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active scout in city map

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Playing MT-25, trying to learn scouting. Due to 350m VR and sub-par map knowledge.. mostly active scouting.  on the maps with uneven terrain (e.g. Prokhorovka), forests etc. it's ok.. I can ride popin out a bit on high speed to spot and disappear from direct hit to poput again in 10+ sec   

but on city maps (like Kharkov, Stalingrad) I have no clue   how to contribute..

mot like I can't use good advice how to go about Erlenberg or Karelia or desert maps... but  city maps completely killing me

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On city maps, you basically cannot meaningfully contribute until about half of the enemy team is dead. However, some opportunities can exist early in the game with certain positioning. 

1) Denial by proximity. For example (Not saying its a good example, but one none the less) on Himmelsdorf, you can rush into an early position which will keep enemy tanks lit by getting into the inner court yard and up against the corner where HT/TDs like to poke. By being there, you can constantly keep the enemy tanks lit if they're close enough, which previously (TBD in 9.16 spotting changes) woud give your team a 1 second or so advantage to getting a shot off

2) Denial by frustration: Just track EVERYTHING. Dont bother getting damage. Just shoot the tracks of the enemy team each time they try to move. Be an annoying prick. 

3) Pop their scout boner and make them chase you. Simply the most fun thing a scout tank can do. A scout boner is 2nd ONLY to the arty boner, whereby the enemy will do ANYTHING to kill you. Use that, pull them into friendly guns, which are decidedly unfriendly to those chasing you

Mid game, this is where you can position for damage, which makes #2 much more viable, especially if you can perma-track him out of position. End game is best game for scouts, as your speed allows you to really get around and deal MUCH more damage. Typically, I would probably deal about 50% of my damage in the last 20% of a battle, and spend the first 80% of the battle just trying to stay alive while doing 1-3

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There isn't really enough line of fire for your allies to really take advantage of your scouting on most city maps other than determining initial deployment.  Your job is to stay alive, steal safe damage during the mid game and be alive at the end.  For every minute a LT stays alive in a game its relative power is magnified.  At the end of a game you can start preying on isolated tanks, cripples, and arty (aka mentally crippled).  Relocate often and be where they won't expect you.  But in order to do that FIRST YOU NEED TO LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO MATTER - dying doing an early scouting run is a useless waste of your tank.

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You probably wanted to put this in the core mechanics and skills section rather than the AMA section (I know its sort of confusing but wrong sort of thing here).

Anyway, there unfortunately isn't much scouting opportunities in most city maps. You can get some spotting by doing the darting across a narrow opening things but general ranges are going to be so close that if there is something that could shoot them for you they would already have spotted them and a lot of positions arty may not be able to help you. You will be far more effective in late game when the maps have thinned out a lot so you need to stay alive. For early game stuff to be useful you mostly have to be annoying, take tracks, pop out now and again to distract people and turn their guns, get people to chase you into the loving arms of your allies, you can also deny early positions or put yourself in proxy spot positions the most famous one being on Himmelsderp.

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For most LTs with guns that aren't 100% situational (59-16 and MT-25 are the only ones I can really think of) you can simply play as a paper medium. Real LT play doesn't really happen anymore because games are so fast and firing lines aren't that long. 

 

WG stated that they want to keep tanks doing what they're supposed to in their certain roles meaning the result's exclusively screwing over LTs while making corridor maps that removes the vision element completely. 

 

I don't even think it's worth playing LTs at all at this point. I played them for 400 games straight now to finally close out my missions and I did. I don't see myself ever going back to playing them simply because of screwed over they get in randoms. Only keeper is the T-54 ltw since it can somewhat sub for a medium, and is heavily used in competitive play. All other light tanks are worse than the tank they lead to (which has the same MM, think about it). RU251 is not as good as a PTA, BC AP wipes the floor with the 13 90 etc. Playing light tanks is just a WN8 fap at this point really. 

 

The only really good light tank is the M41 Bulldog. It's better than T8 meds and can solo most T8 light tanks as well with the autoloader. 

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3 hours ago, TheMarine0341 said:

On city maps, you basically cannot meaningfully contribute until about half of the enemy team is dead. However, some opportunities can exist early in the game with certain positioning. 

1) Denial by proximity. For example (Not saying its a good example, but one none the less) on Himmelsdorf, you can rush into an early position which will keep enemy tanks lit by getting into the inner court yard and up against the corner where HT/TDs like to poke. By being there, you can constantly keep the enemy tanks lit if they're close enough, which previously (TBD in 9.16 spotting changes) woud give your team a 1 second or so advantage to getting a shot off

2) Denial by frustration: Just track EVERYTHING. Dont bother getting damage. Just shoot the tracks of the enemy team each time they try to move. Be an annoying prick. 

3) Pop their scout boner and make them chase you. Simply the most fun thing a scout tank can do. A scout boner is 2nd ONLY to the arty boner, whereby the enemy will do ANYTHING to kill you. Use that, pull them into friendly guns, which are decidedly unfriendly to those chasing you

Mid game, this is where you can position for damage, which makes #2 much more viable, especially if you can perma-track him out of position. End game is best game for scouts, as your speed allows you to really get around and deal MUCH more damage. Typically, I would probably deal about 50% of my damage in the last 20% of a battle, and spend the first 80% of the battle just trying to stay alive while doing 1-3

1) like E4-6 starting from K line, and F4-6 from A line? Would work if team had good position and wouldn't allow to push... otherwise it would be very short game :) 4 scout. In general I had good results proxy-spotting in bottom-tier HT (e.g. KV1\T1 in T7 games).. not like you can live long if T7 HT have 10 sec F2F or 2-3 will have 1-3 sec. with you.. but at least not 1-shoot like LT.

2) trying it, also just to attract attention - make him move gun from more dangerous target 2 you. unfortunate quite often I'm not to agile or failing to notice i'm in the line of fire of somebody else..

sound like good tactics might be stay in 3-d+ line till mid-game, check map from safe position until 1/2-1/4  tanks gone or at least most in known positions and I see some path to arty/crippled paper TD/etc.

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1) yolorush 

2) die after spotting some tanks

3) write in chat: I did my spotting

4) wait for the tank to come back to the garage

5) press battle and pray RNGesus to get Prok/Malinovka

6) repeat because you got Karelia

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3 hours ago, Inciatus said:

you can also deny early positions or put yourself in proxy spot positions the most famous one being on Himmelsderp.

Ok, lets take a look at this map

 

624px-Himmelsdorf.jpg

I can see hot I can provide early deployment info. on corners of 3 or 2 lines to see who is taking position or going to line 1. Like on J 2 or 3; B3,C3.

Also heard recommendation for roam on line 5...

where you'd recommend take  proxy spot positions?

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E1 is another common spot people run to though you will likely just get killed there and there isn't really any good exit. G3 inside the courtyard can also be done but it is more exposed to the hill.

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20 hours ago, Kolni said:

WG stated that they want to keep tanks doing what they're supposed to in their certain roles meaning the result's exclusively screwing over LTs while making corridor maps that removes the vision element completely. 

[...]

The only really good light tank is the M41 Bulldog. It's better than T8 meds and can solo most T8 light tanks as well with the autoloader. 

Agree with almost everything Kolni wrote. Some additions:

  1. Get rid of the misconception that light tanks need to scout at all costs. The primary role of a light tank very much depends on the map. On the few open vision maps left in the game, you should indeed think about providing vision for your team first and foremost. On the contrary, providing vision is irrelevant on a map like Ensk. Even a half-blind heavy can light his targets for himself on such a map. In consequence, it is not worth risking hitpoints to scout. Instead you need to figure out how you can deal damage and - even more important - how to create overmatches for your team by using your mobility.
  2. The sweetspot for lights are the mid-tiers. High tier scouts are indeed garbage compared to the mediums with equivalent MM. But the very best scouts for their tier are tier V and VI and some tier VII lights. ELC and T37 are the two scouts that for their tier and MM are currently the most powerful light tanks in the game (at least in my opinion). MT-25 is ok, Type 64 is decent, I am a fan of autoloading 59-16 but the pen does indeed suck. Chaffee and M41 are very good vehicles.
  3. Yes, scouts got f***ed by the map department. But that doesn't mean that they aren't fun to play. They are however more challenging than any other class and require better situational awareness and map knowledge. Most importantly, every mistake you make will be punished mercilessly since you lack armor and hp. I would therefore strongly advice you to stay away from them until you have become considerably better at this game.
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Tier 7 and tier 8 light tanks are pretty useless, I agree.

But tier 6 light tanks are awesome, and you can actully win games with them and not just pad WN8.

Even T21 is a very good tank, even though shadowed by T37.

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Only scout that performs well for me on city maps is t49. It has speed to start anywhere or relocate, and can damage every hull down monster for 200-350 damage every shot. 

Example, himmelsdorf, straight to the hill before anything else gets there, can get first shot on enemy lights or meds or heavies before they even have the depression to fire back.

All other LTS on city maps is ghey

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On 10/15/2016 at 9:59 PM, Copeyhagen said:

Only scout that performs well for me on city maps is t49. It has speed to start anywhere or relocate, and can damage every hull down monster for 200-350 damage every shot. 

Example, himmelsdorf, straight to the hill before anything else gets there, can get first shot on enemy lights or meds or heavies before they even have the depression to fire back.

All other LTS on city maps is ghey

bulldog is fun on city maps.

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