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Flametz

HEAP testing with 152mm in PT 0.6.0 #2

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Right, so I just did some testing on the "new and improved" HEAP which now bumps 150mm and 152mm up beyond the 32mm threshold point to penetrate tier 8+ BB bow and tier 8-9 BB deck (Iowa is 38mm however)

This was tested at approximately 13.6km on a bow-forward Izumo using a fully upgraded Cleveland. Important thing to note here is that the shell caliber, and therefore the HE penetration* is shared with the Belfast and Kutuzov, two very special CLs with smoke and 6" guns that will see tier 8-9 BBs.

*HE penetration is caliber/6-1 (so 150mm is (150/25-1)=24mm HE pen), the exception being German BBs rocking the caliber/4 rule (which curiously applies to their 128mm and 150mm HE on their secondary guns for both cruisers and BBs). And yes, I tested a Nurnberg 150mm HE vs Colorado 25mm bow. It shattered for 0 dmg without HEAP.

Control test without HEAP captain skill:

Test using HEAP captain skill:

 

Yeah, pretty devastating isn't it? Shaves a full minute off time to kill, and on cruisers sporting an even faster shell output on their 6" guns (Basically every tier 7-8 light cruiser and Mogami 155), the difference becomes even larger as it gives fire damage less time to catch up between reloads.

Bonus content: Melting a bow forward Iowa with Gneisenau secondaries and HEAP (impractical but still amusing to watch a tier 7 kill a tier 9 with only secondaries in under 3 minutes)

 

edit: I can't format for shit.

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I've been mostly away from this game since October, so bare with me.  This is a new shell coming in an upcoming patch?  Does it have reduced fire chances (or some other change), or is it just a straight buff to HE shells?  I've missed any previous discussion of this.

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1 minute ago, Mesrith said:

I've been mostly away from this game since October, so bare with me.  This is a new shell coming in an upcoming patch?  Does it have reduced fire chances (or some other change), or is it just a straight buff to HE shells?  I've missed any previous discussion of this.

HEAP was recently buffed on PT 0.6.0 #2

It's a 4-point captain skill with removes 3% fire chance (additive, so 12% fire chance becomes 9%) in return for a 30% boost in HE penetration (which does not account for angling in calculations).

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Just now, Flametz said:

HEAP was recently buffed on PT 0.6.0 #2

It's a 4-point captain skill with removes 3% fire chance (additive, so 12% fire chance becomes 9%) in return for a 30% boost in HE penetration (which does not account for angling in calculations).

Ok, that sounds much better.  Thanks.

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7 minutes ago, SoliDeoGloria said:

It's a must have on 152mm ships with HE, and 100mm destroyers. Probably very useful with ships like Ishizuchi, I might do some testing on live, because I have a spare ijn 10pt captain from santa boxes.

I've also tested various things outside German BB HE citadels on cruisers (lol this Pensacola and Minotaur)

TWOHFbc.jpg

4gj9DmF.jpg

It looks like HEAP on the 5" and 5.1" guns of tier 5-7 DDs benefit greatly against battleships (Farragut outputting 2900 dmg salvos on a Colorado... lol), while the tier 8+ DDs with IJN 127mm/VMF 130mm guns will definitely see an improvement in cruiser-melting jobs where their arc allows them to hit reliably (though less universal and more questionable to take).

 

As for Ishizuchi, I find no benefit to HEAP on it as it does not penetrate any new surfaces with it (unless you shoot at Tenryuus often)

It's probably better on a Konig Albert where HE penetration bumps up to 99mm.

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2 hours ago, OnboardG1 said:

DDs are also going to have to ask themselves if their damage output comes from fire or from raw damage. Because losing 3% fire chance HURTS. 

I've also been wondering this with secondary build BB's. I saw a video where someone tested it with a Bismark. The secondaries did a lot more damage with IFHE, but the fire was reduced about the same amount. One of the best things about a Bismark secondary build is that you can keep constant fires on the enemy, and I've even gotten wither with it. Anyone have any additional thoughts on using IFHE with secondary build ships like the Bismark.

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You can't tell which skills and flags a BB capt. is flying, nor which consumable loadout he is using.  When I play tier 10 matches in the Kutuzov, I have started as many as 13 fires and done less than 20k in fire damage.  Guys with with the right modules, flags and premium consumables can manage to put fires out quickly - and routinely - the chance at getting more pens/damage in exchange for starting fewer fires might more than make up the difference.

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20 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

am I the only one who thinks that this looks extremely bullshit, especially from a BB captains perspective.

Nope you're not the only one. I feel like chai sniping at the border of the map now. 

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Well, all I can say is, that the fire-fighting skill is a must have now, for every BB-captain. In the grand spanking way of things, sniping is now more effective as well, as a counter-HE measure, since they are more likely to hit super-structure, while having no problem penetrating the bow of your ship up close, because that was totally necessary right? Didn't they try to weaken BB-front armor? Yeah, bravo WG, nice way of sneaking that one in without anyone noticing and complaining unlike last time.

If they must break the BB-meta, they have to, sure. But incentivicing BBs to snipe even more, is not the sensible solution. Oh and complaining about it is pointless, really. It is clear that they are going through with these changes no matter what we think of them. That much became clear, when they adressed our concerns regarding radio locationing by renaming the skill.

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24 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Well, all I can say is, that the fire-fighting skill is a must have now, for every BB-captain. In the grand spanking way of things, sniping is now more effective as well, as a counter-HE measure, since they are more likely to hit super-structure, while having no problem penetrating the bow of your ship up close, because that was totally necessary right? Didn't they try to weaken BB-front armor? Yeah, bravo WG, nice way of sneaking that one in without anyone noticing and complaining unlike last time.

If they must break the BB-meta, they have to, sure. But incentivicing BBs to snipe even more, is not the sensible solution. Oh and complaining about it is pointless, really. It is clear that they are going through with these changes no matter what we think of them. That much became clear, when they adressed our concerns regarding radio locationing by renaming the skill.

They can pen your bow from long range too. HE doesn't take into account angle.

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For people curious about the avg raw dmg per HE shell impact from the Cleveland:

Without HEAP (110.25 raw dmg per shell):

gFfu1Mm.jpg

With HEAP (389.24 raw dmg per shell):

XrKRFpX.jpg

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1 hour ago, SoliDeoGloria said:

They can pen your bow from long range too. HE doesn't take into account angle.

If they can hit the bow and that is the thing. At long range they are most likely to hit the largest hitbox you have and the stern and especially the bow have a much smaller area to hit than the (combined) center hitbox.

1 hour ago, Flametz said:

For people curious about the avg raw dmg per HE shell impact from the Cleveland:

Without HEAP (110.25 raw dmg per shell):

gFfu1Mm.jpg

With HEAP (389.24 raw dmg per shell):

XrKRFpX.jpg

Even taking the reduced fire-damage into account, you finished that sucker much faster with HEAP than regular HE. I am kind of expecting that. Sure, you'll set less fires as somebody wrote earlier, but you will also deal a lot more damage while trying to light a fire that you are eventually going to light up due to the volume of shots you throw at the enemy.

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I know AP penetration drops of at range. Did the same happen with HE? If so that does mean that boarder sniping really is the counter.  

Seems like the best fix for this skill is to limit it to guns under 150mm like to do with BFT.

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14 minutes ago, MntRunner said:

I know AP penetration drops of at range. Did the same happen with HE? If so that does mean that boarder sniping really is the counter.  

Seems like the best fix for this skill is to limit it to guns under 150mm like to do with BFT.

No, HE (like WoT) retains penetration at all ranges.

Unlike WoT, HE in this game does not care about angle. A 33mm penetration HE shell will smash through a 32mm bow armor at every angle with no autobounce angle, so even so much as scraping the armor plate = damage.

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2 hours ago, Jarkorsis said:

have any of you looked at T9 or T10 CAs like Roon, Hindenburg Ibuki, or Tsao.

According to the graph posted above, 203mm guns gain basically nothing from this, besides a reduced fire chance, so I doubt it would be worth it on any of them.

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