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leggasiini

Type 5 Heavy ACTUAL appreciation thread

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3 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Not really. Your ponts are as valid as the idea to call someone libtard mate.

I didn't call you that.... I stated your attitude makes you appear intolerant... like a Lib-tard. I.e. descriptive or analogous with regard to your attitude and lecturing tone which presents opinion as fact. You may not be of that ilk in which case you can self reflect on how you were perceived. "Here you go again" doesn't carry a constructive tone.... so feel free to put your victim card away;  assumptions made about validity of my input and your condescending tone don't go well with it - unless you do want to fit the image of the regressive Left :).

Others here may know how to play well and I'm certain some are outstanding and know what change will result in what outcome. I don't consider one to directly correlate with the other. Nor do I consider people downrating my comment to be representative of "everyone" agreeing with you.

 

I'll boil down my points to simply say that (IMO) MT players will hurt more from this than HT players in relative terms due to the lower impact HE will have on HT c.f with MT's. Tactics will still have to change but for many HT's there has been a requirement for an extended time to not rely on armour much due to the prevalence and effectiveness of premium ammo.

 

In the triad of armour / firepower / mobility  HT's have seen sub-par effectiveness of their armour for a while. Mobility and Firepower have been key to the Meta (hence such popularity of tanks with  good mobility) as I see it and read of it (and yes, watch on streams) for the Asia server. HE dominance will still leave HT's in this position..... but in relative terms MT's are going to be more severely effected I think. Not just the HE damage but module damage and crew deaths.

 

If you don't get my train of thought don't worry about it..... doesn't mean I am wrong, nor that we disagree about the poor judgement in adding this to the game in this way. Perhaps English is your second language in which case I apologise for the communication gap between us, and the stab at your messages.....

Once the game settles in and we see less of these around it will hopefully be more manageable. I expect it to be ridiculous on the server for a while with multiple super heavies.

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3 hours ago, Quasinerdo said:

I didn't call you that.... I stated your attitude makes you appear intolerant... like a Lib-tard. I.e. descriptive or analogous with regard to your attitude and lecturing tone which presents opinion as fact. You may not be of that ilk in which case you can self reflect on how you were perceived. "Here you go again" doesn't carry a constructive tone.... so feel free to put your victim card away;  assumptions made about validity of my input and your condescending tone don't go well with it - unless you do want to fit the image of the regressive Left :).

Others here may know how to play well and I'm certain some are outstanding and know what change will result in what outcome. I don't consider one to directly correlate with the other. Nor do I consider people downrating my comment to be representative of "everyone" agreeing with you.

 

I'll boil down my points to simply say that (IMO) MT players will hurt more from this than HT players in relative terms due to the lower impact HE will have on HT c.f with MT's. Tactics will still have to change but for many HT's there has been a requirement for an extended time to not rely on armour much due to the prevalence and effectiveness of premium ammo.

 

In the triad of armour / firepower / mobility  HT's have seen sub-par effectiveness of their armour for a while. Mobility and Firepower have been key to the Meta (hence such popularity of tanks with  good mobility) as I see it and read of it (and yes, watch on streams) for the Asia server. HE dominance will still leave HT's in this position..... but in relative terms MT's are going to be more severely effected I think. Not just the HE damage but module damage and crew deaths.

 

If you don't get my train of thought don't worry about it..... doesn't mean I am wrong, nor that we disagree about the poor judgement in adding this to the game in this way. Perhaps English is your second language in which case I apologise for the communication gap between us, and the stab at your messages.....

Once the game settles in and we see less of these around it will hopefully be more manageable. I expect it to be ridiculous on the server for a while with multiple super heavies.

You still used the term. This disqualifies you from the discussion. Sorry mate TL:DR

Also mate you are wrong about heavies. This probably comes from the common misconception coming from judging the tanks on how much damage they do. Heavies will always do less since they cant farm cleanup damage like the meds can. 

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17 hours ago, hazzgar said:

You still used the term. This disqualifies you from the discussion. Sorry mate TL:DR

Also mate you are wrong about heavies. This probably comes from the common misconception coming from judging the tanks on how much damage they do. Heavies will always do less since they cant farm cleanup damage like the meds can. 

I mean if you tldr his comment this sort of disqualifies you from the discussion as well since ......in the first place there's no response and no discussion.

Responding to his thoughts about the meta: it's quite the opposite. MTs are not the meta currently because they are shafted by map design and armor changes benefitting heavies. Its been heavy meta in the high tiers for some time now and it's MTs not HT's, which rely on not being shot.

 Now, the maps have been corridor-y since the great TD patch of 9.6 irrc. The meds benefited for a while, but now the map design is such that engagements are linear - so you need good frontal or turret armour or extremely good guns so you can deal damage without being evaporated. As this happened, you can see how fast meds became less favoured - Leo 1, CDC to name a few, It's because of map design have heavies become so strong. When you think of it, something like the buffed E5 probably wouldnt even be that strong when the TD meta was in full swing. It's this combination of corridor maps and TDs being nerfed that the meta came to favour heavy tanks with strong frontal armour. 

They don't have to have all round armor - as the E5 shows. You just need slabs of frontal armour. Slabs. The resurgence of fast turreted TDs like the Skorpion and the Grille didn't happen because of the meta shifted - it happened in spite of the meta - because turreted TDs were one of thew tds that had enough flexibility to stay relevant.

The way I see it, heavies have been the meta for a while now, and the Type 5 changes affect heavies the most. The reason being that meds actually still have some camo, better at fighting at range, and smaller profiles in general so that the derp guns will be very very unreliable against them, picture a Type 5 trying to snapshot a cheeky hulldown E50M. On the other hand, most heavies are not mobile enough to stay at range, and their guns are not always good enough to nail and pen Type 5s even with HEAT. In other words, heavies are hit worse because they have to fight on the Typezilla's terms more of the time, unlike a med that can actually dictate how an engagement goes.

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I'm easily getting 3K or even 4K damage games in my Type 4 since the new gun.

 

Oh a hull down ST-I? Shoot an HE on the turret roof and do 600 dmg.

 

Maus? Shoot under the turret cheeks to splash the top of the hull.

 

The gold HE is too much. Nerf or remove.

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6 hours ago, UnusualMedic said:

The gold HE is too much. Nerf or remove.

wait about 1.5 years...like e5...

with grille they were faster...8 months or so...

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On ‎28‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 7:13 PM, lavawing said:

I mean if you tldr his comment this sort of disqualifies you from the discussion as well since ......in the first place there's no response and no discussion.

Responding to his thoughts about the meta: it's quite the opposite. MTs are not the meta currently because they are shafted by map design and armor changes benefitting heavies. Its been heavy meta in the high tiers for some time now and it's MTs not HT's, which rely on not being shot.

 Now, the maps have been corridor-y since the great TD patch of 9.6 irrc. The meds benefited for a while, but now the map design is such that engagements are linear - so you need good frontal or turret armour or extremely good guns so you can deal damage without being evaporated. As this happened, you can see how fast meds became less favoured - Leo 1, CDC to name a few, It's because of map design have heavies become so strong. When you think of it, something like the buffed E5 probably wouldnt even be that strong when the TD meta was in full swing. It's this combination of corridor maps and TDs being nerfed that the meta came to favour heavy tanks with strong frontal armour. 

They don't have to have all round armor - as the E5 shows. You just need slabs of frontal armour. Slabs. The resurgence of fast turreted TDs like the Skorpion and the Grille didn't happen because of the meta shifted - it happened in spite of the meta - because turreted TDs were one of thew tds that had enough flexibility to stay relevant.

The way I see it, heavies have been the meta for a while now, and the Type 5 changes affect heavies the most. The reason being that meds actually still have some camo, better at fighting at range, and smaller profiles in general so that the derp guns will be very very unreliable against them, picture a Type 5 trying to snapshot a cheeky hulldown E50M. On the other hand, most heavies are not mobile enough to stay at range, and their guns are not always good enough to nail and pen Type 5s even with HEAT. In other words, heavies are hit worse because they have to fight on the Typezilla's terms more of the time, unlike a med that can actually dictate how an engagement goes.

I can follow your line of thought but I still see a high portion of teams as Meds in 9/10 as mobility is recognised as being so important. The HT's in abundance aren't (or weren't) the super heavies but those that had a reasonable degree of mobility. Most of them gave up armour for speed - and a few like the E5 still maintained great effectiveness due to the distribution of armour and angles. Of course my exposure is limited to what I see in matches and that's impacted by a limited sample size, MM randomness and populist play based on specials or new content. My observation is that while individually many HT may be strong it's the MT that tend to dominate and control matches .... that's where my opinion regarding their strong presence in the meta arises from. When I speak of Meta-game I am also limiting my context to the public matches.... not what tournie teams or CW teams may elect to use for a given scenario.

Having played the Japanese line for a while I am pretty comfortable hitting with the derp gun (can't comment on the new model for T 9 and 10 though). The impact hitting a medium is far more than a HT. Even in the O-Ho I routinely hit Tier 9 and 10 mediums for 700-900 damage and it's comparatively rare to hit a HT for over 300-400. The "cheeky E-50" you mention is actually how I see a lot of MT's playing.... using terrain and their low silhouette (well not the e50 in that regard :P) to mask their hull and rely on a bouncy turret (which can be at least as effective as some HT's) .... but the HE makes that approach much tougher and more dangerous.

 

In essence I have not been speaking of a "MT meta" - but a meta built around mobility and firepower rather than Armour. This patch has done more to bring the slower heavies back than other changes I have seen outside of efforts on the sandbox. Just have to play it out and see how it settles.... they may just end up a novelty or of limited value due to being so slow and therefore lacking the capability to reinforce on a map or fade back when a situation looks grim... I've already see n a few losses where a cap out occurred due to out of position HT's being unable to return to cap.  

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12 hours ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Needs Maus engine and a top speed of 40kmh IMO

lets not forget o-ho rof and -12 degree depression :P 

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10.5k damage, 10750 blocked, derp? not even once.

 

My purpose in life  is to get one of these and shit on pubbies all day, too bad I'll get bored along the way and go after the next FOTM tank instead, then it will be nerfed in 6 months time before I even get to play it.

 

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4 hours ago, Cronk said:

10.5k damage, 10750 blocked, derp? not even once.

 

My purpose in life  is to get one of these and shit on pubbies all day, too bad I'll get bored along the way and go after the next FOTM tank instead, then it will be nerfed in 6 months time before I even get to play it.

 

0/10 no derpgun.

Well, I guess its...interesting that he used the 14 cm, I guess. He makes the 14cm look like a viable choice which I am not sure it is. The 14 cm does have much better soft stats and frontal gun depression, but other than that the 15 cm is probably more reliable in damaging heavy targets. A type 5 with a 14 cm used to be a worse E-100, but perhaps that's no longer true with the armour changes.

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Speaking of E-100.

Remember when we made fun of this guy? It's like they made a new tank especially for him.

b0i2Egv.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, lavawing said:

0/10 no derpgun.

Well, I guess its...interesting that he used the 14 cm, I guess. He makes the 14cm look like a viable choice which I am not sure it is. The 14 cm does have much better soft stats and frontal gun depression, but other than that the 15 cm is probably more reliable in damaging heavy targets. A type 5 with a 14 cm used to be a worse E-100, but perhaps that's no longer true with the armour changes.

He could be grinding XP for derp gun, who knows.

Anyways, 14cm was shit and is still shit gun. Its even worse after 9.17.1 because of increased amount of Maus and Type 5 with their buffed armor. Maus can be penned from LFP with gold, but have fun if it sidescrapes (even no angle turret is not that reliable). Type 5? Lol your only hope is cupola lmao and Type 5 that hides cupola behind corner is pretty much borderline immune to 14cm Type 5. Have fun when it blasts you for 400 - 500 with gold HE while you wish RNG to give you even a chance to damage it.

One epic match doesnt prove anything; zap did have 9.9k dmg (or something) with Type 5 while ago when he was grinding marks for it.

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On 28.02.2017 at 10:13 AM, lavawing said:

I mean if you tldr his comment this sort of disqualifies you from the discussion as well since ......in the first place there's no response and no discussion.

Responding to his thoughts about the meta: it's quite the opposite. MTs are not the meta currently because they are shafted by map design and armor changes benefitting heavies. Its been heavy meta in the high tiers for some time now and it's MTs not HT's, which rely on not being shot.

 Now, the maps have been corridor-y since the great TD patch of 9.6 irrc. The meds benefited for a while, but now the map design is such that engagements are linear - so you need good frontal or turret armour or extremely good guns so you can deal damage without being evaporated. As this happened, you can see how fast meds became less favoured - Leo 1, CDC to name a few, It's because of map design have heavies become so strong. When you think of it, something like the buffed E5 probably wouldnt even be that strong when the TD meta was in full swing. It's this combination of corridor maps and TDs being nerfed that the meta came to favour heavy tanks with strong frontal armour. 

They don't have to have all round armor - as the E5 shows. You just need slabs of frontal armour. Slabs. The resurgence of fast turreted TDs like the Skorpion and the Grille didn't happen because of the meta shifted - it happened in spite of the meta - because turreted TDs were one of thew tds that had enough flexibility to stay relevant.

The way I see it, heavies have been the meta for a while now, and the Type 5 changes affect heavies the most. The reason being that meds actually still have some camo, better at fighting at range, and smaller profiles in general so that the derp guns will be very very unreliable against them, picture a Type 5 trying to snapshot a cheeky hulldown E50M. On the other hand, most heavies are not mobile enough to stay at range, and their guns are not always good enough to nail and pen Type 5s even with HEAT. In other words, heavies are hit worse because they have to fight on the Typezilla's terms more of the time, unlike a med that can actually dictate how an engagement goes.

Mate, he's a dick to people and a conspiracy theories. There is a reason you don't piss in the wind. 

3 hours ago, leggasiini said:

He could be grinding XP for derp gun, who knows.

Anyways, 14cm was shit and is still shit gun. Its even worse after 9.17.1 because of increased amount of Maus and Type 5 with their buffed armor. Maus can be penned from LFP with gold, but have fun if it sidescrapes (even no angle turret is not that reliable). Type 5? Lol your only hope is cupola lmao and Type 5 that hides cupola behind corner is pretty much borderline immune to 14cm Type 5. Have fun when it blasts you for 400 - 500 with gold HE while you wish RNG to give you even a chance to damage it.

One epic match doesnt prove anything; zap did have 9.9k dmg (or something) with Type 5 while ago when he was grinding marks for it.

This. Buffed Maus and Type5 mean the 14mm is shit except for special ocasions. Even the Maus prem ammo penetration is sometimes annoying in Maus vs Maus fights. 

Overal games in the new Maus are fun. It's better to avoid other Mice since they just take too damn long to kill. 

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For the last couple days I can't get a win in this thing. It doesn't matter if I deal 4k damage and block 4k damage, the other heavies on my flank will do 0 damage against a Maus and die quickly. 

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On 2/24/2017 at 8:43 AM, WorldConqueror said:

You really have something against Russians don't you

I am not racist if that is what you mean. I hate everyone equally.

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11 hours ago, Acumen said:

I am not racist if that is what you mean. I hate everyone equally.

Not exactly, just I remember you coming into a WGL stream and saying something about all the RNG and that Russians love RNG so no wonder they all play WoT, just seemed weirdly focused. idk maybe I'm missing the meme.

 

Anyway on the subject of the Type 5 it makes me even more nervous to take my Conqueror out because I just know that one day one of these things is going to full pen it for 1700 :eww:

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On 3/5/2017 at 9:10 PM, WorldConqueror said:

Not exactly, just I remember you coming into a WGL stream and saying something about all the RNG and that Russians love RNG so no wonder they all play WoT, just seemed weirdly focused. idk maybe I'm missing the meme.

 

Anyway on the subject of the Type 5 it makes me even more nervous to take my Conqueror out because I just know that one day one of these things is going to full pen it for 1700 :eww:

It was a reference to Russians being in the top 5 gambling nations but yeah kind of cryptic. I still hate them though. Like I hate everyone else.

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6 minutes ago, BashirTheTrainMaster said:

When face hugging Maus, trying to use the gun to block APCR to the copula doesn't seem to work. All shells pen without problem.

Gun no longer blocks AP/APCR. 

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6 minutes ago, MacusFlash said:

Gun no longer blocks AP/APCR. 

It doesnt stop them entirely, but it still counts as extra armor that can be really helpful, especially for type5 that relies on raw thickness

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Holy. And here I thought WG can't fuck this game up harder. Yes, yes they can!

Here's a new, brilliant business model:

1. take a shitter tank, overbuff it to extreme to make people jump on the FOTM wagon, then nerf it to shit and repeat with another underplayed line.

GENIOUS, eh? But wait, that's not all!

2. In addition to the above, include stupidly OP gold ammo and gold consumables that are pretty much a must to even make stuff work, so even the best players burn sick amount of silver per game.

Sounds gut? well, here's the final step:

3. Introduce stupidly overpowered + overpriced premtanks like Defender or Patriot so that people drool over them and stomp on regular tier 8 tanks while playing them, earning money for gold derp shells for type5 at the same time!

 

And everyone's happy. $$$$ flows right into SerB's pocket just like Vodka flows into his talkhole.

Great job WG, this time you've outdone yourself. Tiers 6-10 ruined. 6-7 meet defender/patriot/libtard (or was it liberte? :D) and get shat upon. 9 meets the new derpwagon and maus. I mean, I hated paying Type 61, and now I pictured myself facing derpwagon with it frontally in a all-out corridor map... sounds like so much FUN!

And to think there's still Sandbox coming to buff Type5 and Maus further and shit on meds. ^_____^

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12 hours ago, Yuri_Yslin said:

3. Introduce stupidly overpowered + overpriced premtanks like Defender or Patriot so that people drool over them and stomp on regular tier 8 tanks while playing them, earning money for gold derp shells for type5 at the same time!

Defender and Patriot are not overpriced at all. Especially the Patriot, it costed just 9,700 goold (€35.80). For instance, Löwe costs 12500, and IS-6 11800. IS-6 hardly earns any more money than a regular tank,  with all that gold you fire, and Löwe can not clean up and shells are not that cheap as on Patriot.

I see you are on the EU server, as me, so €35.80 will still be short to buy a tank from the best credit making category in this game - tier 8 heavy. 

And Patriot is the cream of the crop there - high base pen + low shell cost + speed make earnings plentiful, you can rack even the assist and cleanup dmg. For just a bit more :trump:than a tier 8 med.

Remember a time when 8,8 cm Pak 43 Jagdtiger and FCM were on top? not any more.

http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=0&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=creditsn&server=

They are overpowered, and most of your statement stands. Like T110E5 and Grille reign of fire...enjoy it while it lasts...same as with Maus now. 

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