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Mesrith

WoWS Final 6.0 Commander Skills

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14 minutes ago, cheereereerios said:

Yeah, I tried this on PTS. They both launch, basically join up at one point behind you, then circle in opposite directions. According to the patch notes, instead of 360 seconds (6 minutes) it is now 90 seconds (1.5 minutes).

Cool, that could be interesting even with a reduced cooldown.

I guess I'm still used to having great choices like Basics of Survivability and Basic Firing Training at tier 1, but the new tier 1 stuff all feels like garbage.

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Expert loader is pretty great on a tournament ship. 

Speaking of which this dropped three days before the King of the Sea tournament on EU. The original line was RDF would be banned if the skills dropped prior to the tournament but WG says no. A few teddies may have been thrown from prams.

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1 hour ago, OnboardG1 said:

Expert loader is pretty great on a tournament ship. 

Speaking of which this dropped three days before the King of the Sea tournament on EU. The original line was RDF would be banned if the skills dropped prior to the tournament but WG says no. A few teddies may have been thrown from prams.

Can we please get that last sentence in proper American?

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Question: considering the fucking awful low tier skills, could adrenaline rush (now up to 20% RoF boost, which is not nothing) come into fashion for a ship like the Bismarck?

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3 hours ago, bathoz said:

Question: considering the fucking awful low tier skills, could adrenaline rush (now up to 20% RoF boost, which is not nothing) come into fashion for a ship like the Bismarck?

if you have 2 points to spare, i guess, but turret traverse and 10% less to repair party time seem better

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As a USN DD captain I really hate how Radio Location seems mandatory to locate the enemy DD when contesting for caps. So along with CE you have 2 mandatory 4 pointers that are entirely relative (both don't add much to the gameplay, but if the opponent takes them and you don't, you are fucked).

For my Gearing I want Torp Accel but Last Stand is a must have. At least I don't need AFT on the Gearing.

For the Udaloi it's aggravating. AFT is a must have but I also love CE on the Udaloi and, as I said, RL seems mandatory unless I will refuse to cap for my team...

On one hand this is good as it really forces you to make choices. OTH I wish RL would be a one point skill as it seems in mostly the same spot than SA was earlier on.

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If you want ce on the udalol then drop DE or SE. Honestly I think it's less critical than the other skills because the VMF DDs don't like close engagements.

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BTW: pve player influx confirmed? Since bots cheat anyway and just rush straight towards the most squishy target within a certain distance this makes rdf completely irrelevant. :doge:

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I am only going to work with one commander at a time till I understand the overall effects of this change.  Right now:  Russian Cruiser Capt.

 

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How does Expert Loader work? Whenever I switch ammo types (whether fully reloaded or in the middle of a cycle) I still get the full cool down. 

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4 minutes ago, Kilpanic said:

How does Expert Loader work? Whenever I switch ammo types (whether fully reloaded or in the middle of a cycle) I still get the full cool down. 

From my experience it only works when fully loaded. Personally I don't think it's a skill worth taking unless you use it with the Steven Segal captain. Even then I think it's only useful if you have him trained as a cruiser captain.  DD's reload fast enough that the skill doesn't add much benefit, and BB's should mostly be using AP and it still takes about 8 seconds to switch which is enough time where you could miss the opportunity to use the different shell type.

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I disagree, expert loader is an excellent skill if you have a spare point and good in its own right. It's particularly strong on tournament BBs and cruisers generally since it allows you to contextually switch ammunition type when you predict an enemy making a maneuver.

For example, someone calls damage con in a tournament game. With expert loader I can have an HE shell landing the second an enemy damage Con is down.

Alternatively, if I see a cruiser pulling a suicide turn in my Zao I can have AP up and going exactly when I need to to hit his broadside.

 

 

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You have more experience with competitive team play, so I defer to @OnboardG1 in that case. I was mostly speaking from a pub battle experience, where I've found that my BB AP is still sufficient enough to either kill or severely damage a DD that gets close enough to be spotted. My biggest weakness against DD's is when they appear while I'm in the middle of a reload and when expert loader doesn't seem to work. By time I finish reloading or switch to a different ammo I've already missed the opportunity against the DD.

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I'll try it again, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't working on my ARP boats when fully loaded. 

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2 hours ago, Kilpanic said:

I'll try it again, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't working on my ARP boats when fully loaded. 

OK I can see that it works, but I think it only works if you haven't preselected the other ammo type; ie if you have HE loaded but had hit 2 for the next volley to be AP, when you switch it goes through the whole load cycle. That's annoying. 

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10 hours ago, MntRunner said:

You have more experience with competitive team play, so I defer to @OnboardG1 in that case. I was mostly speaking from a pub battle experience, where I've found that my BB AP is still sufficient enough to either kill or severely damage a DD that gets close enough to be spotted. My biggest weakness against DD's is when they appear while I'm in the middle of a reload and when expert loader doesn't seem to work. By time I finish reloading or switch to a different ammo I've already missed the opportunity against the DD.

BB AP is probably better vs DD's... when i see a BB shoot HE at me, its bad, but AP has the potential to take half my HP or more. Last week, a Missouri shot at my Fletcher from 8km away and took me from 20k down to 1.5k

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2 hours ago, Crossfader said:

BB AP is probably better vs DD's... when i see a BB shoot HE at me, its bad, but AP has the potential to take half my HP or more. Last week, a Missouri shot at my Fletcher from 8km away and took me from 20k down to 1.5k

Ouch !!  Love doing that when I'm in my Nikolai at about 8km with all 8 guns .... and the DD is just gone.

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Sigh I don't know what to do with all my captains now, I have like 12 ships, all with captains with over 10 points, couple at 14, now I don't know how to build them. I have some ideas but sigh

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I'd try to get at least 1 tier 4 perk with a tier 10 captain especially Concealment Expert on DDs or AFT on other ships to boost AA or smaller guns range. 

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I've looked through my lines, and tentatively I've divided them into "can fit/use RFP" and cannot (assuming ±16 point captains).

Can:

IJN, RN, KM cruisers (Belfast needs its own Captain)

Can't/won't:

IJN, USN, KM BBs, VMF CLs (mid tier), DDs (all of them), CVs (why would they?).

It's a good skill, but there's a lot of important stuff I'm leaving out that I want. And I can replicate RFP with brains a lot of the time. I can't replicate IFHE or concealment expert, or the raft of tier 3 skills DDs need/want.

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On 1/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Mesrith said:

Priority Target - Seems like a decent use of a point for many cruisers that want to avoid surprise citadel beatdowns.  I think general player skill and map awareness is enough to not need it, but for one point it's good information to have.  I wouldn't bother in destroyers (which usually pick isolated engagements) or battleships (which usually have half the team shooting at you anyway).  After reviewing the other choices, there's literally nothing else I'd even want to use on a destroyer.

One thing that is amazing with this skill is that it tells you when you can be aggressive or bail as a cruiser. Little to no targets on you (for instance you see 1 but you know it is a DD HE spamming you) means you can either turn and bail (assuming no BBs are quick with a snap shot), or you can take a more daring path and/or expose more broadside for more firepower when otherwise you might have to be a bit more conservative. Yes you can kind of use intuition and good dodging to mitigate this but the ability to act with near certainty allows focus on other aspects of the game and allows you to be more greedy without being punished. 

On 1/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Mesrith said:

Preventative Maintenance - Still not very useful, even for one point.  My interpretation of a Q&A question I asked about PM was that it does nothing to keep secondaries and AA alive, since they're not considered modules.  It also does not prevent full destruction of main battery and torpedoes, but will lower the chance of temporary incapacitation of engine, rudder, main battery, and torpedoes.  Equipment and Last Stand handle those better.

Probably a DD only skill. Works well as a counter to the high tier torpedo reload module which makes torpedo tubes more fragile. A saving throw against a broken engine or rudder can help win DD duels where such things can happen multiple times in a row. 

On 1/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Mesrith said:

Expert Loader - Still very situational, but I'd like to know what the new text means.  Did it not work before (bugged?) when a turret was broken?  Does it now increase reload when you have a broken turret, regardless of whether you're switching shell type?  No clue.

Pretty sure just a tool tip clarification if I recall correctly.

On 1/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Mesrith said:

Direction Center for Catapult Aircraft - I'm struggling to understand why this would be useful enough to warrant a point.  I guess you get a backup spotter plane in case yours is shot down?  Is the second fighter craft worth the slower reaction they'll have?  Most good carrier players are already great at killing or avoiding scout fighters already, I'm not sure a second one will do much against them.

As mentioned above two spotter planes circle your ship on opposite sides. Probably the sole reason BB fighter scouts got nerfed in the same patch since they otherwise would provide too much vision (spotting torps mainly but also ships obscured by islands). Would be very powerful against say a strike Lexington when in a group of 3-4 (think 2 BBs and 1-2 CAs) where these fighters would be unavoidable and disable quite a few squads. Forcing enemy fighters into AA bubbles to clear also takes time and enemy planes. Probably the default high tier BB tier 1 skill (sans Missouri), but also has lucrative use on CAs where they serve as a 6 minute mini def AA and hydro.

It was this and the 1 2 3 4 3 3 3 build that allowed for an absurdly tanky BB build with good resistances to planes, torpedoes, and fires before they nerfed fire prevention and the catapult fighters. 

On 1/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Mesrith said:

Dogfighting Expert - The new +10% fighter ammo probably makes it worth taking again for one point; it's been very debatable since the carrier MM changes.

The new carrier upgrade for fighter hp now also gives +50% fighter ammunition, no need for this. Other skills are better. 

On 1/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Mesrith said:

Evasive Maneuver - I don't know enough about carrier play to know the value of this, aside from letting you derp your planes back to your ship through the middle of the enemy fleet a bit more effectively.

IIRC majority feedback on this skill is negative since it actively reduces the turn around time of strike planes. I have heard it now only activates on a recall order instead of after dropping so theoretically you can use it and try to save bombers that have been caught on the way back (default manual move order back for speed, only use recall order to activate this when caught). Not sure if CV players will consider it even after that change though. 

On 1/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Mesrith said:

Inertial Fuse for High Explosive - There are already good discussions of this skill elsewhere on this forum.  I don't really own any cruisers that are primary HE-throwers, but I'm curious to see what the consensus is for gunboat destroyers.

Would need to test. My instinct is that gunboats rely on way too many other skills for this. RU DDs already have AP for higher DPM and no fires and USN DDs have torps. Both need other skills to fully milk their power. Probably best used on Atlanta/Flint, 150-155mm CLS, 180mm CLs, and Akizuki. 

On 1/17/2017 at 8:33 AM, Mesrith said:

Radio Location - Another trendy new skill that I'm not sure will have as large an impact as many think.  If you're playing a lone-wolf flanking destroyer early in the game, you're already not doing enough to help your team.  If Radio Location finds you late in the game it could be annoying, but an alert enemy probably already knows your general location due to old map information, seeing which direction your torpedoes are coming from, any lingering smoke, or even his dead teammates telling him "hey, there's probably a destroyer in D5".  I don't see myself using 4 points on this.

RPF probably has the most impact on DD v DD which a surprisingly low amount of players caught. It likely isn't worth it in battleships, and will likely be decently useful for radar cruisers + the RN CLs. I could definitely see it on a Benson or perhaps Chapaev in a competitive setting. You can abuse RPF in DD v DD in cap dominance and exerting control over a flank, especially when you know your DD should theoretically win in a duel with the enemy DD. You can potentially track mid game concealed relocations by enemy DDs, especially in a DD yourself. You can also theoretically triangulate with RPF and also tell if an enemy ship has RPF or not, but these are more situational. 

I see RPF like game theory in DD v DD situations. If you have it you can run down enemy DDs (RU), stalk and hunt enemy DDs (USN/KM), or avoid and misdirect enemy DDs (IJN DDs), but if both parties have it both players can try to neutralize it and both parties are forced into sinking a lot of time and resources into each other for nothing other than say posture and control instead of results. When DDs are more aware of each other with certainty they have less windows to wreak havoc on the enemy team without dealing with each other first. They both would probably get better damage results targeting larger classes with a build that includes other useful skills, but RPF provides a large advantage if only one DD has it, and could possibly escalate into it being mandatory depending on how the meta develops. Or it could fade into just a strong niche skill. This is all theorycraft and I would need experience it myself (will likely experiment with a 14 point Benson with CE and RPF) before I draw decisive conclusions. 

Time will tell but I do dislike the principle of the skill overall and I think it could provide too much information. Whether players can successfully use such information is up for debate. So are skill matchups up for debate. (Who gets more benefit in a DD duel? The lower skilled player that didn't know or anticipate the enemy's presence in the first place now having that information and thus isn't caught off guard, or the higher skilled player who did have intuition of where the DD is or might be but can now act and play around absolute certainty of the information he/she is given? The former is given free intuition while the latter can force pressure and plays much safer and with more speed and certainty.)

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Yeah, after having some experience with the new patch I've come around to a few skills that seem "meh" on paper.  I'll get a bit more specific after I've gone through a few more of my ships, but my quick takeaways are:

- that IFHE is just as strong as everybody said it would be, but mostly around tier 7.

- radio location is "cool", and could be critical in team/clan battles, but is "no shit" information 90% of the time in randoms.  It's strong on certain ships, but I don't see it as mandatory at all.

-Priority Target is the skill that everybody should be talking about, but nobody is because people fixate on things like cruiser damage and destroyer detection.  Having a UI element essentially tell you when you can go ham in your cruiser and when you need to bow tank, drop smoke, or go dark is stupidly powerful for one point.

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12 hours ago, Psycodiver said:

Sigh I don't know what to do with all my captains now, I have like 12 ships, all with captains with over 10 points, couple at 14, now I don't know how to build them. I have some ideas but sigh

Yeah, other than a few ez mode ships ( Bismarck - Leander ) where the build is mostly obvious - I am really going to have to experiment to find the right choices - the 1 dubloon per skill point reset is a fair system through the end of the month.

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I just tried IFHE on my kutuzov and I seems pretty good, I was still able to get 13 fires and I got more consistent dmg on my salvos

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