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Super_Rybak

Today's ban wave

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Hmm this is not fair..... friend of a friend of a friend made a test using every single mod you can think of for a month 10-20 battles everyday and didn't get banned so l am wondering what's going on here :tanfiesta:

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1 hour ago, HELIONIST said:

Hmm this is not fair..... friend of a friend of a friend made a test using every single mod you can think of for a month 10-20 battles everyday and didn't get banned so l am wondering what's going on here :tanfiesta:

Are you talking NA? assuming so. The Chieftain (I think going from memory) mentioned that they ran it very "tight" initially to avoid a lot of false positives. I am inferring from that, that each cluster EU, RU, NA have some leeway on how implement they cheat detection. I would think over time, as they open up the net, more will get scooped up.

Maybe your "friend of a friend" was caught and glossed over, maybe they are testing their filters on someone who does run all mods, or maybe he blew the system up, and they saved him for later.

Or it is all bullcrap, and detection will never reach the level that it should.

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4 hours ago, Orrie said:

Well, you could say they basically work as crutches for physical incapable people.
Without it, they can't walk, but even with them, they'll move at a snails pace.

But it just removes the "natural development" of getting gud.

On the other hand you could compare them to training wheels on a kids bike.
Without them, they can't ride, with them they still have to go slow and careful, but they help them to ride a normal bike one day.

I think aimbots and hit skins can be a good way for beginners to learn how and where to aim.

Obviously training wheels are hindering for a professional rider though and so are crutches for a healthy person.

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2 minutes ago, Super_Rybak said:

On the other hand you could compare them to training wheels on a kids bike.
Without them, they can't ride, with them they still have to go slow and careful, but they help them to ride a normal bike one day.

I think aimbots and hit skins can be a good way for beginners to learn how and where to aim.

Obviously training wheels are hindering for a professional rider though and so are crutches for a healthy person.

I agree with you completely. Thats why pubbies whine about aimbots and unicums dont. To go further with your analogy professional cyclist wouldnt be worried at all about some noob (or pro biker for that matter) for using training wheels. If good player gets shot it was either mistake for exposing or trade that he was going to take anyways. Same thing with hitskins.

 

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1 hour ago, SmirkingGerbil said:

Are you talking NA? assuming so. The Chieftain (I think going from memory) mentioned that they ran it very "tight" initially to avoid a lot of false positives. I am inferring from that, that each cluster EU, RU, NA have some leeway on how implement they cheat detection. I would think over time, as they open up the net, more will get scooped up.

Maybe your "friend of a friend" was caught and glossed over, maybe they are testing their filters on someone who does run all mods, or maybe he blew the system up, and they saved him for later.

Or it is all bullcrap, and detection will never reach the level that it should.

Yes NA. l don't understand how they first say their anti cheat will detect all those mods they posted on forums and now say well they doing a tight ran . 

From what l see most of the people that gun banned on RU was cuz of a guy that makes mods gave WG their info but nothing is confirmed yet. If you can't catch people using like reload mod, tree down and some of the biggest mods used then how can you say you fighting cheats . 

Also those players banned on NA now WG is asking for help from this people to reach them and double check since even they aren't sure if they banned them for cheats or not. 

I just can't trust WG and their bs anti cheat joke.

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2 hours ago, HELIONIST said:

Yes NA. l don't understand how they first say their anti cheat will detect all those mods they posted on forums and now say well they doing a tight ran . 

From what l see most of the people that gun banned on RU was cuz of a guy that makes mods gave WG their info but nothing is confirmed yet. If you can't catch people using like reload mod, tree down and some of the biggest mods used then how can you say you fighting cheats . 

Also those players banned on NA now WG is asking for help from this people to reach them and double check since even they aren't sure if they banned them for cheats or not. 

I just can't trust WG and their bs anti cheat joke.

Yeah, I understand your concerns.

I am a firewall guy, and security person, and I can say I will find suspicious devices and will let them run for awhile, watching them and gathering data, while I clamp down on others.

Just giving you some perspective from the security world, as we do allow some "vectors" to run amok so we can profile them better, it is common practice.

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11 minutes ago, SmirkingGerbil said:

Yeah, I understand your concerns.

I am a firewall guy, and security person, and I can say I will find suspicious devices and will let them run for awhile, watching them and gathering data, while I clamp down on others.

Just giving you some perspective from the security world, as we do allow some "vectors" to run amok so we can profile them better, it is common practice.

Yup, it's just given WG's rather copious history of fuck-ups and headless-chicken-driven-development, there's a fair dose of skepticism in people.

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i still think they just added some small file reader thing with a patch some times ago, the game does check your current version afterall (no recent version = no log in) so your game send stuff to the server anyway, how much effort to also send some other info?

Same when you load the game, it loads your profile from the server (if you remove your profile folder, (the thing in DATA) nothing happens either, its just a local copy from the server)

Wot as a game is nothing but the client side half of the game, EVERYTHING is server side, reload hack and suchs are thus 100% impossible, since the server decides when you are reloaded NOT the client

The ``problem`` for WG is, that the server sends all minimap data to all the players (in one team), and your client filters what you should on for example the minimap (which tanks are spotted) same for reload and suchs, all the mods do is show data the server send anyway, thats it

Its not ``magic`` of ``cheating``, its just displaying data the server sends, and i bet the server send everything to everyone, because its cheaper to send 1 package to 30 people as make 30 packages and make them unique...

For all we know, WG might be busy on fixing this server side issue, and al those turd mods stop working right away (like how reload and accuracy are done server side, and for each player unique, the server sends me my own signal when i can shoot again, others can read this (hence those reload mods work) but its not possible to fiddle with this data)

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17 hours ago, Sangvinikis said:

Is there somewhere a list of these 3k banned players on EU?

WG EU has a very strict no-naming policy so I doubt it

16 hours ago, Orrie said:

Could ask anyone with a statsite to check the active players for it, since it's visible in the API.

It's in my userscript, but then you'd have to check every clan manually.

This would work great but it can't tell you the reason why they were banned would it? People would be labelled a cheater simply because of coincidence if they were banned at the same time cheaters were...

Account status is visible but I didn't think the reasoning/code was

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2 hours ago, It's_Matra said:

This would work great but it can't tell you the reason why they were banned would it? People would be labelled a cheater simply because of coincidence if they were banned at the same time cheaters were...

Account status is visible but I didn't think the reasoning/code was

Someone was accused from a top clan at the beginning of the ban wave, but his ban was only 1 hour long due to TKs. I don't remember exactly who was it, but doesn't really matter. The point is I agree with you, it is a really bad idea to create a list like that.

PS: I strongly advise everyone - who is in a "competitve" clan - to take a screenshoot in case he/she gets banned for any reason. It can prevent a lot of drama, and false accusation.

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4 minutes ago, TAdoo87 said:

Someone was accused from a top clan at the beginning of the ban wave, but his ban was only 1 hour long due to TKs. I don't remember exactly who was it, but doesn't really matter. The point is I agree with you, it is a really bad idea to create a list like that.

PS: I strongly advise everyone - who is in a "competitve" clan - to take a screenshoot in case he/she gets banned for any reason. It can prevent a lot of drama, and false accusation.

I think WG didn't do themselves any favours by mass banning at a particular time... yes it says 'look we care about cheats' but at the same time it causes more issues/friction.

A better way to do it is ban offenders as applicable then produce a monthly statement - e.g.

During the Month of December:

  • x number of people were banned for 7 days
  • x number of people were banned permanently

for using illegal modifications.

That way players can see that the cheating situation is becoming better/worse, there is transparency of WG's efforts to stamp out cheaters etc. 

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18 hours ago, It's_Matra said:

WG EU has a very strict no-naming policy so I doubt it

This would work great but it can't tell you the reason why they were banned would it? People would be labelled a cheater simply because of coincidence if they were banned at the same time cheaters were...

Account status is visible but I didn't think the reasoning/code was

Well, the reason isn't stated, but since the length of ban is there, you can just compare the times.
If there's just 1 instance of a certain timestamp, assume it's a normal TK ban or anything of that sort, but when you have like now, over 2000 with the same timestamp, you'll know it's a banwave.

Of course it can't be completely automated, and only guessed, but it is still possible to make a dynamic database.
But that would require someone to do some work, and I know Never is too busy for such a small thing.

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5 hours ago, Orrie said:

Well, the reason isn't stated, but since the length of ban is there, you can just compare the times.
If there's just 1 instance of a certain timestamp, assume it's a normal TK ban or anything of that sort, but when you have like now, over 2000 with the same timestamp, you'll know it's a banwave.

Of course it can't be completely automated, and only guessed, but it is still possible to make a dynamic database.
But that would require someone to do some work, and I know Never is too busy for such a small thing.

You still run the risk of someone getting a 7 day ban at the same time as the 'mass ban' unless WG turns off automatic banning for a short period. Otherwise that person would end up with that person being labelled a cheater for the rest of their playing 'career'.

You could use it to find out who got 'perma-banned' for cheating - but that's not the end of the world as the player can no longer play the game anyway - it then becomes a 'clan witch hunt' on those who actually play fair within clans affected.

If there is a chance that a single innocent person could be affected, then it's not worth it

 

EDIT: Also nice to see the RU server cracking down hard on unsportsmanlike conduct and bots too!

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The numbers in the pictures are the bans for rigging/account sharing I think.

EU:

banned_tankers_en_eu.png

2,869 accounts caught using prohibited third-party modifications (Fair Play Policy: First Actions Taken) were issued seven-day in-game bans

1,819 more people were disqualified for intentionally fixing matches (Game Rules, paragraph 4.08) and account sharing (Game Rules, paragraph 1.05)

RU:

banned_tankers_ru_t1bk6lk.png

15 937 accounts caught using prohibited third-party modifications 

4556 more people were disqualified for intentionally fixing matches and account sharing

SEA:

banned_tankers_en_asia.png

115 accounts caught using prohibited third-party modifications (Fair Play Policy: First Actions Taken) were issued seven-day in-game bans

3651 more people were disqualified for intentionally fixing matches (Game Rules, paragraph 2.17) and account sharing (Game Rules, paragraph 1.05)

 

NA: not yet...

 

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6 hours ago, It's_Matra said:

You still run the risk of someone getting a 7 day ban at the same time as the 'mass ban' unless WG turns off automatic banning for a short period. Otherwise that person would end up with that person being labelled a cheater for the rest of their playing 'career'.

You could use it to find out who got 'perma-banned' for cheating - but that's not the end of the world as the player can no longer play the game anyway - it then becomes a 'clan witch hunt' on those who actually play fair within clans affected.

If there is a chance that a single innocent person could be affected, then it's not worth it

 

EDIT: Also nice to see the RU server cracking down hard on unsportsmanlike conduct and bots too!

You get the timestamp to the millisecond, so if you're banned at the exact same time as a banwave, you're really really unlucky.
Though, why does it matter? People who get banned for long periods are beyond retarded and should be shamed.

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252 player is a very low number. If they decide to ban BOTS, we would see several thousands....but hey, bots spends $$$ why would they right??

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On 11/30/2016 at 3:24 AM, It's_Matra said:

I'm happy that WG are at least tackling the main problem of available 'cheats'. It may not be a lot at the moment but it's a start and I for one will be interested to see what the knock on effect will be to illegal mod developers... hoping it dissuades them from making these mods.  

From what I understand of human nature, adding bans into the mix just makes these mods more fun and challenging to develop. I've seen some clever stuff in my day, and I highly doubt people will stop cheating anytime soon.

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1 hour ago, zyl said:

From what I understand of human nature, adding bans into the mix just makes these mods more fun and challenging to develop. I've seen some clever stuff in my day, and I highly doubt people will stop cheating anytime soon.

It depends on how much the cheat helps, how easy it is to get/use/update, and how much risk/impact from being caught.

 

adding any level of checking will reduce the number of users, and the benefit isn't THAT huge compared to things like wall hacks.  It certainly won't get rid of cheat mods but will reduce usage.

 

overall effect on the game is less clear; it's hard to say how much impact some of the cheat-ier mods have on in-game performance.

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I'm not happy that this kind of page exists (after all WG has said that some [a very, very small amount of] players have been unfairly banned and are being compensated for it), but it also shows that it's going to be easy for racial profiling and accusations.

http://wot-cheaters.tk/?p=stat

It has a list of cheaters banned (EU I believe) and statistics of average winrate but most interestingly; language.

So if you were to analyse the face value of the statistics - then a British, German and French player are equally likely to cheat but a Polish player is more than 3 times likely to cheat (compared to British, French and German players).

THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE as it does not take in to account percentage of players on servers, if you looked at percentage of players you would get a different story and so on - this is why statistical correlation is a very bad thing especially when people are on a witch hunt

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1 hour ago, It's_Matra said:

So if you were to analyse the face value of the statistics - then a British, German and French player are equally likely to cheat but a Polish player is more than 3 times likely to cheat (compared to British, French and German players).

THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE as it does not take in to account percentage of players on servers, if you looked at percentage of players you would get a different story and so on - this is why statistical correlation is a very bad thing especially when people are on a witch hunt

They did mention that 0.04% of polish players were banned, which is very little. Only the absolute number is high.

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1 hour ago, Super_Rybak said:

They did mention that 0.04% of polish players were banned, which is very little. Only the absolute number is high.

Exactly, but which number would you look at for 'sensationalism' - also 0.21% for 'active' players.

When people look at '2.9k users banned, nearly 700 of which were Polish' it damages the [already damaged] Polish community more than memes possibly could

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On 11/29/2016 at 10:16 PM, Assassin7 said:

We've gone beyond tinfoil hat here, we're in full tinfoil body suits now. And they're handing them out for free to anyone who will listen.

They are called faraday suits.

Image result for faraday suit

In fairness although I'm sure this guy isn't a pubby this would probably be a fairly accurate representation of one.

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