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BIA & Improved ventilation

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Hi tankers,

I am grinding the t-54 ATM, I already have a crew with BIA, as equipment I am mounting coated optics. As I've read in other topics BIA should be paired with improved ventilation most of the time. 

Is it worthed to drop the optics for improved ventilation in this case? (other 2 equip are rammer and V-stab)

Cheers

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27 minutes ago, monty50k said:

Add SA Recon and food to drop optics for vents.

I don't have enough credits ATM to run food unfortunately..

1 hour ago, Jug0sLovEn said:

If you want to 3mark it, go with optics. If you dont give a fuck about marks then put vents cause vision is for pussies who cant brawl.

I wish I could 3mark this tank, but realistically I do not have enough skills, it would be already a plus to 2mark it (although don't give too much credit 'bout it, I just wanna have fun the best possible way). Brawling is nice but I like medium because they can do everything as well as brawling (specifically t-54 apart from poke and shoot).

 

5 hours ago, nemlengyel said:

I'd say try both and pick whichever synergizes better with your playstyle

Saving some credit ATM so I will try it in the future for sure.

Thanks everybody for your tips/suggestions :)

 

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It's interesting - I think this discussion has been coming up since 2012 or earlier.  Still as many different answers ( most very reasonable ) today as there were back them.  That was before the multiple reworks of vision ranges and camo an d map redesigns that eliminated most of the vision abuse spots.

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It really depends. Pretty much every tier 10 medium you want to run vents over optics. Purely because with vents you'll more than likely be hitting the 445 cap already, so there isn't any point in getting optics. Vents improves every part of your tank, so if you ever hit 445 without the optics, always go vents. Best setup for mediums is usually vents/rammer/vert stab, if it's an autloader usually gld instead of rammer. Also running food makes sure you hit 445 w/o optics :) Then you get a 20% crew bonus with food/vents/bia which means you reload faster than everything =D

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1 hour ago, BiggieD61 said:

It's interesting - I think this discussion has been coming up since 2012 or earlier.  Still as many different answers ( most very reasonable ) today as there were back them.  That was before the multiple reworks of vision ranges and camo an d map redesigns that eliminated most of the vision abuse spots.

That's what I was thinking as well, because there are very few maps where vision control is possible with the map meta favoring brawling 80%+ of the time.  Camo Recon and Situational Awareness are a must with Vents however. Never give up Vstabs or Gun Rammer.  I think with Optics and BIA my VR on the T54 is @445 m.

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56 minutes ago, TheLoveHitman said:

It really depends. Pretty much every tier 10 medium you want to run vents over optics. Purely because with vents you'll more than likely be hitting the 445 cap already, so there isn't any point in getting optics. Vents improves every part of your tank, so if you ever hit 445 without the optics, always go vents. Best setup for mediums is usually vents/rammer/vert stab, if it's an autloader usually gld instead of rammer. Also running food makes sure you hit 445 w/o optics :) Then you get a 20% crew bonus with food/vents/bia which means you reload faster than everything =D

If your VR is above 445 m, isn't it still worth it to exceed the 445 m cap on a maps where vision control is still possible?

From my understanding of vision, the camo % of your opponent is subtracted from the gross VR of the vehicles.

For instance on my M46 Patton with optics my gross VR is 485 m will spot an non-firing motionless E25 at @ 385 m [ 485 - 100  ... (485-50)x 0.23)  ] 

The same non-firing motionless  E25 will be spotted at @ 355 m by my T54 with optics has a VR of 455 m  [ 445 - 90 ...  (445-50) x 0.23) ]

That's roughly a 30 m difference.  Take away optics and you need to be very close

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T-54 is one of the russian tanks where you get vision skills one skill faster, since loader is a radio operator...but it is balanced by having only 390 m base, in a tier where even heavies got 400 base. 

So, on a 5 skill crew you will have BIA, full repairs and camo, recon and SIA. I would mount vents only if I ran food on top of it, and finish at 450 m view range. Without food it is a paltry 430, and that is ghetto, even with full camo...simply because some spots become not viable, like Lakeville mid, Mountain pass spots, etc...

450 m view range is not really enough if you wanna go camo wars vs your fellow hovercrafts, you need even more.

Maybe I simply suck at brawling, but T-54 is a sneaky bastard...and since the turret HD nerf, you need to thread carefully. 

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10 minutes ago, xWulffx said:

If your VR is above 445 m, isn't it still worth it to exceed the 445 m cap on a maps where vision control is still possible?

From my understanding of vision, the camo % of your opponent is subtracted from the gross VR of the vehicles.

For instance on my M46 Patton with optics my gross VR is 485 m will spot an non-firing motionless E25 at @ 375 m [ 485 - 110  ... (485 x 0.23)  ] 

The same non-firing motionless  E25 will be spotted at @ 345 m by my T54 with optics has a VR of 445 m  [ 445 - 100 (445 x 0.23) ]

That's roughly a 30 m difference.  Take away optics and you need to be very close

 

Yes, anything above 445 penetrates more camo, but it still really isn't worth it. Most tanks you can't see at 445 you won't be able to see at 470 or 480. You'll need to be 50m away from most any light tank as long as they aren't shooting no matter your camo penetration. It's so much better to have a better reload, smaller aiming reticle, less resistance while driving, etc, just by having the vents. You'll be able to use all of those bonuses far more than the off chance that you spot something extra you wouldn't have without the bonus camo penetration.

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445m view range is not enough, having like 480m+ is pretty magical and makes a world of difference. I especially like my TVP at 505m atm.

Extra 10% View range will make a difference way more often than few percentage faster reload will.

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12 hours ago, monty50k said:

Add SA Recon and food to drop optics for vents.

and of course to do this your want JOAT on the commander.......skills skills skills.

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On 12/12/2016 at 10:49 AM, Jug0sLovEn said:

If you want to 3mark it, go with optics. If you dont give a fuck about marks then put vents cause vision is for pussies who cant brawl.

for pussies who cant brawl like me... would it make sense to get binos?

BTW I like you Obj416 man signature :) 

Quote

 You'll need to be 50m away from most any light tank as long as they aren't shooting no matter your camo penetration. 

I don't think it's true. As BlackAdder said

On 12/12/2016 at 3:33 PM, BlackAdder said:

Yep, maximizing VR to break camo of enemy. 

Equation_spottingRange.png

lets say I'm in my T-54 ltwt. in a map where I can't hide in the bushes.. per http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camo-calculator with net and binos i'll be at 487.50VR and 41.9 camo, if I move 31.9, fire 9.22. so VR of 450 will get me at 450 - 400*41.9 =282m; 322;412

hence I can't drive around 450VR tank closer than 322m and even stand in plain sight in 280.. can't shoot from 410m

vents and BIA get me to 508.39 43.20 33.20 9.5

so, you'll notice me standing @ 277m, driving @ 317 with my max camo possible

without optics you'll see me @ 252 and 288.. and I can shoot you not detected from 373m

put binos and it changes to 310 and 356

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On 12/12/2016 at 5:02 PM, Stige said:

445m view range is not enough, having like 480m+ is pretty magical and makes a world of difference. I especially like my TVP at 505m atm.

Extra 10% View range will make a difference way more often than few percentage faster reload will.

I believe point of opposing folks was - in most maps now you can't shoot or even spot  from 300 -400m with your superior camo\VR cause enemy would be in 10-150m or behind building\mountain\etc anyway.

how true it and %% of such maps i'm not sure

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2 hours ago, geek7 said:

I believe point of opposing folks was - in most maps now you can't shoot or even spot  from 300 -400m with your superior camo\VR cause enemy would be in 10-150m or behind building\mountain\etc anyway.

how true it and %% of such maps i'm not sure

Yeah that might be more true today than it was a year ago but I don't wanna find myself in that situation on Malinovka or Prokhorovka where I'm blind because I only have 440m view range or something, it just doesn't cut it against campers and scouts.

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~480m view range is magical because you'll spot most heavies at 455m, as well as spot most TDs who fire. At 455m away, you will get away with shooting them if they are running just running 460 vr in return.

While this vr doesn't really matter much for platoon play or one sided lolstomps; it does make a pretty significant difference when solopubbing a close match. If you are always finding yourself that close to the enemy with a non front line heavy (like E5/E100), you should probably consider better positioning based on map and lineups.

Personally, I'm actually dropping rammer on tanks with reloads between 9 and 11s, and finding a significant improvement in performance....

 

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On 16.12.2016 at 11:05 PM, Hally said:

~480m view range is magical because you'll spot most heavies at 455m, as well as spot most TDs who fire. At 455m away, you will get away with shooting them if they are running just running 460 vr in return.

While this vr doesn't really matter much for platoon play or one sided lolstomps; it does make a pretty significant difference when solopubbing a close match. If you are always finding yourself that close to the enemy with a non front line heavy (like E5/E100), you should probably consider better positioning based on map and lineups.

Personally, I'm actually dropping rammer on tanks with reloads between 9 and 11s, and finding a significant improvement in performance....

That's just wrong. I dont even talk about the factual error on the maximum spotting range, which is 445m, but you'll need VR regardless you're platooning or not. And dropping rammer since "the dpm is shit anyways" is just plain stupid.

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