get two aimed shots off before the 105 even finish aiming. So you didn't really miss out on the alpha, and now has much better dpm/accuracy to work with. Gun handling is still ghetto compared to strv 74, but at least it is actually workable now. I'm using a 4 skill crew with vents/gld/food; the gun handling on the 105 is still absolute trash. I think my T34 premium is actually more accurate at snap shotting than that gun.

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I take my word back, this is a much shittier comet with the 75mm. The turret traverse is awful, it won't turn fast enough when doing a run by flanking attack. Most of the tank is made of engine hitbox; with large frontal transmission and huge engine on the rear... middle is fuel tanks. Double engine breakdowns are frequent if hit; and not unusual to lose tracks + engine + ammo rack in a single hit. This huge engine issue makes close range knife fighting poor in general compared to the comet.

At this point, I feel like this is the absolute worst tier 7 this line has to offer, and worth free exping past. It is giving me such a miserable time that I'm starting to miss the challenger.... 8x tier 9 battles in a row doesn't help.

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7 hours ago, leggasiini said:

Guysss the 105mm is much better, you just need cover and do short range peek-a-boo battles with tanks you can outtrade with that alpha :P 

 

Except the 105mm won't even hit a target 50m away most of the time without sitting still and aim. With the penetration it gets, you can't just load gold and click hull like a T34 either, you'd actually need to aim for a weakspots... (or just crap your pants when you see tier 8/9s because you can't even pen weakspots on many of them.)

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Done 65k in Leo and will do the rest also without freexping it. The tank is average at best because all the reasons already mentioned in the thread. I'm runnin the potato shooter with food. What has made this tank playable for me is the size, speed and depression. Yes, IS3/6, KV4/5 are horrible to fight against (I just run away from most semi armored t9s) but as top tier you can trade nicely. Platooned with a friend yesterday and completely eradicated batchat ap without taking a single hit between us(I was with the 100 he was with the 75).

However I must admit, the main reason why I sorta like playing it has been absolutely terrific MM. I feel I have burned a years worth of karma. If I had to guess, I'd say I have been top tier about 75% of the games and quite a few ones out of those I've been one of the 3-4 t7s. 

PS. 100mm gun sets t5-6 shit on fire all the time. Either just RNG or confirmation bias but having played 60 games, I keep setting tanks on fire frontally with amazing consistency.

Edit: Checked the 100m module damage - 150 according to tanks.gg. That would explain the inferno.

Edited by Vesirott
reasons

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4 hours ago, Vesirott said:

 

However I must admit, the main reason why I sorta like playing it has been absolutely terrific MM. I feel I have burned a years worth of karma. If I had to guess, I'd say I have been top tier about 75% of the games and quite a few ones out of those I've been one of the 3-4 t7s. 

 

Yeah, my decision to pull the trigger on free XP was after repeatedly encountering IS-3s, IS-6s and KV-5s and repeatedly bouncing APCR off them. On the other hand, my Ace Tanker game (in my replay thread) was me doing almost 4K, out of which about 2.5-3K was to Tier 9s who decided to ignore me.

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On 12/14/2016 at 11:15 AM, nemlengyel said:

so, basically t20 which trades 'murican APCR for alpha?

How dare you compare the T20 with this piece of fucking ebola. This has to be one of the shittiest tanks I played at this tier.

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