Jump to content
leggasiini

EMIL I and EMIL II: tier 8 & 9 heavies

Recommended Posts

Threw away an easy Kolobanov in the Emil I because I was too stupid to realise the turret's closer to the middle of the hull rather than the front, thus giving an enemy a free lower plate shot. 113 all over again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finished up my Emil I! It was fairly enjoyable, although more often than not I found myself wishing I was just in a T32. Stock grind included, I finished it at 2150 dpg/63%, mostly solo. Kind of disappointing compared to my T69's 2500 DPG/76%, but considering I'm not blowing millions on HEAT I think I'll take it.

Armor + autoloader is a killer combination - bursting 1300 onto people who have no way of fighting back is a good way to start a snowball - but in the Emil's case its a fairly unreliable gimmick. 230mm of turret armor isn't quite enough to remain reliable even against your peers' standard rounds, and anyone who's driven enough to want to pen you will have very little trouble doing it with premium ammo.

The tank is trashgarbage in every other aspect - the gun has terrible handling and low pen, it's not very mobile, it has very little HP and bad hull armor (those 20mm sides...), bad view range, and gets crushed if a heavy bumps it - but the turret and autoloader really carry it through to make it a pretty acceptable T8 HT. I dont think it's a great tank because it relies on features that don't work against half of its opponents, but I'd take it over something like the KT/VKA/etc. anyday. It's not bad at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Rexxie said:

Finished up my Emil I! It was fairly enjoyable, although more often than not I found myself wishing I was just in a T32. Stock grind included, I finished it at 2150 dpg/63%, mostly solo. Kind of disappointing compared to my T69's 2500 DPG/76%, but considering I'm not blowing millions on HEAT I think I'll take it.

Armor + autoloader is a killer combination - bursting 1300 onto people who have no way of fighting back is a good way to start a snowball - but in the Emil's case its a fairly unreliable gimmick. 230mm of turret armor isn't quite enough to remain reliable even against your peers' standard rounds, and anyone who's driven enough to want to pen you will have very little trouble doing it with premium ammo.

The tank is trashgarbage in every other aspect - the gun has terrible handling and low pen, it's not very mobile, it has very little HP and bad hull armor (those 20mm sides...), bad view range, and gets crushed if a heavy bumps it - but the turret and autoloader really carry it through to make it a pretty acceptable T8 HT. I dont think it's a great tank because it relies on features that don't work against half of its opponents, but I'd take it over something like the KT/VKA/etc. anyday. It's not bad at all.

Nicely written.

I wait for your opinion on Emil 2. 50 K exp to unlock it.

I am looking for a keeper in the line, and so far have not found it (may revert to tier 6, but it is still kinda lame compared to Crommie).

P.S. VKA is getting a buff next patch, E-50 style. Armor from lower plate gets moved to the upper plate. 

Tank is meh in plenty of categories, but i have a rather warm opinion of it, partially due to it being my first true heavium. 

VK 45.02 (P) Ausf. A 
– Penetration of Pzgr 40 for 8.8 cm Kw.K. 36 L / 56 was changed from 171 mm to 194 mm 
– Angles of elevation and depression of guns changed both towers from -6 to -8. 
– Upper plate armor is changed from 120 to 150 mm 
– Lower plate armor changed from 120 to 100 mm 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy for the VKA buffs! I wish they gave it major gun buffs instead, though. Making every T8 heavy invulnerable to T6/7s is not the way to go, imho. Would be really cool to have high dpm and great handling on the VKA's gun.

Anyway, first impressions of the Emil 2 are very good. The turret is slightly worse than I expected (330/340 HEAT can find its way through every couple shots), but otherwise it really does fix all my problems with the Emil 1. It's finally has competitive pen against T10s, the hull trolls shots far more often than the Emil 1's, and I have never had my turret penned by an AP/APCR round.

One thing I will mention is that the stock grind is rough, so reserve judgement until you've finished the grind. Not just because of the gun, but because this is miserably slow with the stock engine and tracks. Usually you can just grab the gun and get a good idea of how a tank will perform, but this tank benefits from its engine/tracks to an extreme degree. Autoloaders thrive on their mobility, getting the gun in the right place is the difference between trading shots with an IS-7 and shutting down an entire flank. You just can't do that moseying around like an E-100. I went from sub-2k dpg stock, to ~2.5k with the 120, to over 3k DPG with the engine and tracks.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Rexxie said:

I'm happy for the VKA buffs! I wish they gave it major gun buffs instead, though. Making every T8 heavy invulnerable to T6/7s is not the way to go, imho. Would be really cool to have high dpm and great handling on the VKA's gun.

Anyway, first impressions of the Emil 2 are very good. The turret is slightly worse than I expected (330/340 HEAT can find its way through every couple shots), but otherwise it really does fix all my problems with the Emil 1. It's finally has competitive pen against T10s, the hull trolls shots far more often than the Emil 1's, and I have never had my turret penned by an AP/APCR round.

One thing I will mention is that the stock grind is rough, so reserve judgement until you've finished the grind. Not just because of the gun, but because this is miserably slow with the stock engine and tracks. Usually you can just grab the gun and get a good idea of how a tank will perform, but this tank benefits from its engine/tracks to an extreme degree. Autoloaders thrive on their mobility, getting the gun in the right place is the difference between trading shots with an IS-7 and shutting down an entire flank. You just can't do that moseying around like an E-100. I went from sub-2k dpg stock, to ~2.5k with the 120, to over 3k DPG with the engine and tracks.

 

They are not making it invulnerable to tier 6/7, quite the opposite! As of now, tier 6/7 can damage it auto-aiming with goldspam (if gold is good enough), but if you have bad gold penetration, or are poor to shoot , you are fucked. Even best gold in 6/7 generally hovers around 200, so rng trolls both.

Weaker LFP/stronger UFP is the KT/E-50 treatment, and it benefits all the tanks on which is performed a lot...but is also good for gameplay, since it rewards skill and aiming (VK-B LFP is just stupid, IMHO, bad to play against, but bad to play one, too -  weak sides make the tank a juicy target for arty, and you can be flanked by anything not a brick-heavy, like T-10 or WZ 111 1-4 even).

Gold will be way less effective against VKA UFP, while AP will pen LFP always, same as KT.  Guns like ISU slice them up both, but even rhm will have to be careful against angled UFP, while shooting AP.

nerf to VK-B LFP is more than offset with increased side armor, removal of UFP weakspots like MG port, and buff to gun stats (both soft and hard, pretty much everything other than the reload).

Sry for off-topic.

Emil II engine/track: Leo flashback? Very slow stock tank , but Emil I was not that slow stock. sure, it had accel of an E-75 (so yes, sometimes I had traded shots 2 for 1 because of slow speed), but top engine and track was not a huge improvement, maybe because on Emil 2 you get about 3.5 hp/t more with top engine, while on Emil 1 it is a little less than 2 hp/t?

I have 100 k free exp thanks to 3x weekends, E-25, Patriot and reserves...I plan on dumping a lot of it on gun and engine (at least), since this is my only grind, but free-exping the tracks is wasteful, especially since it does not even use an eq slot to mount torsion bars.

But have you tried the top engine/stock suspension combo? Both gun and engine fit nicely with a lot of weight to spare (even spall liner, lol) - top gun is a good deal lighter than the stock one), and there is no gun handling improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Felicius said:

They are not making it invulnerable to tier 6/7, quite the opposite! As of now, tier 6/7 can damage it auto-aiming with goldspam (if gold is good enough), but if you have bad gold penetration, or are poor to shoot , you are fucked. Even best gold in 6/7 generally hovers around 200, so rng trolls both.

True true, forgot about the LFP!

8 hours ago, Felicius said:

Emil II engine/track: Leo flashback? Very slow stock tank , but Emil I was not that slow stock. sure, it had accel of an E-75 (so yes, sometimes I had traded shots 2 for 1 because of slow speed), but top engine and track was not a huge improvement, maybe because on Emil 2 you get about 3.5 hp/t more with top engine, while on Emil 1 it is a little less than 2 hp/t?

But have you tried the top engine/stock suspension combo? Both gun and engine fit nicely with a lot of weight to spare (even spall liner, lol) - top gun is a good deal lighter than the stock one), and there is no gun handling improvement.

That's probably it. The stock Emil 2 has worse terrain resistance and lower HP/ton than the stock Emil 1, so the lack of mobility is more noticeable.

I did, it was definitely a sigh of relief to see that the top gun was lighter. I wouldn't bother free XPing the tracks, but would still pick them up when you've ground enough standard XP. The tank gets quite a bit more agile with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am doing the emil 2 grind at the moment and I have to say that it really is a boring boring tank to play just like the Emil 1 was. 

The good thing about the Emil 1 say compared to a 50 100 is the clip reload time. but once you get up to the emil 2, meh....

40 battles in and im around 3.2-3.3 damage, I am to lazy to check and around 65-70% win rate in it but I dont enjoy playing it at all.

Its slow even fully upgraded, the gun is horrible, the pen is mehh, the shell velocity is mehh, and it really is a one trick pony.

 

I have played the kranvagn on my press account and WGL account and except for certain situations I would rather be in a 50B 85% off the time.

I kind of feel the same with the emil 2. I would almost rather even be in a 50120 due to gun/speed if I had to compare auto loaders.

It's just a one trick pony, if you get maps like westfield well :tanfiesta:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rexxie said:

True true, forgot about the LFP!

That's probably it. The stock Emil 2 has worse terrain resistance and lower HP/ton than the stock Emil 1, so the lack of mobility is more noticeable.

I did, it was definitely a sigh of relief to see that the top gun was lighter. I wouldn't bother free XPing the tracks, but would still pick them up when you've ground enough standard XP. The tank gets quite a bit more agile with them.

My OCD disorder agrees with you. I elite even tier 3 tanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So given that there is more experience of the Emil 1 now, I'm wondering about crew skills.

I have my female crew in mine and the Commander has 6th and is working on Repairs and I guess vision perks after that.

I assume Snapshot first and then Repairs on the gunner? I've also read the gun breaks a lot on this tank - is Armourer essential after Repairs or does it need Safe Stowage next?

For the driver, does it need Preventative Maintenance - given it is a perk is it best to take that and the progress through Repairs?

I do plan to progress to the Kranvagn eventually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emil I game. Base exp 1488, and got 1st class, with three kills and 4,828 damage. Clearly there are some very good players acing it on EU.

http://wotreplays.com/site/3358700#fjords-arthurwellsley-emil_i

was 6,696 exp with triple exp for first win and over 7k crew exp for tott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2017 at 5:15 PM, Epic said:

15bf5b6544.png

My kranvagn crew, but I will do same again for my Emil I.

Good crew, but commander has better skills than SS. Gunner has far less, after first 3 skills, others are useless.

You could have trained recon, and dropped armorer. It helps only 25% of the damaged gun penalty, so basically useless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sold both Emils last night to fund my Kranvagn purchase. Despite having among my best stats in the pair, I didn't really enjoy playing either. Certainly wouldn't go to the effort of training up a new crew for either.

First impression of the Kranvagn is good. Very good in fact. But I don't have a 50B to compare it to. Be nice if the Emil II was something other than a seriously gimped version of the Kran. Just having a tough turret face isn't enough to make a tank a keeper. And at Tier 8 I'd rather be in an IS-3 or T32 than the Emil I.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BlackAdder said:

Can i mount engine/gun without tracks? Or at least engine to make it more manageable

uqrlNrY.jpg

 

You can mount engine (in my configuration) but gun is 25kg over limit, so i can drop engine before getting tracks in favour of gun. 

NOPE!

Top gun is not that much better if you spam gold from shock one (longer aim time sucks, and APCR is just 18 mm worse than top gun gold shells). But engine is way more important, and it lets you keep the (just slightly inferior) gun in play for more.

In fact, my bro used the top gun/stock engine, and I the other way. beside way less free exp, i performed better, because you can flank slower tanks, while with stock engine you are slower than E-75.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Felicius said:

NOPE!

Top gun is not that much better if you spam gold from shock one (longer aim time sucks, and APCR is just 18 mm worse than top gun gold shells). But engine is way more important, and it lets you keep the (just slightly inferior) gun in play for more.

In fact, my bro used the top gun/stock engine, and I the other way. beside way less free exp, i performed better, because you can flank slower tanks, while with stock engine you are slower than E-75.

 

I bought an engine, and now is manageable, they really hit Swedes with nerf. But the thing is fuckin ridiculous. bouncing TDs and fuckin T8 tanks like there is no tomorrow. Todays DPG is @ ~3000, but overall I think will be ~2400. Insane tank.

 

@ top gun, I like additional no cost PEN, this 180 CR is really low when you fire AP only. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BlackAdder said:

I bought an engine, and now is manageable, they really hit Swedes with nerf. But the thing is fuckin ridiculous. bouncing TDs and fuckin T8 tanks like there is no tomorrow. Todays DPG is @ ~3000, but overall I think will be ~2400. Insane tank.

 

@ top gun, I like additional no cost PEN, this 180 CR is really low when you fire AP only. 

Wrong:trump:.

You should run the prem APCR as regular shells with the top gun, with one clip of HE, and 2-3 clips of regular APCR for one in 20 matches with only meds in enemy team.

217 APCR is ghetto...much worse than KV-5/IS-6 due to bad gun handling, and if you bounce half a clip....besides, you can not know whom you will face with 30 sc reload. IS-3 will laugh at 217, along with pretty much every tier 8 heavy, and some tier 7s. 180/217 (and that is AP vs APCR, and also there is worse aim time) is the same - for the targets i can not pen with 180, shooting with 217 would be marginally better, but not effective.

besides, Emil 1 is not Kran or emil 2. Exposure matters, and your turret is far from invincible, even top tier. 

HE is usefull once in 5 matches to spam a bit on very hard turrets, or to clip some paper tanks you would not be able to clip with APCR end game in a 1 vs 1 situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Felicius said:

HE is usefull once in 5 matches to spam a bit on very hard turrets, or to clip some paper tanks you would not be able to clip with APCR end game in a 1 vs 1 situation.

Do I look like legassiini to you :D 

No HE except some big guns or LTs like M41 GetFucked for lightly armored G15/SG/RHM... 

 

About premium APCR, I will see how regular stack up against other tanks. I tend to carry more GOLD with fragile autoloaders like 50100/120/50B/BC. But I'm still 40K away from top gun :D 

 

Can't wait for my profile unban, this tank is really good T8, a most def keeper for me. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BlackAdder said:

Do I look like legassiini to you :D 

No HE except some big guns or LTs like M41 GetFucked for lightly armored G15/SG/RHM... 

 

About premium APCR, I will see how regular stack up against other tanks. I tend to carry more GOLD with fragile autoloaders like 50100/120/50B/BC. But I'm still 40K away from top gun :D 

 

Can't wait for my profile unban, this tank is really good T8, a most def keeper for me. 

 

You can do much better with fragile autoloaders with just AP. 50 100 has almost as good AP as Emil 1 has gold APCR on top gun+it is more mobile, meaning you flank way more + can afford to bounce 1-2 shells in a mag. It has also better aim time, lol.

HE is underestimated, but i use it rarely. There are right situations for it. How many times good players failed to finish me when i had one single hp left..I just hear the sizzling of HEAT or bouncing shells.

Also, very often you got nothing to lose, and plenty to gain, especially 1 vs 1. For instance, enemy has too much hp for ap7apcr7heat, but MIGHT be one-shotted by HE. So, HE 1st, the regular shell pre-selected 2nd. If there is not HE pen, splash is good enough to bring the enemy to hitpoints for regular shells.

Of course, common sense applies, 88/100 mm HE is generally bad, while 85/105/122/150/152 is good...some 75/76 mm have terrible HE, some quite good...for instance, M1A1: 115/185 vs l70: 135/175, 180/300 for 85 mm, while just 240/280 for 88 mm....

But even the worst HE shells are worth picking up 1-2 pieces, unless you have problems with ammo capacity. Emils do not lack it. Obj 416 do.

Too many good players (I remembered Garbad) rarely carried HE, to their occasional inconvenience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...