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New arty system deadlier than ever?

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2 hours ago, FurryLionBalls said:

Back on subject @Fulcrous, wouldn't you say for Stun to be a meaningful mechanic it has to last longer than the reload time of the FV215b 183, Shitbarm and Jagdpanzer E100, and especially longer than the Pz VII/VK7201/E100/IS-4/IS-7/Type 5? If you're stunned between reloads and it affects literally nothing by the time you've finished reloading, what's the point in the mechanic?

In a game where being stunned means being left completely in the open, a 10s+ stun is way too long.

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Changes look...interesting, although it's clearly a sign that WG think they're onto a winner given they're forcing through this change rather quickly.

In once sense, I agree that one-shots are the biggest issue with arty, and removing, or mostly removing this from happening is a good thing. One of the options I had proposed to deal with arty is to dramatically reduce its damage per hit to levels similar to 'tier average' (e.g. 400 for tier 9/10, 300 for tier 8 etc.)

However, while some form of 'compensation' for the loss of damage makes sense, first impressions suggest that WG are perhaps giving a bit too much in return for the reduced alpha damage. Buffing aim time, bloom and rate of fire and the splash radius all at the same time? Plus adding in the de-buff mechanism? Yeah, that seems a bit like overkill. I think the debuff mechanic is fine given it's leading to the introduction of re-usable consumables, which I think is a good thing (despite the obvious fact that it will make premium version of the consumables immensely superior). Personally I think giving arty such huge boosts to its gun handling characteristics and making splash much bigger is too much.

One or the other would be fine because it would help to compensate for the reduced damage. Big issue currently with arty is if you miss you do basically zero damage with a long reload. A bigger splash radius that still does damage means a miss is less punishing as you can still contribute with every shot. Alternatively, buffing gun-handling and rate of fire makes up for the reduction in damage and makes each shot more likely to contribute. Also fine. But both together? It looks like arty will almost always be able to do *some* damage (plus stun) to a target. I think the bigger splash radius is the larger issue - to me it makes arty extremely powerful in the late game when tanks are low on hit-points, because you have a much, much bigger chance of hitting the target and the reduced damage is no longer an issue when the tank has been reduced to a one-shot anyway. If they need to compensate for reduction in alpha I reckon give arty the buffed rate of fire and gun handling but keep the splash radius the same as it currently is.

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Play a bunch of battles last night as arty on TS.

@sc

Couple of points : 

  • Holy shit M53/55 goes fast.. (i knew it went fast, just not this fast.. 50-55kph EA-SY)
  • Holy shit the splash radius ( you are going to have to find a MASSIVE building to hide now..) i can just decide to splash someone for stun pretty much when and where i want. Where you use to be arty safe now you won't be stun safe.
  • Holy shit the hit rate, I was probably at 90-95% of splash hit
  • With XWM this is going to be the biggest pain... Reload is too short and splash is too big, if an arty chooses to, they WILL hit me.. No more hiding behind a rock and even if they do no damage than that’s not a problem since they are helping their team by stunning the purple dude. This is probably the biggest grief for me obviously we are going to take way less damage but oh god half or a third of the game is going to be stunned… And the worse is that people won’t realize this until it hits live..
  • 3 arty on live server right now is a pain but in the next iteration with 3 arty how can I not be stunned half the time ? Because I personally don’t know.. Half of the position where you where arta safe won’t be anymore and moving target are going to be so fucking easy to hit with splash… The class as it is on TS should be limited to 1, tops.
  • Is this the death of JOAT ? Because i don't know you but there is NO way i'm going into battle without a "get off of me stun" card (Big medkit)
  • This is NOT a nerf to arty in any way shape or form... 
  • I think the answer to the title of this thread is : No, arty won't be deadlier. But for gods sake it will become just as much if not more of a pain to a lot of us. And a lot of people (good players here) who thinks this version is better, don't have all the parameter. And that parameter is XVM. The day that parameter gets added into the mix it will become a whole different ball game.
  • My point of view is that they seriously need to reduce stun time from direct hit and also scale down stun time when on the outer splash area or remove stun altogether and buff something else. 

 

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Talking about big medkit/repair, when does the test server counts as comsumed? When battle starts or when you use the first time? 

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1 hour ago, Tankthief said:

Talking about big medkit/repair, when does the test server counts as comsumed? When battle starts or when you use the first time? 

i guess when you use it the first time..

it should work like the removed speed governor, it stays there until it gets activated, then it gets replaced at the end of the battle.

I've noticed the large med kit reduces the stun duration by like 5%, so it's worth carrying even if you don't plan to use it.

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5 hours ago, Tankthief said:

Talking about big medkit/repair, when does the test server counts as comsumed? When battle starts or when you use the first time? 

first time

6 hours ago, DHP said:

Play a bunch of battles last night as arty on TS.

@sc

Couple of points : 

  • Holy shit M53/55 goes fast.. (i knew it went fast, just not this fast.. 50-55kph EA-SY)
  • Holy shit the splash radius ( you are going to have to find a MASSIVE building to hide now..) i can just decide to splash someone for stun pretty much when and where i want. Where you use to be arty safe now you won't be stun safe.
  • Holy shit the hit rate, I was probably at 90-95% of splash hit
  • With XWM this is going to be the biggest pain... Reload is too short and splash is too big, if an arty chooses to, they WILL hit me.. No more hiding behind a rock and even if they do no damage than that’s not a problem since they are helping their team by stunning the purple dude. This is probably the biggest grief for me obviously we are going to take way less damage but oh god half or a third of the game is going to be stunned… And the worse is that people won’t realize this until it hits live..
  • 3 arty on live server right now is a pain but in the next iteration with 3 arty how can I not be stunned half the time ? Because I personally don’t know.. Half of the position where you where arta safe won’t be anymore and moving target are going to be so fucking easy to hit with splash… The class as it is on TS should be limited to 1, tops.
  • Is this the death of JOAT ? Because i don't know you but there is NO way i'm going into battle without a "get off of me stun" card (Big medkit)
  • This is NOT a nerf to arty in any way shape or form... 
  • I think the answer to the title of this thread is : No, arty won't be deadlier. But for gods sake it will become just as much if not more of a pain to a lot of us. And a lot of people (good players here) who thinks this version is better, don't have all the parameter. And that parameter is XVM. The day that parameter gets added into the mix it will become a whole different ball game.
  • My point of view is that they seriously need to reduce stun time from direct hit and also scale down stun time when on the outer splash area or remove stun altogether and buff something else. 

 

M55 always went this fast and people are overestimating the actual effect of stun damage. At worst you'll have to be more careful during DPM fights. And that Bat 58 platoons are the new griefing mechanic.  It's a huge nerf to arty because of the way Comp will play now. It encourages shitters to hellcamp vs good teams and what's more is that you cant just bring 3 arties to CW/SH/What ever the fuck to dig out camps. In Pubs it's annoying, but I find the Tier 10 LTs much more annoying in that their VR almost always goes over the 520 VR cap to burn camo which is fucking cancer because tanks with 30-45% camo stationary or on the move even in bushes get lit up like a christmas tree. JOAT is dead. Arty will be more irritating, but much less utter rage inducing because you wont be 1 shot for getting the last % on your marks for example.The stun time up to 30s is actual cancer and needs to be made like 20s at max and then Prem Kits need to be nerfed or brought to a universal 75s with the small kit.

This patch is far from perfect, but atleast for pub play it's headed in the right direction imo. Because the new super heavy meta is actually now an indirect counter to arty due to things like Med kit recharge and even the Spall Liners changing making for a much more trade-off build like they do in WoWS (Hydro-Acoustic Search vs Radar or w/e).

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On 3/4/2017 at 5:08 AM, FurryLionBalls said:

You forget that the live server arty players are more stupid than you. They *easily can and will miss*.

Also, mongoloid is highly offensive. Either you're calling people from East/SE Asia and North American Arctic regions dumb because of genetic features usually peculiar to that region, or you're comparing these people with people with Downs' Syndrome (Trisomy 21), or you're just using a outdated and offensive word for people with Downs' Syndrome. I've got 2 friends with Down's Syndrome who play tanks, and they're both in top 10 clans according to the last 2 campaigns. If you want to call people shit, just call them morons/shit/tomato's, whatever.....I'm not even a major fan of calling people  shitters because I've got a spinal cord injury and it's only luck that I don't shit myself, but someone as comparatively bad as me still shits on plenty of pubbies.

The correlation isn't between mental or physical illness and being bad at tanks. It's between not caring about playing well and not getting better. When I lost the use of my hands for the first time, I played tanks til I got back to purple. And the second time, I went from black recents to purple. Now I'm struggling with recents because I need another 3 operations, or I'd be happily hitting 5k sessions every day, instead of just when I take a med that gives me Parkinsons' Disease symptoms (which don't go away).

TL:DR Remember that a lot of us are actually 'Downers, Cripples, Spastics and Autists', and we don't announce it through our play. Target your abuse to those who are actually the targets please.

Mongoloid

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at people complaining about getting perma-stunned

so what?

On live server you would be perma-dead, instead of perma-stunned

reasons arty is shit:

  1. one-shots
  2. crew deads
  3. dieiing in non-pen hits (played IS3, got hit for 750 by an t8 brit, and 2 mins later splashed by S-51 for 600, dead, GG

reasons arty tards play arty:

  1. grief people (all the noobs with AP)
  2. missions
  3. cant play tanks

who do you think will be more annoyed? the red in a maus, who takes 10 arty hits, get 4 hits in and did something, or the arty noob who shot said maus 10x and still didnt kill him?

ps: and this is just a start, once it hits live and stays for a few weeks, and doesnt somehow totally screw the game (peasant wars and ``stronk``holds dont count) WG wont revert it back, so if its ``too good``, WG will just nerf it, over and over, just like how gold ammo and tier 10 TDs got nerf after nerf (except those 2 changes where both objective stupid AND nerfing took way too long....)

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22 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:
  1. *non retaliable damage
  2. *any other aspect

I think you forgot something kind of, um, like, important?

Its the whole reason arty ruins the game, you spend the match cowering from an omnipresent sky fist. Even if it never manages to land a hit, you still spend the match in a game of twister with the cover that's available. 

That hasn't changed at all, in fact its role has been cemented, reinforced. You as the player have even less control, the degenerate has more, as well as a new mechanic with which to torture you. 

They made arty even worse

Fuck this game.

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7 hours ago, Strigonx said:

Mongoloid

Man, what's with the attitude and the hurtful words?
Did Genghis Khan fuck your wife or something?.. Although with that attitude in mind I reckon I should ask who *Didn't*... Other than you that is.

Get laid. Let some steam off.

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@GehakteMolen don't forget that arty will hit much more often now. And with the increase of splash there are a lot of arty safe spot that won't protect you from stun. Now i won't argue with you, arty will either go in the right direction or the wrong direction and you won't be able to see it before it hit live server and settle for a bit. Also if like you say arty ever need a nerf after being implemented don't forget this is WG and they will take a good year before doing any change. 

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My predictions:

When the patch hits everyone and his uncle will either play arty (resulting in huge queues) or try out new LTs. So the game will be pretty crazy with 3 arties and 3-6 LTs per team often.

After this settles down arty will have the usual 0-1, sometimes 2, rarely 3 distribution. The huge splash makes it very rewarding to shoot groups of enemies. 400 damage to 3-4 tanks each is better than 400 to a single target by far. So clustering up will really be bad if arty is present.

Apart from this the new LTs are fast, very stealthy and extremely dangerous for arty. And if you are now spotted you have basically zero chance because you will not onehit even a tier -2 scout any more and simply tracking him won't do much if he is already spotting you, especially because he gonna repair almost every time because rep cooldown of 60 secs is a pretty big deal.

So arty got worse for slowish tanks that cluster a lot, these should definetely consider spall liner. It probably got less dangerous for fast lone flankers because the average arty pubbie will aim at these less often if he has a nice cluster of heavies somewhere to shoot at.

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I can honestly say I will start to play arty if the changes are put on live server. For someone who hate the class and havent played a single battle as arty this is huge. 

 

Why?

1. Damage can be racked up and everything that I dont like (lol-rng, aimtime, reload) is getting huge buffs

2. Be a dick/pain in the ass. I will get nuked everytime I show myself on the front lines

3. XVM-focus all the blue/purple players who say this is a good change because they dont get focused on a testserver where "noob manual" (xvm) doesnt work

I will hunt you, I will find you and I will splash/stun you - again and again until WG removes this crap changes. 

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20 hours ago, _Assad said:

first time

M55 always went this fast and people are overestimating the actual effect of stun damage. At worst you'll have to be more careful during DPM fights. And that Bat 58 platoons are the new griefing mechanic.  It's a huge nerf to arty because of the way Comp will play now. It encourages shitters to hellcamp vs good teams and what's more is that you cant just bring 3 arties to CW/SH/What ever the fuck to dig out camps. In Pubs it's annoying, but I find the Tier 10 LTs much more annoying in that their VR almost always goes over the 520 VR cap to burn camo which is fucking cancer because tanks with 30-45% camo stationary or on the move even in bushes get lit up like a christmas tree. JOAT is dead. Arty will be more irritating, but much less utter rage inducing because you wont be 1 shot for getting the last % on your marks for example.The stun time up to 30s is actual cancer and needs to be made like 20s at max and then Prem Kits need to be nerfed or brought to a universal 75s with the small kit.

This patch is far from perfect, but atleast for pub play it's headed in the right direction imo. Because the new super heavy meta is actually now an indirect counter to arty due to things like Med kit recharge and even the Spall Liners changing making for a much more trade-off build like they do in WoWS (Hydro-Acoustic Search vs Radar or 

talking about VR and switching to LTs. My bulldog currently has 489 view, with food its 509. So my LT tier 10 can have 539 VR!! Thats utter high.

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I don't like this new iteration of arty now.  Basically if you're in a heavy tank on an open map you are even more of a target now.  Mediums aren't safe either as a shell has to land in the general vicinity of them, which stuns them and usually tracks them now.  

It's making me wonder though...............of all the players defending this new update, HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED ON THE TEST SERVER?  So far the only person I think defending this new patch who played on the test server is @SchnitzelTruck

Theorize all you want but it's nothing compared to actually trying out the new mechanic......

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35 minutes ago, Shifty_101st said:

 

It's making me wonder though...............of all the players defending this new update, HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED ON THE TEST SERVER?  So far the only person I think defending this new patch who played on the test server is @SchnitzelTruck

 

Im not necessarily defending it. I think stun mechanic is equally frustrating as getting all your HP nuked. I can almost keep heavies perms stunned with the obj261. Direct hits cause 20sec stun and the reload is 25 secs. The duration is pretty insane 

However being able to live and fight on through numerous direct arty hits is definitely an improvement.

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5 hours ago, Wessmen said:

I can honestly say I will start to play arty if the changes are put on live server. For someone who hate the class and havent played a single battle as arty this is huge. 

 

Why?

1. Damage can be racked up and everything that I dont like (lol-rng, aimtime, reload) is getting huge buffs

2. Be a dick/pain in the ass. I will get nuked everytime I show myself on the front lines

3. XVM-focus all the blue/purple players who say this is a good change because they dont get focused on a testserver where "noob manual" (xvm) doesnt work

I will hunt you, I will find you and I will splash/stun you - again and again until WG removes this crap changes. 

 

49 minutes ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Im not necessarily defending it. I think stun mechanic is equally frustrating as getting all your HP nuked. I can almost keep heavies perms stunned with the obj261. Direct hits cause 20sec stun and the reload is 25 secs. The duration is pretty insane 

However being able to live and fight on through numerous direct arty hits is definitely an improvement.

Yes, and then, you stunned a tank, big deal, with current arty he would be dead, and all you did was stunning / leeching of some hp

playing arty will be for the full braindead after these changes, who is gonna play a game, to click a maus 10x and deal each time 250-450 dmg?

With current arty you get the random one-shots and the RNG, adding ``fun`` (for many players) but with new arty?

What kind of gun is there is waiting half a year to shoot, and deal some dmg, and thats it, no one shots, no ammo racks, nothing, its even more boring as red-line camping in a TD, and on top of that probably also worse for winning...

unicum medium platoons will blitzkrieg any red-retard team thanks to medium and arty changes, and nothing the tards in the other team can do to stop them, i wont mind taking 1-2 arty hits, if they just deal 400 dmg, i also take IS7 shells in the face to f*** him up 30 sec later

2xE50 and T54 as unicum top tier platoon, with 2 stun arty and 3 bots as top tier?

COME AT ME BRO, IM GONNA RAPE YOU SO HARD YOU BEG TO DADDY SERB FOR HELP

ps: the ONLY reason i now loose, when top tier as good medium, is:

  • arty
  • our other tier 9 do nothing, making it 3 + fodder vs 6 + fodder
  • entire team of bots

WG removes arty as real treat (no risk of getting 1 shots), and fixes the bot part, 90% winratio should be possible...

ps ps: and if arty turns out OP, they gonna nerfrape it later anyway

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When will that nerfrape be @GehakteMolen?

Last I remember they left the E5 in its OP state for several patches before even considering touching it.  Maus and Type 5 were supposed to be nerfed this patch right? At least that's what I was told/read on reddit/that armored blog thingy.  Yet they remain untouched.

Honestly it just needs to be removed.  Even at this stage the arty is basically ruining any sort of heavy tank play.  I would rather take my chances on prok with 5 arty in an E100 in middle.  At least then I have a higher chance of dodging the shells and taking minimal splash than constantly being stunned till I die..........

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22 minutes ago, Shifty_101st said:

When will that nerfrape be @GehakteMolen?

Last I remember they left the E5 in its OP state for several patches before even considering touching it.  Maus and Type 5 were supposed to be nerfed this patch right? At least that's what I was told/read on reddit/that armored blog thingy.  Yet they remain untouched.

Honestly it just needs to be removed.  Even at this stage the arty is basically ruining any sort of heavy tank play.  I would rather take my chances on prok with 5 arty in an E100 in middle.  At least then I have a higher chance of dodging the shells and taking minimal splash than constantly being stunned till I die..........

How is type 5 OP?

i have it now, and its nothing special, its at best an IS4, good for winning and boring to play, i bet it wont be nerfed any time soon, for the simple reason its not OP

Most people (including wotlabs) are rly, rly bad at guestimating what will be OP and what not (see also kranvagen), TVP skoda the same, sure its annoying as fuck, but OP? not so much, same Grille was and it a sack of shit, dmg =/= tank good

Even the maus, a tank which is overbuffed, wont be buffed any time soon, since its still not that good

ps: and all those prem tanks are nothing compared to IS3, the IS3 still shits on any tier 8 prem, yet if all the ``powercreep people`` are correct, tier 8 would be dominated by them (even defender is not better as IS3, not even close...)

EDIT:

And i still think arty will be the same, it wont be half as ``op`` as many think it will be, and will turn out super mega boring, same i bet light tanks will be total shit, like how current tier 8 are pants on the head retarded bad (all of them)

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3 hours ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Im not necessarily defending it. I think stun mechanic is equally frustrating as getting all your HP nuked. I can almost keep heavies perms stunned with the obj261. Direct hits cause 20sec stun and the reload is 25 secs. The duration is pretty insane 

However being able to live and fight on through numerous direct arty hits is definitely an improvement.

I have to agree with schnitzel here because:

tumblr_onyexxo4b31th4op5o1_1280.jpg

This shit will just stop happening

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