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3MAJ86

TD Meta is back on EU

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I don't know have you noticed, but lately T8+ games are infested with TDs on EU. And the number of T10 matches overall is higher, I believe that people are sick of CW campaign in T8, so they play T10s for relaxation. I know the grille is top of the tree, although the trend started a bit earlier, like I month ago I noticed.

 

Yes, you might notice that I contribute to it as well, although it just happened to be the case that each screenshot I took, I was in a TD as well.

 

I now remember the dark days of previous round of TD meta. I dare to say that this is worse than arty meta. Number of draws have increased and most of the time it's 15 minute campfest, because, naturally, nobody wants to poke just to have his tank insta-returned to garage.

 

Most of the matches look like this: (warning, contains disturbing images)

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and this is how majority of those battles end up.... Effectively 7 tier 10s with 0 or one shot worth of damage.

r6v8x83.jpg

And no, I'm not driving TDs only, so I don't contribute (as) much... and yeah, i have 30% win rate...

Qip19yW.png

 

 

Do you have the same impression? Do you think this will end, with the end of Grille top of the tree?

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Because Grille is top of the tree, there are missions for it so that'd explain the high numbers of Grilles, and Skorp G is new, so there'd be a few more players playing TDs because of that.

Conclusion: seal club at low tiers :disco:

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Yeah, i think this is not staying. Grille top of tree + Skorpion G so there is severe TD invasion at higher tiers.

Wait when Grille top of tree is over and Skorpions start to get little less frequent then everything is back to normal, or atleast should be.

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53 minutes ago, Inciatus said:

NA doesn't have the top of tree thing happening

Yours is called something else but you have an equivalent, NA 'promos' tend to be different to EU. Think the Yanks call it 'On Track' discount rather than top of the tree

3 hours ago, Zezti said:

Because Grille is top of the tree

This, it was the case a few months ago with the JPzE100 too

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2 minutes ago, It's_Matra said:

Yours is called something else but you have an equivalent, NA 'promos' tend to be different to EU. Think the Yanks call it 'On Track' discount rather than top of the tree

This, it was the case a few months ago with the JPzE100 too

I am aware, it is currently the obj 140 and not a TD which was the distiction I was trying to make. We also didnt have the on track in August or July.

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I trully hope so, since it's not only grilles that have overtaken the top tiers. In past few weeks i've seen more 4005s than in the entire period since it's release.

And yeah I'm playing the grille, crew bonus is nice. Also, I just wanted my daily x3, but took me 6-7 games to do so (hence 30% win rate). Fuck me, right?

 

 

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Tier 10 TDs have never really been unpopular, you always see plenty of JpE100s, plenty of Grilles anyway (even before TOTT).

Bobs like them because of big guns, though too many of them in a team usually leads to a loss because they all camp and surrender map control. 

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Would TDs be as popular if the maps wouldn't thunnel ennemies to the bases which are filled with bushes or hills to hide behind? Obviously not. It is a popular class with the simple minded. Only arty tops it in inaction. Although they have not much options where to camp which makes them easy to predict ... but not the Grille which can go 60 km/h to put nasty 750 dmg in meds going for crucial positions.

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Exactly that is the reason why this matches, at least from my point of view, are more cancerous than those with 3+ arty (which is like 90% of the T8+ matches on EU).

 

Mostly arty players have switched to TDs, and now you have less arties but more TDs, and even if you know exact TD camp spots, without arty to click them out nobody will move out of cover. They got insta-vaporized. With arty, you are playing russian roulette, with TDs, you will get blapped for sure, so the camping increases.

 

I really hope that this is only due to the TOTT event this month. And one more thing, have you noticed that they skipped Arty month? :) Next TOTT will be heavy!

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, MonoPanda said:

Would TDs be as popular if the maps wouldn't thunnel ennemies to the bases which are filled with bushes or hills to hide behind? Obviously not. It is a popular class with the simple minded. Only arty tops it in inaction. Although they have not much options where to camp which makes them easy to predict ... but not the Grille which can go 60 km/h to put nasty 750 dmg in meds going for crucial positions.

We have tunnel maps to fuck TDs, so be glad we have that

What many call ``vision meta`` was more or less: ``camp in a tier 10 TD or go home``, or even shorter: ``you try? you die!`` it was 100% camp2win, and that was 50% because of all the turds in tier 10 TDs (and 50% because of arty)

WG will also never be able to fix tier 10 TDs, assuming they want to keep them sort of playable (many tier 10 TDs are alrdy shit or close to shit, yet they are still quite popular, so futher nerfing is almost impossible)

I wont derail this topic with an ``sandbox is awesome``, but the entire tier 10 TD problem got fixed on sandbox.... (they are more fun to play, and more fun to fight, and NO, just copy pasting those TD changes wont work, since its the complete package that makes it ``work``...)

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23 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

I wont derail this topic with an ``sandbox is awesome``, but the entire tier 10 TD problem got fixed on sandbox.... (they are more fun to play, and more fun to fight, and NO, just copy pasting those TD changes wont work, since its the complete package that makes it ``work``...)

With risk of derailment.. Could you elaborate on how they have changed TDs on sandbox?

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

With risk of derailment.. Could you elaborate on how they have changed TDs on sandbox?

  • Fv-4005: lost its premium ammo, AP dmg nerfed from 1150 to 950, got a mobility buff and full turret (its still a bad TD)
  • Fv -183: lost its premium ammo, AP dmg nerfed from 1150 to 950, got 2300 hp now (and a small armor buff due to HD model)
  • Jp-E100: pen nerf and 1050 -> 850 alpha dmg (indirect armor buff due to all the pen nerfs)
  • E3: lost the 155mm gun, got 120mm gun, (about the same as E5) also gained hp, has now 2400 or 2500 hp
  • E4: lost accuracy, gained aim time (so its about the same close range, but awefull long range) alpha dmg from 750 to 700 and hp buff to 2500
  • Foch-155, got a new gun, 4x120mm, and massive hp buff, 2350 hp now
  • 268: massive accuracy and aim time buff, hp nerf and mobility nerf (or is it also slow as hell on live server)
  • 263: 2300 hp. 500 alpha dmg (instead of 560) and mobility nerf
  • Grille: massive accuracy and aim time buff, hp nerf (1600 now) 

TDs are now either bricks (the 183, Jp-E100, E3 and E4) snipers (268, grille) a big in between 263, foch-155, or turd (Fv 4005) they now all offer distinct playstyles, like how the tier 9 are all distinct, while ALSO beiing balanced against eachother AND balanced against tier 10 heavys and mediums.

on live server the only TD not beiing torture (to play) would be E4, and perhaps 263, if you like the playstyle, everything else is either bad, awefull, or sub-par (an E100 makes the E3, E4, 183 and Jp-E100 obsolete, and any tier 10 med makes the ``sniper tds`` pointless

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41 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

Dont forget that FV4005 got more turret arc and depression, and that the Grille was significantly less mobile and had less DPM.

Also didnt Jageru get gigantic acc buffs too?

Oh, could be, Jag E100 was trully awefull the first version i played it, the faster game play makes its overall slowness even more annoying and when you also loose ur hp and alpha dmg advantage, it becomes quite a crappy TD (only played it 3 games i think, was enough to know that it certainly wont be ``OP`` in anyway or shape :P )

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Grille is top of the tree, but it will stay popular afterwards for some time, like waffle E 100 was. Thing is, ppl are doing terrible in it, unless blue of unica. Skorp too. They fail in dealing with bad camo/view range, but can not utilize mobility (other than to yolorush and die in 2 min) so they camp unsuccessfully, get spotted and artied. when i play E 5/ 50M i rely on spotting them for arty heavily...while their arty slap me for 500 on occasion, they mostly get one-shotted.

E5 or a proper medium like Skodas/E 50 m/ hovermeds can fuck up camping tds rly good. map control, vision, mobility (and in case of E 5 bullshit armor) means you have the initiative. just adapt. Tanks that are flexible do well, while slow brick heavies like E 100 not so much anymore, even with 1000 HE round, grille if hulldown is too small target for 0.4 derp

In fact, on most maps team with 5 heavies in tiers 9/10 in tier 10 battle trumps other team with no top tier heavies almost always, unless sand river assault mode.

TD infestation let the mediums and heavies play even better if you have a good tank to do so. It is easier to solo a Grille than a properly played hovermed. 

besides, even among bad players in pube sometimes medium wolfpacks are created spontaneously, and that is a death sentence against a solo player in a heavy/slower med. Tds usually play way less coordinated, they just camp in groups often.

Overall, there is a higher arty presence, too, 3-4 per match usually. If the prey multiplies, the increase in number of predators is to be expected. Picking a not-paper-td-with-crap-camo tank eases the arty attention to the point of being ignored mostly. my E 5 and 50 M are grateful.

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only it is not like that.

 

When you have 7 or more TDs in each team, and each deals 750 or more dmg from single shot, nobody will poke any corner, nor dare to advance. And it literally becomes the game of nerve. Who will be pissed off more and just say "fuck it" and go into the open, hoping that friendly TDs will return fire as they themselves get obliterated in less than 2 seconds.

 

No, in most of the cases, E5/Škodas/hovermeds can't dig out TDs without losing at least half of own HP just for spotting or single shot worth of damage.

 

And that is why TD meta is even more camping than arty meta.

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21 hours ago, 3MAJ86 said:

only it is not like that.

 

When you have 7 or more TDs in each team, and each deals 750 or more dmg from single shot, nobody will poke any corner, nor dare to advance. And it literally becomes the game of nerve. Who will be pissed off more and just say "fuck it" and go into the open, hoping that friendly TDs will return fire as they themselves get obliterated in less than 2 seconds.

 

No, in most of the cases, E5/Škodas/hovermeds can't dig out TDs without losing at least half of own HP just for spotting or single shot worth of damage.

 

And that is why TD meta is even more camping than arty meta.

Well, even Himmelsdorf is won in most cases by med rush on the hill...Corridor meta is actually harsh on tds...yup, poking corner against 2-3 tds is suicide, but maps have more than 2 corners (usually. those that have are true cancer, i admit).

On 80% of the maps mobile heavies with usable armor (i.e. not Maus) still rule. Problem with lot of tds is that they camp al the time. Aggressive players (often unica) get killed fast if they autopilot to usual locations without carefully contemplating enemy team on startup. If i see a red grille or Jpe, i expect they will camp till they surrender 80% of the map to my team. unica grille will play it with great crew+food, and when i try to contest the usual med spot, I got 750 alpha waiting for me.

besides, yolorushing and wins by capping punish the td-heavy teams, you can outcap them often even when you are losing big on hitpoints/surviving tanks.

besides, arty does not prevent camping...but it DOES prevent the camping team to win battles if you 

1. lit them

2. they stay pretty much the same spot (camping tds).

because, medium tank once spotted will relocate a quarter of a map away, often in a corridor with hard cover. Tds like long lines of approach, where they can put at least 2 shots in approaching tanks (yeah, 2x 750...ouch)...but long lines of approach means they (usually) have little arty cover...they may have shallow ridge to hide them on reload from rushing meds, but they usually get obliterated by arty. Maps usually have 1-2 spots like that at most.

Do not take me wrong, you are right on some maps, quite a good deal is boring to play right now. But take Himmelsdorf/Kharkov, Serene Coast, tons of other maps...you have at least 3-4 lanes of approach. If they all camp in one, or even 2, you can still find a way around. 

Vision meta was golden age of tds. now they are blind, and have severe penalties if no turret. Grille is good because turret+mobility combo, gun is crap with arty level of bloom, terrible camo and very bad penetration on both rounds, same as heavies or meds...it even has 390 m view range, which is not bad compared to some other tds like Foch 155/Obj 268, but still worse than meds.

Do not forget...being on the receiving end of tds is hard sometimes...but playing them is a lot more frustrating very often. They are more on the mercy of rng/map rotation/enemy team composition...they have to rely on the team for support, shelter from flanking/spots...and they get steamrolled when the flank fails (except grille)...lights will die in first 2 min, after that is time to push, not before...conserve hp...

enemy team without heavies so often simply surrenders city part on maps like live oaks, highway, fishermans bay...and without meds hill on mines, live oaks rail, himmelsdorf hill...and el haluf td heavy team is fucked up, they can simply camp base, and wait to be surrounded, get inc crossfire from 3-4 sides and artied.

take for example lakeville, and base camping team.

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