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How useful 6th sense on HT, IS line? 

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How useful 6th sense on HT? 

in particular on IS line. I'm grinding from KV-13 to IS currently and training my future IS crew for it in IS-2 

got to 2nd skill and was planing to reset CM (with gold) to get 6th sense.. but posts like this http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/113531-is-crew-skillsperks/page__pid__1922843#entry1922843

make me doubt how valuable 6th on HT.  On scout, TD it's no-brainier, on MT... I'd say same... but how about HT and not just any HT (e.g. long-range support like US T34/T32 or German  Löwe )  but Russian brawler.   

 

My current Crew

 

Tank Role Skill 1 Skill 2 Skill 3 Req Battles Req XP
Tier 7, heavy IS-2 gunner.png Gunner brotherhood.png Brothers in Arms gunner_smoothTurret.png Snap Shot TBD  25%    
Tier 7, heavy IS-2 loader.png Loader brotherhood.png Brothers in Arms repair.png Repairs camouflage.png Camouflage 25%    
Tier 7, heavy IS-2 driver.png Driver brotherhood.png Brothers in Arms driver_badRoadsKing.png Off-Road Driving TBD  25%    
Tier 7, heavy IS-2 commander.png Commander brotherhood.png Brothers in Arms commander_tutor.png Mentor TBD  25%  

 

 

 

BiA actually skill "0" and by the time I'll open IS, I'll be ~ 50% on my 2nd skill... 

 

1.SO, should I just set rest of "TBD" to Repair to get it max. for this crew and do not reset CM?

 

2. I also have 70+K free xp and thinking about x5 convert event.. (at the moment it will get me to 98-99% on 2nd skill) so I could get mentor+6th without reset. Good idea?

 

3.How essential is Smooth Ride for Dr. ? I normally even don't try to shoot on the move..  except in F2F (e.g. circling in few meters) situations.

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extremely useful. so useful that it should always be the first skill you pick on any and every tank no matter what, with literally no exceptions at all, anyone that says anything different is flat out wrong.

I cant exactly argue with Carbon, but I'd go repairs and then gun handling skills over camo, on that tank. (so Snap shot, smooth ride, and safe stowage, though safe stowage is a perk so Id pick that over repairs for second skill and train repairs as third)

so you can decide to listen to me, or the god of internet tanks on that one lol.

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42 minutes ago, geek7 said:

2. I also have 70+K free xp and thinking about x5 convert event.. (at the moment it will get me to 98-99% on 2nd skill) so I could get mentor+6th without reset. Good idea?

 

3.How essential is Smooth Ride for Dr. ? I normally even don't try to shoot on the move..  except in F2F (e.g. circling in few meters) situations.

Firstly, do the math on Mentor to convince yourself its useless and never choose it again EVER.

Secondly, Smooth Ride has been shown to be less valuable than first thought.  It does have value as a 4/5 skill but should not be prioritized.

Thirdly, notwithstanding Carbon's (god of internet tanks) input;

Consider Assassin7's suggestion for Safe Stowage, and go repair 3rd on the loader (I normally do only cause you run out of useful loader skills quickly and getting it early saves a respec).

Then its fix/improve whatever fits your game... (you can get an earlier partial benefit of Carbon's camo recommendation) by switching up the snap/camo and Clutch/Camo order)  

BIA, Sixth, Repair, Camo

BIA, Repair, Snap, Camo

BIA, Repair, Clutch, Camo

BIA, Safe Stowage, Repair, Camo

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Sixth sense is superior to more or less every skill in the game, and is imo definite must on every tank as first skill. The absolute only expections are inaccurate arties that doesnt have gigantic splash (m44 being best example), where going for BiA as absolute first skill to maximize accuracy is an option over SS, but even still SS should be atleast considered

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17 hours ago, CarbonWard said:

Keep BiA, get 6th sense on cmdr, reroll every other crew member to repair, 3rd skill should be camo aside form cmdr, which should be repair.

BiA is fixed "0" skill, so I have no option to don't keep it.  

About "reroll every other crew member" - I have some gold and can do it (plan 4 Cmdr), but does camo so important for IS - it worth 200 gold to drop Snap Shot & Off-Road Driving for it?

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17 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

extremely useful. so useful that it should always be the first skill you pick on any and every tank no matter what, with literally no exceptions at all, anyone that says anything different is flat out wrong.

I cant exactly argue with Carbon, but I'd go repairs and then gun handling skills over camo, on that tank. (so Snap shot, smooth ride, and safe stowage, though safe stowage is a perk so Id pick that over repairs for second skill and train repairs as third)

so you can decide to listen to me, or the god of internet tanks on that one lol.

I've read very different opinions on  safe stowage

Does IS line get ammo rack so often?  12.5% doesn't seems a lot... worth more than 1/4 repair speed?

I'd hate to replace my binos with Wet Ammo Rack, but it's another 50% hp...

wonder if there statistics on tank/ammo rack %% per btl.

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My 2 cent. There are only 4 skills that are good in this game: 6th, repairs, camo and bia. The rest are flat out worse. On heavies u might want to skip camo for gunnery skills safe stowage ecc.

Keep in mind that on lower tiers view range is more important (up to tier 7 or 8 ) so camo is not a bad choice on an is or even an is3.

 

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17 hours ago, CarbonWard said:

Camo is mainly for consistency, such as making across Mountainpass 5 line without being spotted, extra camo skill goes a long way to not get a 0 dmg game.

I thought it depends on base camo rating.. e.g. essential to scout\TD, helps to MT.. but on Mouse it wouldn't matter.

I checked IS/IS-2 - 

7.80% 3.90% 1.48%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uO8L1bTAHFMtaiL-ovqesWqY3KkpeQJWmpwJFzLIvPc/edit#gid=1885142132

seems fit  in middle - not 25% of E-25 but not 1.5% of  Mouse.. ~8% - best on L7&up.. so, probably have big sense.. way more than on T34 :)

17 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

Firstly, do the math on Mentor to convince yourself its useless and never choose it again EVER.

Ok. 10% faster progress on 3/4 of the crew at price of 1/4 of repair/camo/etc. so, I'll get .75x.1 = .075 more at any point of time of 1st skill training at price of .25.. seems like no banner... 

now 2nd x2 XP of 1st  and  3rd x4 XP..so, having mentor by this time might actually payoff 

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45 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

My 2 cent. There are only 4 skills that are good in this game: 6th, repairs, camo and bia. The rest are flat out worse. On heavies u might want to skip camo for gunnery skills safe stowage ecc.

Keep in mind that on lower tiers view range is more important (up to tier 7 or 8 ) so camo is not a bad choice on an is or even an is3.

 

I noticed on T9&10 pretty much everybody got ~400m VR and camo ratings moving down.. but not suspected  camo get to the point of not playing role on T9/10

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34 minutes ago, geek7 said:

Ok. 10% faster progress on 3/4 of the crew at price of 1/4 of repair/camo/etc. so, I'll get .75x.1 = .075 more at any point of time of 1st skill training at price of .25.. seems like no banner... 

now 2nd x2 XP of 1st  and  3rd x4 XP..so, having mentor by this time might actually payoff 

I will be less dramatic and take back "useless", as it does come back somewhat to personal preference and judgement.

I ask myself;

1) Does the mentor skill directly help me fight my tank better?

2) Would increased (and relevant) commander skills improve in game performance leading to increased XP outstripping mentor?

3) Would increased (and relevant) commander skills improve survivability leading to increased XP over dying?

As a throw away skill (before respec) at the point of getting 100% Mentor on the commander, my other crews have amassed an extra 16,761XP.  Sure it may look impressive (they would be at 34% second skill already) but that is only a few extra battles at that level and the commander catches up fast.  Does that additional crew skill bonus exceed the gains of 2) and 3) above?

If I hang on to mentor for the near completion of the 2nd Skill (lets pick 95% commander), then the other crew are a impressive 1-2% ahead, which does not look so good as above.    

If I hang on to it for the completion of the 2nd Skill, then the other crew are a impressive 44% ahead but that is as good as it gets.  Due to the increased XP requirements for 3+ skill the % gap narrows between the Commander and the other crew (reportedly 3rd skill 91% commander = 93% others.  Does that additional crew skill bonus exceed the gains of 2) and 3) above?

YMMV

NOTE: Accelerated crew training and increasing survivability (-10% crew xp for dying) may have as much or more impact on crew skill XP...(for free).  As penalties are applied first the mentor skill doesn't even offset the crew dying penalty.

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3 hours ago, geek7 said:

I've read very different opinions on  safe stowage

Does IS line get ammo rack so often?  12.5% doesn't seems a lot... worth more than 1/4 repair speed?

I'd hate to replace my binos with Wet Ammo Rack, but it's another 50% hp...

wonder if there statistics on tank/ammo rack %% per btl.

i dont think the ammo rack is too bad on the IS, but safe stowage is abiut the only useful loader skill so theres no reason to not have it.

 

also GET THE HELL RID OF THOSE USELESS BINOCS! You should be running Rammer/Vents/GLD on the IS, unless it can mount a Vstab? which I dont think it can, but then you'd drop the GLD for it. 

at the very least you would run optics over GLD, but seriously, binocs are useless.

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4 hours ago, geek7 said:

I've read very different opinions on  safe stowage

If you have read and understood the article then it is not a "different opinion" the conclusion explains the rationale...

On ‎11‎/‎06‎/‎2015 at 2:03 PM, StranaMechty said:

So, it's not a stellar perk, but I think in light of the dearth of useful loader-specific skills, it's worthwhile considering it. I should mention that I don't know if the regen point is buffed by safe stowage, but Tank Inspector says it is not and I've no reason to disbelieve it. Wouldn't make much sense for it to be anyway (though when has that ever mattered?).

 

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12 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

i dont think the ammo rack is too bad on the IS, but safe stowage is abiut the only useful loader skill so theres no reason to not have it.

 

also GET THE HELL RID OF THOSE USELESS BINOCS! You should be running Rammer/Vents/GLD on the IS, unless it can mount a Vstab? which I dont think it can, but then you'd drop the GLD for it. 

at the very least you would run optics over GLD, but seriously, binocs are useless.

So, safe stowage make sense only after common skills 100% (repair, camo, ff) ?

I'm often have assist dmg. Actually for IS-2 it's not as big share as in others .. still almost 1/3 is assist.

Unfortunately there no way to say %% of it from spot vs track (not to mention spot thanks to binos).. still I think it's not useless.

Unfortunately there  Vstab on IS-2, but I do run Rammer & Vents.

I bit skeptical about optics - 350m VR  means you can out-spot somebody only if you standing (preferably in bushes) .. +10%= 385VR with 4%camo ..I don't know whom I'll outspot with it.. T-150 and KV-2?

+25% =437 with 8%camo.. wouldn't outspot TD (except may be SU-100Y) but will have good chance against HT and most moving targets.

 

AFAIK GLD works only on non-moving targets (e.g. if you trying to shoot while moving gun it wouldn't work )  right?

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5 minutes ago, geek7 said:

So, safe stowage make sense only after common skills 100% (repair, camo, ff) ?

I'm often have assist dmg. Actually for IS-2 it's not as big share as in others .. still almost 1/3 is assist.

Unfortunately there no way to say %% of it from spot vs track (not to mention spot thanks to binos).. still I think it's not useless.

Unfortunately there  Vstab on IS-2, but I do run Rammer & Vents.

I bit skeptical about optics - 350m VR  means you can out-spot somebody only if you standing (preferably in bushes) .. +10%= 385VR with 4%camo ..I don't know whom I'll outspot with it.. T-150 and KV-2?

+25% =437 with 8%camo.. wouldn't outspot TD (except may be SU-100Y) but will have good chance against HT and most moving targets.

 

AFAIK GLD works only on non-moving targets (e.g. if you trying to shoot while moving gun it wouldn't work )  right?

Safe stowage is useful. Firefighting is not useful. You could take repairs or camo first but I wouldnt. (Well, not camo at least)

As for binocs, it doesnt matter. The IS isnt a scout. Its a brawling heavy tank. Binocs are literally a waste of time. Spotting or assisted damage doesnt matter, and binocs require you to be still for 3 seconds. 

 

Binocs are only useful on lower tier TDs (like 6 and below) the highest tier tanks I run binocs on is the Hellcat.

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4 minutes ago, geek7 said:

So, safe stowage make sense only after common skills 100% (repair, camo, ff) ?

I'm often have assist dmg. Actually for IS-2 it's not as big share as in others .. still almost 1/3 is assist.

Unfortunately there no way to say %% of it from spot vs track (not to mention spot thanks to binos).. still I think it's not useless.

Unfortunately there  Vstab on IS-2, but I do run Rammer & Vents.

I bit skeptical about optics - 350m VR  means you can out-spot somebody only if you standing (preferably in bushes) .. +10%= 385VR with 4%camo ..I don't know whom I'll outspot with it.. T-150 and KV-2?

+25% =437 with 8%camo.. wouldn't outspot TD (except may be SU-100Y) but will have good chance against HT and most moving targets.

 

AFAIK GLD works only on non-moving targets (e.g. if you trying to shoot while moving gun it wouldn't work )  right?

You can choose it first or respec the loader when you respec for Sixth on the commander.  FF and the other loader skills not mentioned are highly situational and not as effective even as SS.  YMMV

You understand you can spot your own targets and get assisted damage from being in the front as well?  That's kind of what the IS line heavies are designed to do.  Setting up to position your IS line Heavy tanks in the back with binocs up, scavenging assisted damage is doing it wrong.

No one suggested optics... for the obvious reason you stated, and that translates to you are generally not out spotting lights, meds or td's with your bino'd 437 view range either...

 

The following thread is worth a read (page 2/3)  Re EGLD as well.

 

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Mentor is the "fill tanks with CO2" of crew skills.  

With BIA already set its -> 6th -> then repairs on commander, after that it does not really matter, maybe vision, maybe JOAT, but not mentor.  

There will come a day when its 1 v 1 on the battle field, and on that day you will sell your soul for 6th sense.

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It's by far the best crew skill in the game, that simply can't be argued. It adds to your overall awareness which can make the difference in a game between winning and loosing. 

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Information is power. Deliberately depriving yourself of information by not taking 6th would be foolish. It's the same reason that as someone who plays 99+% solo I run optics on almost every single tank because I want as much info as possible.

Also the logic I hear about 6th and heavies a lot is flawed. The only time you could have an argument for not taking it is if you are out spotting anything that is spotting you anyway and I don't think that any such tank exists that can do that 100% of the time. Either way, 6th is more valuable the less VR and camo you have not the other way around.

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