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Pz. VII, German Tier 10 HT

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35 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Oh well at least it sort of has weakspots though I'm not keen on the fact that aside cupola you need like 280-290 pen to reliably go through the front. 

I'd also question the role of the IS4, IS7, 215b, even the E5 now with this thing, the Maus and the Type 5. As far as I can tell they have over buffed the super heavies far too much, the DPM and gun handling is just encroaching too much on the other tanks whilst they have massively superior armour and HP.  Going 35kph is not a big advantage to losing some much in other areas. 

 

I don't mind farming on all these superheavies in a FV215b, really don't.

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Whether or not it's a good idea, actually especially if it's not a good idea, I expect all heavies that haven't already to get buffed.

WG really wants to get more people playing heavies so they have an excuse to buff arty...

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Yea IS-7 could use some love now, its probably the worst tier 10 HT after the changes, but nothing significant as the tank is not really bad at all. Just buff the gun handling and accuracy, or DPM, or buff terrain resists. Knowing WG though they will go and buff DPM, gun handling AND mobility LUL

IS-4 is sorta fine tbh, just buff the bloom a bit 

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3 hours ago, Megrin said:

I don't mind farming on all these superheavies in a FV215b, really don't.

The problem is even if you are good to beat someone in a new superbuffed Maus what if he goes the other flank and rolls over your entire team so you are 5+ tanks back? The problem with such tanks for strong players isn't 1 vs 1 but how much they can hurt your team. Still it's a smaller problem for the 215b than for thanks that can only work as support. 

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2 hours ago, Griphos said:

I've just been playing the Maus on the CT.  People seem to be having little trouble penning it.  

Is that not because everyone on CT spams insane amounts of gold comparatively to the live server? I mean even though most people load gold the minute they see a Maus, but not everyone does, as supposed to having it loaded by default like on the test server. The CT is horrible for testing how useful armour is going to be for this reason every time, I really wish they tried out more penetration re-balances on the sandbox or something.

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3 hours ago, Griphos said:

I've just been playing the Maus on the CT.  People seem to be having little trouble penning it.  

Because giving 100 millions and 20k gold to fuck around allows any testing right?

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@Norbar: Seems to be wherever they happen to be aiming.  Sides (and I'm sidescraping at optimum angles), mantlet, cheeks.  I haven't noticed any pens on UFP or LFP yet (I'm not letting them see the gap between tracks).  Mostly turret, it seems.  

And, as for the other comments, sure, they're using gold, but then counting on pubbies not to use gold on the regular servers when facing a side-scraping Maus is kind of wishful thinking, isn't it?  I don't know, I've not played one on regular servers, but I always load gold to play against one, unless they're in the open and I can hit the LFP gap (or their sides).  

I'm off to the CT again to try the VK VII.  It's faster, cuter, and seems about as tough.  

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16 hours ago, Griphos said:

@Norbar: Seems to be wherever they happen to be aiming.  Sides (and I'm sidescraping at optimum angles), mantlet, cheeks.  I haven't noticed any pens on UFP or LFP yet (I'm not letting them see the gap between tracks).  Mostly turret, it seems.  

And, as for the other comments, sure, they're using gold, but then counting on pubbies not to use gold on the regular servers when facing a side-scraping Maus is kind of wishful thinking, isn't it?  I don't know, I've not played one on regular servers, but I always load gold to play against one, unless they're in the open and I can hit the LFP gap (or their sides).  

I'm off to the CT again to try the VK VII.  It's faster, cuter, and seems about as tough.  

Mantlet and cheeks make sense but not sides. This is the screen of a pre buff maus with a perfect angle against 340 pen heat. As you see it's hardly an easy pen.

Zrzut ekranu 2017-02-04 o 17.35.15.png

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I'm just telling you what has been happening.  Perfect angling off corner on tank alley on Himmels, and pen after pen in side.  My E 100 would have been immune at the angle I was showing.  Some of it was HE from those Japanese monstrosities, but some of it was APCR and HEAT.  

Other battles, and it bounces better.

 

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You were angling your maus wrong if you bounced more with a less armored tank. E100 bounces a bit more if they hit the strip of extra spaced armor. Otherwise it is weaker. Pic vs 325mm acpr on the amx 50b

Zrzut ekranu 2017-02-04 o 22.16.57.png

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I was angling it correctly.  Just like the picture you have above, or even more acute.  What I was saying is that the E 100, angled the same, would have bounced more, not that I was angling the Maus the way I would angle the E 100.  

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17 hours ago, Griphos said:

I was angling it correctly.  Just like the picture you have above, or even more acute.  What I was saying is that the E 100, angled the same, would have bounced more, not that I was angling the Maus the way I would angle the E 100.  

The thing is those pictures above prove you wrong. The maus angled perfectly bounces more vs 340pen than E100 vs 315pen. The turret angled that way is harder to pen on the Maus. The only way they could have pen you if they know about the behind the tracks weakspot but that only works vs acpr and cp and you still have to show it to them which isn't necessary. 

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Actually, the picture "proves" nothing in any way.  They are representations of armor layouts.  You do realize that those pictures are not what is used by the game engine to decide whether a shell pens you or not, right?  You're being theoretical.  I'm being empirical.  

I get that it SHOULDN'T pen.   But it did.  Indeed, given the layout of armor on this tank, I should have MORE room for variation in my angle and still successfully bounce.  

Regardless of what the numbers and pictures say, what I'm saying is that when I'm driving my E 100, and angled well, I bounce consistently.  When I was driving the Maus, and angled just as well for the tank itself, I was penned more than I expected to be, GIVEN THE NUMBERS AND LAYOUTS THOSE PICTURES REPRESENT.  I'm not right or wrong.  I was penned, and I was angled well.  Your skepticism is beside the point.  Try it yourself on the CT.  

I'm not trying to diss the Maus or make any other claim except that I have found it to be more unreliable when side-scraping than I expected it to be.  You asked.  I answered.  Now you're rejecting my answer.  That's fine.  But why ask?

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Only had time to play one game with the new VK last night, and i had read about its soft mantlet, but was still surprised to be penned by normal AP in its turret front.

Any other have some feedback on it ?

 

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I've not played the thing, but the area below the mantlet (which would be the flatest part frontally) is hidden by the rest of the tank when viewed head on.  The turret can become very easy to pen in certain areas though once its angled some and the enemy can get shots in on the 160mm thick zones.  That looks to me to be the areas to watch out for.  That, and certain areas on the mantlet.

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On 03/02/2017 at 6:17 PM, leggasiini said:

Yea IS-7 could use some love now, its probably the worst tier 10 HT after the changes, but nothing significant as the tank is not really bad at all. Just buff the gun handling and accuracy, or DPM, or buff terrain resists. Knowing WG though they will go and buff DPM, gun handling AND mobility LUL

IS-4 is sorta fine tbh, just buff the bloom a bit 

WG in a nutshell… When they buff they make a load of changes when they nerf the kill the tank. Just like the grille 15, it just needed a nerf to the mobility don’t kill the Gun AND the mobility…

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13 hours ago, Griphos said:

Actually, the picture "proves" nothing in any way.  They are representations of armor layouts.  You do realize that those pictures are not what is used by the game engine to decide whether a shell pens you or not, right?  You're being theoretical.  I'm being empirical.  

I get that it SHOULDN'T pen.   But it did.  Indeed, given the layout of armor on this tank, I should have MORE room for variation in my angle and still successfully bounce.  

Regardless of what the numbers and pictures say, what I'm saying is that when I'm driving my E 100, and angled well, I bounce consistently.  When I was driving the Maus, and angled just as well for the tank itself, I was penned more than I expected to be, GIVEN THE NUMBERS AND LAYOUTS THOSE PICTURES REPRESENT.  I'm not right or wrong.  I was penned, and I was angled well.  Your skepticism is beside the point.  Try it yourself on the CT.  

I'm not trying to diss the Maus or make any other claim except that I have found it to be more unreliable when side-scraping than I expected it to be.  You asked.  I answered.  Now you're rejecting my answer.  That's fine.  But why ask?

You are not being empirical you are using anecdotal experience and personal opinion. It's a big difference. Using that logic the earth is flat. 

Also those are what is used by the game engine. The colors represent the % chance of a given shell penning the tank. Red = no pen unless super duper lucky. If it DID pen it either happens VERY rarely or you did not angle perfectly, you made a mistake. My skepticism is one but the armor layout is what you have in the Game, It's not theory. Also look at Rexxies Maus experiment. Maus has armor, it works really ,really good. 

I'm not rejecting your answer. I'm simply saying you are probably making tiny mistakes that cause the pens. I did the same in my is4. Thought I was angling perfectly. I wasn't. Learned the tank. I am not getting penned anymore. 

1 hour ago, Clogman said:

Thanks for the info, this sounds a bit like an oversight ?

Same oversight like the way the e5 pre nerf still has either a shot trap or an armor hole since I get penned from time to time next to the gun. Is3 has a shot trap too if a low tank shoots you. If it still bounces a high % it's ok

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Okay, you win.  I'm sorry I tried to be helpful and answer your question.  The armor is freaking fantastic.  Nothing pens it, unless you're a moron like me, and make "tiny" mistakes.  

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