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striker1424

Emil I vs Emil II - Which do you prefer?

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So which do I prefer? Can't respond with neither I guess? But would take the II if forced to stick with one, as it straight up cuts it against Tier X.

Got the second engine on the II which is a massive upgrade. So doing better now. It's an undeniably strong tank. Have had an E5 and an IS-7 resort to spamming my turret with HE after failing with their other rounds.

But the extra reload time equals extra yolo time for the opposition and the unwillingness of random teammates to drive a handful or two of pixel metres and feed on the pricks tunnel-visioning you is astounding. The turret traverse is unbearably slow. And the number of shells I've already watched disappear into the ground...

The tier 10 has the best traits of the I & II and adds better turret traverse and gun handling. So my grind continues.

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After acing the Emil II, I can say it is a much better tank than the Emil I. Emil II's turret is just so much better and the gun penetration and alpha bonus is great.shot_056.jpg

However, I can also see that neither tank is overpowered and calling them so is just plain wrong. The Emil I is great when top tier since many things will bounce off of it, but as soon as you're out of hull down you die. When you get into higher tier games it's even worse as heat rounds destroy your turret. The Emil II is similar. When you cannot go hull down, you are essentially a crappy 50 120. Everything will pen you, your gun handling is awful, your speed is very average etc etc. The turret is a lot stronger but you can still be penned by premium rounds if not using the full -12 gun depression. Not to mention that both tanks have pretty bad reloads. People tend to fire HE at the turret after bouncing and then damage your gun too.

I'm considering re-buying the Emil I purely because of the sale, but I don't think that either tank is particularly well rounded. Of course if you can get them hulldown you feel like a God but it's not like you're unkillable.

One last thing - arty eats these tanks. Dont expect to ever take light damage from them - if you get hit in the top you will get penned. Pray to the RNG lords that it hits your turret or misses you completely.

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Close to the end of the grind.

Even if i manage to break my top dmg with 10k, i still don't enjoy this tank.

http://wotreplays.com/site/3294494#karelia-serprotease-emil_ii

The low shell speed with the lousy accuracy, the somewhat bad gun handling and long reload time kinda kill it for me.

It's not bad at all, just annoying to play

Unlike the emil 1, i will not keep it. Hopefully, it seems that the Kranvagn correct some of this issues

 

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2 hours ago, Serprotease said:

Close to the end of the grind.

Even if i manage to break my top dmg with 10k, i still don't enjoy this tank.

http://wotreplays.com/site/3294494#karelia-serprotease-emil_ii

The low shell speed with the lousy accuracy, the somewhat bad gun handling and long reload time kinda kill it for me.

It's not bad at all, just annoying to play

Unlike the emil 1, i will not keep it. Hopefully, it seems that the Kranvagn correct some of this issues

 

My opinion too. I am struggling to get decent results with it. At Emil 1 i finished the grind with 60% WR and 1800+dmg, with Emil 2 i am around 2 k dmg...which is bad even for my standards.

I think that the accuracy is deceptive, or rather the shell speed is too bad to work with such a bad gun handling/penetration. HEAT is so slow and unreliable, and base APCR is much slower than Emil gold round (since spamming HEAT actually does not get better results unless you fire on super heavies, just try to hit meds with preloaded HEAT).

Somehow I found the Emil 1 to be much more enjoyable, and even better tier for tier. maybe the competition at tier 9 is simply so much harder, and even in tier 9/10 battles the tiny underdog Emil 1 could perform just fine...

Maybe it was since there was only one "correct" type of shells, and in Emil 2 depending on situation...Both 252 APCR and 300 HEAT are horrible sometimes...silver ammo if you meet armored tanks, and gold for everything else that can move or has spaced armor...

On 2/5/2017 at 1:34 PM, striker1424 said:

After acing the Emil II, I can say it is a much better tank than the Emil I. Emil II's turret is just so much better and the gun penetration and alpha bonus is great.

One last thing - arty eats these tanks. Dont expect to ever take light damage from them - if you get hit in the top you will get penned. Pray to the RNG lords that it hits your turret or misses you completely.

Somehow arty either ignored me in Emil 1, or missed me more often. Not sure how, buf in Emil 2 I got a lot more full pens from arty than in Emil 1.

And arty focus is unbearable. I mean, it is even worse than in a Conq, stronger turret + time to unload the clip is longer than in Emil 1 means more exposure to skycancer. 

It is a much more capable tank, and ceiling is higher...but it lacks consistency of Emil 1. That intraclip difference feels much bigger than 0.33 sec. possibly the tanks have more repair skills/reload kits a tier higher.

On the other hand, well-handled IS-3s could mop the floor with me in Emil 1, while engaging tier 9 heavies is a piece of cake for Emil 2 (Just find a hulldown spot)...but somehow something goes wrong far too often.

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8 hours ago, Felicius said:

but somehow something goes wrong far too often.

Clearly pubbies read chat as much as they check the mini map. Because the number of times my team has yolo-pushed and evaporated while I'm reloading...

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I'm playing this tank wrong. Just keep getting shat on while reloading. I'm looking at the mini map. I know my pubbie teammates have easy shots at the reds yoloing me. But the support fire never comes. Because why would you farm easy damage? Time to start platooning.

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23 hours ago, sohojacques said:

I'm playing this tank wrong. Just keep getting shat on while reloading. I'm looking at the mini map. I know my pubbie teammates have easy shots at the reds yoloing me. But the support fire never comes. Because why would you farm easy damage? Time to start platooning.

Use Skoda T50. One OP tank to carry your sorry ass to victory. no armor, but plenty of mobility, great gun, and even some camo. You have just the turret armor. 

skoda is the perfect tank to punish mistakes, and pubbies make a lot of them when playing against emils (like Yoloing).

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4 hours ago, Felicius said:

One ... tank to carry your sorry ass to victory. 

Just aced the Emil II thanks to a lone random pubbie in a Super Perishing keeping me afloat through two enemy yolo attempts while I was on reload. Without his support I would have been dead before 5 minutes had passed. And he lost no health doing so, as their tunnel-vision was irrepressible. Need to put his name up in lights in the name and praise thread.

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Haven't had a problem with the reload or interclip, personally. I just follow the textbook rules for low burst autoloaders:

  • Do not yolo.
  • Do not go anywhere alone.
  • Do not go anywhere you can't escape.

And on top of that, some Emil specific stuff, I.E the obvious "always hulldown". The interclip doesn't really bother me because of the armor - even when I'm peaking onto an entire flank's worth of tanks (i.e westfield) it's pretty normal for me to dump my clip and only take a single damaging shot in return. Because of this I tend to do it as soon as my first clip is loaded, since it's very unlikely arty will be aimed in that early on.

The only issue to me is that the gun is derpy, but frankly the only autoloaders that don't feel horrific to play are the ones on scouts. Even the 50B was a complete dice roll to me - the last time I played a reliable high tier autoloader was the pre-nerf, pre-HEAT nerf T57.

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1 hour ago, Rexxie said:

Haven't had a problem with the reload or interclip, personally. I just follow the textbook rules for low burst autoloaders:

  • Do not yolo.
  • Do not go anywhere alone.
  • Do not go anywhere you can't escape.

..

The only issue to me is that the gun is derpy, but frankly the only autoloaders that don't feel horrific to play are the ones on scouts. Even the 50B was a complete dice roll to me - the last time I played a reliable high tier autoloader was the pre-nerf, pre-HEAT nerf T57.

Those three rules makes sense and still make me queezy. I have a girl crew and decent boy band for the Swedish tanks but I havent even started them since I hate TDs and dislike non-scout autoloaders (the little I've played them).

How do you manage? Do you platoon when you play autoloaders (which I assume can make it more fun) or do you just avoid them?

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4 hours ago, Rexxie said:

 

  • Do not yolo.
  • Do not go anywhere alone.
  • Do not go anywhere you can't escape.

Being quite stupid, I am guilty of all three. But I'm talking about all the times a red yolos around the hard cover I'm behind into the line of fire of several of my teammates yet receives no damage. Had a couple of horror sessions recently because of this.

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I have a girl crew and decent boy band for the Swedish tanks but I havent even started them

I would have stopped at the Strv 74 if it wasn't for the free female crew turning up. Hate grinding up functional crews (the Strv 74 without 6th sense...).  But I would of missed out on the Leo with the 10cm if I had. Worst stats/most fun I've had on the grind so far.

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I did like the Leo on ST but the T20 and the (yet again) buffed VK30.02D both feel like better tanks. Strv 74 is as far as I got and I did like it. But I already have a Rudy and a Cromwell so I have no real reason to keep it.

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I really concur with what Rexxie said, it's quite hard to imagine why would anyone prefer Emil I to Emil II.

Compared to traditional clip dmg dealers, it's much more similar to a heavium IMO. Cruising speed is around 35-40, and that sweet 54 max speed is easily achievable on slopes. The ability to (reverse) sidescrape + invincible turret + autobounce UFP + crazy small silhouette gives it insane gud staying power. Like Rexxie mentioned, the turret is a no-go zone even when off-angle. This is handy when fighting multiple targets. Combined with acceptable view range, this enables you to spot "is-7 style" from time to time: opponents will be attracted to shoot you, and you can profit from it.

DPM is lacking for a heavium, but who cares about DPM in a clip tank:tanfiesta: More often than not, you will be able to grab early-game positions and assassinate an overextending opponent with little HP loss. When you are reloading, just stick your turret out: HE does a meagre amount of damage frontally, and the amount of dmg you soak will keep your meatshields, I mean teammates, alive -- which is a crucial aspect of any clip tank.

Solo in this thing is so so satisfying. Being a scrub that I am, I am able to pull off a 68% winrate ~200 game, which is tryhard in any other clip tanks for me. The tank let me down a few times with its 300 HEAT pen and slow turret traverse, but I can't complain.

One thing to take note is that I was properly balanced by arty many times. You need 10 sec to unload all your shells, which is within arty aimtime. HE will splash into your weak side and melt your tenku like a butter. But once you get moving, the small silhouette will cause a lot of trouble for skycancers. Imagine 155 58 had you locked on when you are poking, and you wiggles your way out and get splashed by ~200.

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Ran Prem Petrol on the Emil 1 on a whim today, really gave the thing a much needed boost in speed and turret traverse.

Maybe if the commander had Jack of All Trades I can get away without a medkit and running food + gas

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On 3/17/2017 at 3:46 PM, Fianii said:

Ran Prem Petrol on the Emil 1 on a whim today, really gave the thing a much needed boost in speed and turret traverse.

Maybe if the commander had Jack of All Trades I can get away without a medkit and running food + gas

i never burned in the whole grind. but crew death was as bad as module dmg, so i guess you pick food or gas, not both.

engine is too weak to have real benefit from gas, that works for tanks with plenty of horses+bad terrain resist.

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Emil II is a straight upgrade from Emil I, much better tier for tier. The turret is much closer to invincible, the clip damage is enough to kill most T8s, increased alpha makes shots of opportunity better early game, the pen is mostly adequate, sure you don't want to fight a Maus frontally but what T9 does?

The trick is to not hide between reloads like most auto loaders, you can do so much work for your team by constantly peeking your invulnerable turret and keeping pubbies interested. I've fended off tanks 4v1 while on reload because I keep peeking and they just stop dead to shoot at me, what other autoloader can defend itself between clips? Only 22 games deep but running 77% wr solo so far with ~3300 dpg.

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Well, I'm grinding the Emil I at the moment. I have to say, I'm not enjoying it at the moment.

The stock grind is painful beyond measure. Firstly, it's slow for such a small, no-armour tank. Really slow. With terrible power-to-weight ratio that makes climbing hills (where it is most effective) painful. The mobility is so painful I actually went tracks --> engine --> gun in the grind.

The stock gun is pretty bad. 179 pen on tier 8 with a 30+ section clip reload means it's either load a lot of gold or run the risk that half your clip will bounce or that you end up simply holding your shots because you know you can't pen. Also, not being able to pen an IS3 from the front anywhere near reliably is an awful feeling. Low pen not helped by terribly derpy gun handling. The intra-clip reload of 3 seconds also feels too long, so often that second shot isn't quite available before a tank can get into cover so you don't feel like you're getting good value out of the clip.

Maybe because it's my second autoloader after the old Bulldog, which allows you to flank really easily and escape somewhere safe while reloading that I'm not used to with the Emil, which is too slow to run away if cornered on reload. I'm struggling to be completely honest and not really liking it.

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I'm only on the Emil I, but I've already noticed one thing that I can do in it that I could never do in the AMXs, I don't need to back off to reload.  In fact I can actually get hull down and pretty aggressively peak and poke while reloading and bounce a few shots.  With an AMX, when it disappears the reds know your down a tank and they can push - with the swedes, unless somebody counted - they never need to know when your clipping.  Basically, instead of hiding behind a building to reload - you hide behind your turret.

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On 1/31/2017 at 7:51 PM, Rexxie said:

Now that I'm well into the Emil 2 grind, I've got to say that I'm having a hard time imagining why anyone would prefer the Emil 1. The Emil 2 is overpowered, capable of far more extreme feats of capability while also being far more reliable thanks to the penetration, handling, and armor. 330mm of turret armor + -12 gundep on a mobile, 1600 burst autoloader with 250/300 pen should not be in the game. It outperforms the 50 120/54E1 to such an absurd degree that I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with this staying in the game as-is.

If there's no arty in a match, you can go hulldown in front of an entire flank and just sit there. Every map like this - Mines, Prokh, Malinovka, Westfield, Ruinburg, etc. are virtually unlosable without arty interference. If there's a hill involved, this tank is capable of bullying almost any tank in the game - even T10s. If there's no hill involved, you're a smaller 50 120 with incredible armor over 2/3s of its profile.

Or, you can have the Emil 1, bounce half your clip off an IS-6, then be brutalized by a T34's AP rounds. One of these tanks is balanced, the other is "balanced".

I'm curious: do you still have this opinion about the Emil 2? A lot has changed in the game since you did this grind. 

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On 10/19/2017 at 6:52 PM, Tarski said:

I'm curious: do you still have this opinion about the Emil 2? A lot has changed in the game since you did this grind. 

I don't play tanks anymore, so I couldn't say! I'd think the new MM is the biggest change to the tank; having much fewer T7s and T8s in your games would make the 1600 burst autoloader a fair bit less effective than it used to be. Tanks have gotten a bit better armored, but 300 HEAT should still be enough, and the maps are identical to how they were back in January.  The entire line has gotten weaker, but the Emil 2 is probably the least affected of the T8/9/10 just because it is the only one without major pen issues.

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