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Acumen

9.17 overmatch mechanic changes

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So what does everyone think of the new overmatch mechanic that is coming? I think the WN8/WN9 values for a few tanks might need changing!

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Balance? Don't ask for capitalist stupidity comarade!

@GehakteMolen was right they're introducing the horrible SandBox into the live game, this overmatch stupidity, plus the broken as fuck swedish tanks + the let's make the tier VIII prems like the old type-59 used to be. They shouldn't even bother with WN8/9 anymore WG is actively trying to erease any semblance of skill the game might still requiere. /rant

 

Yeah, they should increase the 140/IS-3/IS-4 values, at least.

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The 140 and 430 got a massive buff, and so did papery but sloped meds like the Leo, STB-1, AMX-30 and Mutz.

Yes, the IS-3 did get a significant buff, but heavies as a class don't actually benefit from the changes that much: stuff like the IS-4's roof, the M103 and Tiger II will be stronger, but for the most part these are weakspot changes. On top of that, heavy tanks have higher calibres and benefitted from overmatching thin patches of armour in the past - they will no longer be able do do that.

It's the thin-skinned meds that benefit the most. Tanks that had no armour to speak of before the patch. Tanks that had overmatchable sides. At the low tiers you will be sure to start seeing PZ III/IVs racking up steel walls. Things like the Panther at the mid tiers will be able to sidecrape consistently against the ubiquitous 122 mils. Most of these tanks had high penetration to begin with and did not need overmatch to penetrate their targets. To those tanks there is virtually no downside to 9.17. Their firepower stayed effective and their armour will scale better with skill, since you can expose yourself without getting autopenned.

I have to admit that on the whole the overmatch changes are implemented in a pretty retarded way - i.e. WG's style. They are rolling in these changes to protect a particular branch: the Swedes specifically, without regard to the havoc it wracks on the existing vehicle balance, e,g, 140 and 430 will outclass the 62A; Mutz will outtank the Pershings; AMX-30s will tank Jg E-100s. I do think that removing the current arbitrary system of overmatch is a good idea. But they had better do it on sandbox where they can tweak all tanks globally. As regards the Swedish tonks, they might as well give them unhistorical armour buffs by 10-15mms across the board to prevent them from being overmatched except by outsize TD shells.

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51 minutes ago, lavawing said:

The 140 and 430 got a massive buff, and so did papery but sloped meds like the Leo, STB-1, AMX-30 and Mutz.

Ib4 the leo steel walls, lol.

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Its one of the worst changes they could possibly make to the game. Its like "Oh... you say you dont like nonsense bounces off of tanks with no armor? WORRY NOT COMRADE, WE FIX! NOW IT HAPPEN TENFOLD!"

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Forget rng, forget the meta, forget map balance and how the games play out, now, we fuck with the game in a more direct manner.

Enjoy.

-devshits

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Buddy of mine have Steel Wall in Chaffee, but it's been impossible to get since it went from potential damage received to damage blocked by armor.

Now maybe I too can get Steel Wall in a light tank.

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4 hours ago, CandyVanMan said:

Buddy of mine have Steel Wall in Chaffee, but it's been impossible to get since it went from potential damage received to damage blocked by armor.

Now maybe I too can get Steel Wall in a light tank.

Fuck you. No, you do not deserve steel wall in the chaffe, i might be the only one with a steel wall in a chaffe too. git good instead!

 

how will these changes affect the 215b?

Edited by THE_RETARDED_ONE
Spelling error

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Like zap said, these changes terrible, wont make the game anyhow better and has almost only negative effects on the game. Only good thing about it is that it will buff  stuff like Tiger II, Tiger P and IS-4, which i am definely not against (especially on Tiger P's case, the roof was fucking annoying on it). 

This wont increase the role of armor, it just makes RNG even worse. Now you see fucking Jagdpanzer E100s bouncing of from RU-251, losing 1050 potential damage done and now might die becuase of that because RU 251 might be able to flank you. This buffs paper tanks, while not benefitting actual armor based heavies at all. I ricochet from fucking Borsig with Kranvagn on testserver. NO, it was not hit in track or gun, it was clear ricochet.

Back to heavies, this is actually nerf to some of them; biggest one on the true armor heavies with high/highish caliber guns, like Type 5 Heavy. One of advantages Type 5 has is ability to pen some sidescraping tanks and ability to hit and pen most roofs in the game thanks to its height, but will be all gone now. Who cares though, in 9.18 it will most likely get derp gun which already seemed like superior gun choice because how shitty the gold of 14cm gun is. Still, GG WG

I think that only purpose of these changes is because of Swedish, or lets be more specific, tier 8-10 Swedish TDs. But why? Like, Strv 103s has front that already autobounces 120mm+ guns with current overmatch mechanics. If overmatching would be problem, just buff the god damn armor by 10mm. Seriously almost no one gives a single fuck about historical accuracy anymore, especially when War Blunder exists for history whores. Balance >>>> historical accuracy, not to mention they already screwed up Swedish tier 8-10 HTs armor due to balance. And if having 40mm armor is that important just buff the tank in other areas. Yea, there is UDES 03 with 20mm of armor, but does that thing actually need to bounce stuff? Sure, it has siege mechanics, and no armor would make it even more akward. Just reduce to siege time into like 1 second on it, and it would be fine.

These changes are fucking stupid and no one asked for them. Increasing RNG is last thing this game needs (probably even worse than buffing arty, because atleast there is cases where you can avoid skycancer, you are never completely safe from RNG on other hand).

TL;DR: Completely scrap these mechanics and just slightly adjust tier 8-10 Swe TDs to make up for that change. The fact alone it will buff IS-3 (also nerf, because 122mm overmatching, BUT OVERALL A BUFF) is exactly good reason to scrap it completely.

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I think they should have also revert accuracy nerf with this armor change, so while good angles can pull off miraculous bounces you could at least be allowed to aim true as a skill-based counter.

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Exactly. If they really wanted to improve armor this way than why not adjust the armor of said tanks accordingly so certain guns don't overmatch. This game has been balanced around overmatching and even WG advertised tall tanks hitting roofs. Changing an entire mechanic just for a couple of new tanks is beyond silly. 

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Because watching two shitters in hull down IS-6s wasn't already bad enough huh?  Now they wont even get the occasional accidental turret roof pen.

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At first I was thinking this would be good for heavies, after reading and absorbing more, now I am aggravated and perplexed. I am just getting to the point I can deal with bads getting lucky, but if conventional over-match is gone, and I am have to work harder to deal with the red/orange hoard (on both sides), this just sounds like a monumental buzz kill, or a meta change that I may have a hard time adapting to.

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4 hours ago, THE_RETARDED_ONE said:

how will these changes affect the 215b?

Most tanks will be harder to sidescrape against as they will now require sligthly sharper angles (the diagram WG posted states that a 122mm gun will ricoochet at ~74 degrees against 50mm of armour).

~150mm guns will, however, penetrate only up to ~76 degrees instead of 89.99999999 degrees.

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15 minutes ago, Platypusbill said:

Most tanks will be harder to sidescrape against as they will now require sligthly sharper angles (the diagram WG posted states that a 122mm gun will ricoochet at ~74 degrees against 50mm of armour).

~150mm guns will, however, penetrate only up to ~76 degrees instead of 89.99999999 degrees.

So my 215b will be slightly more fun :D

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36 minutes ago, Gr1nch_1 said:

Maybe im dumb but what does that mean for 140 or 62a upper plate?

Godmode for 140 cause it can just auto bounce everything now on roof and upper plate :l
Byebye T-62A for being useless compared to 140 if this change goes live.

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11 hours ago, CandyVanMan said:

Buddy of mine have Steel Wall in Chaffee, but it's been impossible to get since it went from potential damage received to damage blocked by armor.

Now maybe I too can get Steel Wall in a light tank.

noob!!

I got a steel wall in VK28, aswell as stronk armur tanks like Conway and 50B (and a bunch of others, but copy pasting this crap is too much work :P )

Steel_wallll.png

 

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I read on Reddit a "theory" but I am starting to think it might be correct.

WG couldn't get away with their penetration nerf so they got it in a another way. This all just a part of an overall armor buff to most if not all tanks. Look at some of the buffs lately  e5, wz112 , kv5 just to name a few, there are more. Armor buffs that are coming Lowe, wz111 are 2 that I can think off the top of my head. Now all the paper tanks get effectively an armor. Look at the new Swedish Heavy FFS!

They introduce this in patch when they introduce a lot of paper tds and people get put off the scent. They think the buff is for those tds, when really it is an overall penetration nerf.

Anyway it is just a "theory" but if more tanks get armor buffs in future patches, the theory looks pretty good.

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Ok,

I thought this was the metagame forum where we discuss actual effects and not explosively whine. (not limited to wot labs but I'm a bit surprised to see it here) 

The Corollary to "Now some thin armor that was unrealistically penetrable will now not be" is "There are now previously unpenetrable plates that CAN be penetrated". Yes, fine the spots you've carefully learned and exploited for easy damage are going away. What are the new opportunities?  Which Tanks had 51 MM armor at 70 degrees that would auto-bounce your shots before but now you'll pen with ease?  There are a plethora of tanks where  currently a 90mm gun won't penetrate at 70 degrees but will now be vulnerable at up to 76 degrees.  We just need to find them.  Note a 50mm plate is more vulnerable to a 90 mm gun with the new rules (pen checks up to 72 degrees instead of 70) than it is currently.

 I see a lot of people complain about unintended consequences but if the issues are this blatantly obvious I fail to see how they can be unintended.  They mentioned in the update that it's based on an algorithm, not a fixed set of steps so, a 50mm plate is penetrable by a 150mm gun at 76 deg,  What is the effect of a 150 mm gun on a 30 MM plate?  maybe it's closer to 80 degrees?

It's entirely possible that this is a wash, or actually a direct nerf to a pile of vehicles armor.  I don't know, it doesn't seem like anybody else does either, 

There are more than negative effects to this change lets find them.

26 minutes ago, Acumen said:

I read on Reddit a "theory" but I am starting to think it might be correct.

WG couldn't get away with their penetration nerf so they got it in a another way. This all just a part of an overall armor buff to most if not all tanks. Look at some of the buffs lately  e5, wz112 , kv5 just to name a few, there are more. Armor buffs that are coming Lowe, wz111 are 2 that I can think off the top of my head. Now all the paper tanks get effectively an armor. Look at the new Swedish Heavy FFS!

They introduce this in patch when they introduce a lot of paper tds and people get put off the scent. They think the buff is for those tds, when really it is an overall penetration nerf.

Anyway it is just a "theory" but if more tanks get armor buffs in future patches, the theory looks pretty good.

People are always asking for games to "Buff not Nerf" Sounds like a very interesting idea

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