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Elimination: Tier 8 Premiums - Patriot's Providence (COMPLETE)

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21 hours ago, Megumin said:

You can't really find any 90/100mm gun at the same tier with worse gun handling. Come on

Shit gun with mediocre pen= no credibility

All it really left are the turret armor and pref MM :babyrage:

oh please type 59 solos 70%WR and so does KV-5 for players that aren't trash, i don't see how bad gun handling is such a huge drawback when people actually pull 2,7k+ dpgs with it alongside it? :^) m4a1rev and sta2 and even wz-111 for a pref comparison

 

srynotsry but how good a tank is is not based on how much credits it makes, it's about how well it performs just because people are poor plebs doesnt mean the tank is any worse because of it

 

 

M4A1 Revalorisé: 23

AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 33

Löwe: 32

T26E5 (Patriot): 34

Skorpion G: 23

STA-2: 26 - out of all tanks left this one is the one i felt had the least impact to actually influence the game, while the gun handling and gold pen is really nice, literally everything else about the tank is meh enough to make it a completely useless tank for pushes and the Leo PTA of tier 8, you're great as a support but the second you actually need to do something but the complete lack of armour and alpha makes it absolutely useless if you can't redline or poke ridges, the m4a1 has good enough alpha to shave important HP off instantly and the M46 KR actually has some turret armour now to work with along with the typical american bloom that makes this tank the least useful tank of the bunch when it comes to winning for me

M46 KR: 23 

112: 25 

Pz. 58 Mutz: 19

WZ-111: 13

T26E4: 8

KV-5: 9 - this tank is by far the best tank for stomping a team, 3 of these even of the most open maps will steamroll everything, rolling 100%WR platoons while doing memes and being completely braindead has never been so easy, special MM, broken as fuck DPM, a good chunk of HP and armour that actually works no matter what's shooting at you, it's also has a lot of character and is a joy to play

Type 59: 8

 

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That the STA and Mutz are here above 20, while the Super P, KV-5 and Hype 59 are in single digits disgusts me. Y'alls are medium padder trash!

Where did the Indien and tech tree STA get eliminated?

Farmer's medium trashola!!!!!!

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20 minutes ago, Kolni said:

oh please type 59 solos 70%WR and so does KV-5 for players that aren't trash, i don't see how bad gun handling is such a huge drawback when people actually pull 2,7k+ dpgs with it alongside it? :^) m4a1rev and sta2 and even wz-111 for a pref comparison

 

srynotsry but how good a tank is is not based on how much credits it makes, it's about how well it performs just because people are poor plebs doesnt mean the tank is any worse because of it

 

 

M4A1 Revalorisé: 23

AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 33

Löwe: 32

T26E5 (Patriot): 34

Skorpion G: 23

STA-2: 26 - out of all tanks left this one is the one i felt had the least impact to actually influence the game, while the gun handling and gold pen is really nice, literally everything else about the tank is meh enough to make it a completely useless tank for pushes and the Leo PTA of tier 8, you're great as a support but the second you actually need to do something but the complete lack of armour and alpha makes it absolutely useless if you can't redline or poke ridges, the m4a1 has good enough alpha to shave important HP off instantly and the M46 KR actually has some turret armour now to work with along with the typical american bloom that makes this tank the least useful tank of the bunch when it comes to winning for me

M46 KR: 23 

112: 25 

Pz. 58 Mutz: 19

WZ-111: 13

T26E4: 8

KV-5: 9 - this tank is by far the best tank for stomping a team, 3 of these even of the most open maps will steamroll everything, rolling 100%WR platoons while doing memes and being completely braindead has never been so easy, special MM, broken as fuck DPM, a good chunk of HP and armour that actually works no matter what's shooting at you, it's also has a lot of character and is a joy to play

Type 59: 8

 

recheck value pls...!

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M4A1 Revalorisé: 23

AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 33

Löwe: 32

T26E5 (Patriot): 34

Skorpion G: 23

STA-2: 26

M46 KR: 23 

112: 25 

Pz. 58 Mutz: 19

WZ-111: 13 - 3 = 10 Looks like just a shittier 112

T26E4: 8

KV-5: 5 + 1 = 6 Makes me wetter than a teenage girl at a Maroon 5 concert

Type 59: 8

(KV-5 should've been at 5, not 9)

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22 minutes ago, CraBeatOff said:

That the STA and Mutz are here above 20, while the Super P, KV-5 and Hype 59 are in single digits disgusts me. Y'alls are medium padder trash!

Wut? :P

Honestly, I think an argument can be made for not even including the Type 59 in this comparison, since it basically isn't actually available to anyone who doesn't already have one.  Plus, it's a medium tank, so you're padder trash if you play it. ;)

I respect your opinion a great deal here, @CraBeatOff, and I enjoy and play heavy tanks quite a bit, but I think you over-state the case for these tanks.  The KV-5 is a big HP pool, but also has easily-identified and penetrated weakspots that, at this point, everybody knows about.  It also has the worst AP penetration values of any pref MM heavy.  I don't think this makes it a stretch to say it's less useful than others.  That extremely good players (such as yourself) can leverage it well isn't necessarily representative of how it will be to play for even well-above-average players.  Similarly, the Super P is slow and (like the KV-5) has obvious weakspots that everyone knows, and that somewhat negates the value of its armor.  The AP buff helped it, but it's still a fat, slow medium with average-for-tier alpha.

The question then becomes - would you rather play a medium tank that is mobile and has good AP penetration (meaning you can shoot normal rounds, make money, and aren't screwed if your flank collapses), or would you rather play a somewhat cumbersome pref MM tank that may make you fire quite a lot of premium ammunition, has "armor" that everyone knows how to shoot around/through, and can't get away if the drooling retards around you act like the drooling retards they are?  I don't think it's per se unreasonable that the answer (for most people) is the medium tank.

I'd be more concerned if stuff like the Lowe, T26E5, and AMX M4 49 were in single digits, but they aren't.  Those are all tanks that don't rely on helpful MM to get their job done.

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27 minutes ago, _Juris said:

Wut? :P

Honestly, I think an argument can be made for not even including the Type 59 in this comparison, since it basically isn't actually available to anyone who doesn't already have one.  Plus, it's a medium tank, so you're padder trash if you play it. ;)

I respect your opinion a great deal here, @CraBeatOff, and I enjoy and play heavy tanks quite a bit, but I think you over-state the case for these tanks.  The KV-5 is a big HP pool, but also has easily-identified and penetrated weakspots that, at this point, everybody knows about.  It also has the worst AP penetration values of any pref MM heavy.  I don't think this makes it a stretch to say it's less useful than others.  That extremely good players (such as yourself) can leverage it well isn't necessarily representative of how it will be to play for even well-above-average players.  Similarly, the Super P is slow and (like the KV-5) has obvious weakspots that everyone knows, and that somewhat negates the value of its armor.  The AP buff helped it, but it's still a fat, slow medium with average-for-tier alpha.

The question then becomes - would you rather play a medium tank that is mobile and has good AP penetration (meaning you can shoot normal rounds, make money, and aren't screwed if your flank collapses), or would you rather play a somewhat cumbersome pref MM tank that may make you fire quite a lot of premium ammunition, has "armor" that everyone knows how to shoot around/through, and can't get away if the drooling retards around you act like the drooling retards they are?  I don't think it's per se unreasonable that the answer (for most people) is the medium tank.

I'd be more concerned if stuff like the Lowe, T26E5, and AMX M4 49 were in single digits, but they aren't.  Those are all tanks that don't rely on helpful MM to get their job done.

There was a good dose of irony in there, as both the SP and 59 are mediums and are great padders. Its just that those soft reg 8 MTs are awful at winning games, while the beefy champions are amazing at it. 

To directly answer your question I know what people in general prefer, and I wish they would learn to carry in HTs! I don't have to choose though, since I nabbed a Type during last years Grand Final fantasy pick em :-)

I never found profit margins to be a problem a when picking ammo, especially since both the KV-5 and SP carry so much. For every game that might show a -5k loss from firing APCR at 9 and still losing, there's another where you net 80k+, with most in between. Same for the armor - they aren't the best (and the Liberte and Patriot outclass for sure), but they have enough to hold in key positions, which is what wins games.

I agree with your scenario for why people like mediums, I just think folks over rate their effectiveness in the MTs because the numbers come back slightly purpler.

20 minutes ago, Kolni said:

IDvWvM4.jpg?1

reply again when you have any other T8 SMM tank that can do this in the entire game pls :doge: 

I've seen Carbon return similar in the WZ-111...but I get your point. I don't even think I'm any good in the KV-5 and I crack NA top 50. It's just so strong.

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1 hour ago, Kolni said:

oh please type 59 solos 70%WR and so does KV-5 for players that aren't trash, i don't see how bad gun handling is such a huge drawback when people actually pull 2,7k+ dpgs with it alongside it? :^) m4a1rev and sta2 and even wz-111 for a pref comparison

 

srynotsry but how good a tank is is not based on how much credits it makes, it's about how well it performs just because people are poor plebs doesnt mean the tank is any worse because of it

:jebaited:

I'd rather spam gold with any braindead tank that is actually gud to "make it performs well". Who'df would actually farm credits in pubs if he has the credits from the bundle and clan credit booster all day long.:MingLee: 

I mean literally this is a T8 premium elimination, not T8 elimination.

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5 minutes ago, CraBeatOff said:

There was a good dose of irony in there, as both the SP and 59 are mediums and are great padders. Its just that those soft reg 8 MTs are awful at winning games, while the beefy champions are amazing at it. 

To directly answer your question I know what people in general prefer, and I wish they would learn to carry in HTs! I don't have to choose though, since I nabbed a Type during last years Grand Final fantasy pick em :-)

I never found profit margins to be a problem a when picking ammo, especially since both the KV-5 and SP carry so much. For every game that might show a -5k loss from firing APCR at 9 and still losing, there's another where you net 80k+, with most in between. Same for the armor - they aren't the best (and the Liberte and Patriot outclass for sure), but they have enough to hold in key positions, which is what wins games.

I agree with your scenario for why people like mediums, I just think folks over rate their effectiveness in the MTs because the numbers come back slightly purpler.

I've seen Carbon return similar in the WZ-111...but I get your point. I don't even think I'm any good in the KV-5 and I crack NA top 50. It's just so strong.

I figured, and that's fair enough.  I agree that those can be really great carry tanks (although i'm still skeptical that the KV-5 is really THAT good in general - vbaddict data doesn't support that it's some amazing carry vehicle, though that data would suggest that the WZ-111 and 112 are).  I guess what i'm saying is that there's a tradeoff here on pure unadulterated winrate and fun while grinding credits, and that (having played the carry heavies) I can't say that it's weird to me that a lot of folks would prefer the medium playstyle, even if it does come at some expense of absolute (though not necessarily relative) winrate.

Maybe it's just the time of day I end up playing or whatever, but I hardly ever bring out my pref MM tanks because it feels like they just get dumped into tier 9 matches where they're mostly fighting an uphill battle.  I'd rather be a Lowe in a tier 10 game than a KV-5 in a tier 9 game, I guess...

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M4A1 Revalasdasaddfds: 23

AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 33

Löwe: 32

T26E5 (Patriot): 34

Skorpion G: 23

STA-2: 26 

M46 KR: 23 

112: 25 

Pz. 58 Mutz: 19

WZ-111: 10

T26E4: 8 - 3 = 5. Worst one left, its slow, other than APCR the gun is quite poor all around and it has no side armor aswell. armor is strong but not reliable enough to make up for that stuff

KV-5: 6 + 1 = 7. RASHA SHALL NOT COLLAPSE

Type 59: 8

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M4A1 Revalasdasaddfds: 23-3=20 - to remove any doubt. I played it. okay, gun handling buff was nice. gun depression was nice as well. but its still huge, slow, and a fucking tier 5 platform at tier 8. the new improved gun does not redeem the fact its on a terribad platform.

AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 33+1=34 I haven't played any of these tanks enough to make a decision, (or at all) but this one is the most annoying to fight, so ill give it the +1

Löwe: 32

T26E5 (Patriot): 34

Skorpion G: 23

STA-2: 26 

M46 KR: 23 

112: 25 

Pz. 58 Mutz: 19

WZ-111: 10

T26E4: 5

KV-5: 7

Type 59: 8

 

Rev is still shit. would still rather play any of these other remaining tanks. would still rather be in an FCM. would rather be in a CDC frankly, especially in a tier 10 game.

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10 hours ago, Megumin said:

:jebaited:

I'd rather spam gold with any braindead tank that is actually gud to "make it performs well". Who'df would actually farm credits in pubs if he has the credits from the bundle and clan credit booster all day long.:MingLee: 

I mean literally this is a T8 premium elimination, not T8 elimination.

and i'm telling you credit income doesn't affect the outcome of battles, performance does

i play entirely different tanks depending on if i want to grind credits or if i want to win and that's what i think many people here fail to consider

 

the amount of credits you gain/lose is a factor that only applies outside of the match, not in them

 

the type59 is among the top credit earners across the board as well, i fail to see how a tank that is reliably winning games and also making credits (a lot of them as well) falls into your category at all, especially since you take credits into consideration. sure the gun is a bit annoying and there's a low ammo count, but there's no other t8smm tank in the game with that type of flexibility when it comes to not getting shafted by maps or lineups

 

i'm also very surprised t8smm tanks aren't in the lead they should be in, the fact that you only fight tier9s makes them so much more viable and by far better at winning, sure the patriot and liberte are downright broken and they might even be better at it despite a T10MM possibility, but stuff like the STA-2, M4A1 Rev and Mutz are guaranteed worse at winning despite perhaps being better tanks compared in a 1v1 against a type

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M4A1 Ravioli: 20
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 34
Löwe: 32
T26E5 (Patriot): 34 + 1 = 35 : :trump: :trump: :trump:
Skorpion G: 23 - 3 = 20 : Gun is nice and hits hard, but its a fucking camo sniper TD in the corridor meta. It also doesn't help that it's fragile as fuck. At least the Ravioli's 105mm is comfy.
STA-2: 26 
M46 KR: 23 
112: 25 
Pz. 58 Mutz: 19

WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 5
KV-5: 7
Type 59: 8

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M4A1 Revalorisé: 20
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 34
Löwe: 32
T26E5 (Patriot): 35
Skorpion G: 20
STA-2: 26 - 3 = 23, splitting my downvotes between all the paper 240 alpha tier 8 normal MM tanks now, you all suck at actually doing stuff
M46 KR: 23 
112: 25 
Pz. 58 Mutz: 19

WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 5
KV-5: 7 + 1 = 8, short of the Type 59, I don't think there's another tank on this list that gives less of a shit about MM, unless it's literally you vs a team of VKBs, tier 9 TDs and 4 arty, and even then it's workable
Type 59: 8

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M4A1 Revalorisé: 20
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 34
Löwe: 32
T26E5 (Patriot): 35
Skorpion G: 20
STA-2: 23
M46 KR: 23 
112: 25 
Pz. 58 Mutz: 19-3 = 16 This is a whole lot of nothing great.
WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 5
KV-5: 8+1 = 9 Definitely doesn't deserve to leave yet
Type 59: 8

The Mutz is still here? It's a super generic tier 8 medium tank. And everyone knows tier 8 mediums are really good right?

KV-5 is great for winning. It's a billy club....go forth and bludgeon your opponents to death! A large HP pool, enough useful armor to bounce plenty of shots, and the DPM to crush almost everything. In world of corridors map design, the KV-5 is a boss. Pro tip for minimizing weak spots: turn hull at 45° to bad guy and press WSWSWSWSWSWSWSWSWSWS. Interestingly, this is one of the few premiums I can maintain 70% win rate in even without having amazing DPG (2350). Turns out there are other ways to win games besides doing damage!

Super Pershing is also getting unfairly dumped on. Pref MM, auto pen gold round, and great armor at medium+ ranges is a winning combination. Bring soda, press 2 at the start of the battle, troll baddies!

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13 hours ago, Kolni said:

IDvWvM4.jpg?1

reply again when you have any other T8 SMM tank that can do this in the entire game pls :doge: 

Just playing the devil's advocate here, but there is this guy on NA with 3k in the SP and FCM (supposedly carbonward? everyone is carbonward? I don't really follow these things but that guy gets around :doge: )

3AAh42z.jpg

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M4A1 Revalorisé: 17 - Buffs helped it, but it's still a normal MM tier 8 medium tank with no armor and a kind of trashy premium round.  It's not terrible, but it's probably the weakest tank left on the list.
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 34
Löwe: 32
T26E5 (Patriot): 35
Skorpion G: 20
STA-2: 23
M46 KR: 23 

112: 26 - Reliable armor that responds well to angling, no glaring and ridiculously well-known weak spots, 250 HEAT is sufficient to at least threaten all the boxy tanks, plus pref MM.  If you want to make credits and win games, this is a seriously good way to do it.
Pz. 58 Mutz: 16
WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 5
KV-5: 9
Type 59: 8

@Kolni, @dualmaster333, and @CraBeatOff, I continue to be completely mystified by the KV-5.  I just watched a completely mediocre streamer do 3k in it.  When I see one, unless i'm in a tier 6 medium or some really terrible tank, I always think "oh look, an XP/HP pinata I can abuse" and I have yet to be wrong about that.  Maybe it just has a really weird and high skill ceiling?  Maybe I just have bad luck with MM when I play pref MM tanks?  I have no idea.  The frontal armor is just littered with weaknesses.  Letting alone the radio operator R2D2 and the cupolas, the entire turret face is a weak spot except for the mantlet (<185mm effective).  A T32 can punch through that with AP, let alone the tier 8 heavies with guns that don't suck.  Even vbaddict says it only barely wins more than the IS-6, which is probably owned by every tomato on earth so it probably has its winrate depressed by that.

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M4A1 Revalorisé: 17
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 35 Still the best til you're gone
Löwe: 32
T26E5 (Patriot): 35
Skorpion G: 20
STA-2: 23
M46 KR: 23 
112: 26
Pz. 58 Mutz: 16
WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 5
KV-5: 6 : I too see an EXP pinata when I see this on the battle field. No fear of it at all. I feel that its a high ceiling low floor tank, and while some certainly more than excel and break barriers, theres other premiums in this current list which are better. I see it much like a 215B, in that pubbies are bad and not to be feared, but this tank in the hands of someone at the top of the game is something to behold. That said, still the worst remaining
Type 59: 8

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40 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

KV-5: 6 : I too see an EXP pinata when I see this on the battle field. No fear of it at all. I feel that its a high ceiling low floor tank, and while some certainly more than excel and break barriers, theres other premiums in this current list which are better. I see it much like a 215B, in that pubbies are bad and not to be feared, but this tank in the hands of someone at the top of the game is something to behold. That said, still the worst remaining

High ceiling low floor means great potential and easy to play, I think you meant it the other way around?

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M4A1 Revalorisé: 17
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 36 it's just my favorite tank to play right now, probably because OP
Löwe: 32
T26E5 (Patriot): 35
Skorpion G: 20
STA-2: 23
M46 KR: 23 
112: 26
Pz. 58 Mutz: 16
WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 5
KV-5: 3 : no new comments
Type 59: 8

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M4A1 Revalorisé: 17
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 36
T26E5 (Patriot): 35
Skorpion G: 20
STA-2: 23
M46 KR: 23 
112: 26
Pz. 58 Mutz: 16
WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 5 +1 = 6  Still strong, one of the most affordable premiums out there, and one of the most forgiving.  Very capable in skilled hands, especially when platooned and you feel like yoloing a flank.  I use to hate this tank (my first premium), but I've drunk the @canadiantrex kool-aid and love it now.
KV-5: 3 - 3 = 0  Lulzy ramming fun belongs in training rooms, not randoms.  Go play Wolf Life, KV-5.
Type 59: 8

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M4A1 Revalorisé: 17
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 36
Löwe: 32 + 1 = 33 
T26E5 (Patriot): 35
Skorpion G: 20
STA-2: 23
M46 KR: 23 
112: 26
Pz. 58 Mutz: 16-3 = 13 Tier 8 mediums are meh to play in pubs, and of the fire remaining, this is the most meh. Type is trash but at least it has pref, and the M46KR and STA2 both seem to outclass this machine, and the Rev is certainly unique.
WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 6
KV-5: 0 : RIP my first premium tank, you were a mistake I will regret until I can trade you in towards a Lowe. The dumbest idea ever scribbled down on a napkin by a drunk soviet engineer. Power creeped, inflexible, every orange knows how to kill you, shit at making credits, and too situational for me,  I never even play mine anymore. So the new Flavor of the Month fascination with it continues to boggle me, and no amount of praises sung for it will ever change my mind.
Type 59: 8

rip my downvote, ninja'd by errants =[[[[ vote shifted to Mutz

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@Whole_Nutjob , already killed your KV-5, and SPersh is at 6... ^_^

Quote

M4A1 Revalorisé: 17
AMX M4 49 (Liberté): 36
Löwe: 33 
T26E5 (Patriot): 35
Skorpion G: 20
STA-2: 23
M46 KR: 23 
112: 26
Pz. 58 Mutz: 13
WZ-111: 10
T26E4: 6
Type 59: 8

 
 

Corrected totals.

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