Jump to content
ThomChen114

Charioteer - does it need a buff?

Recommended Posts

Seriously, what kind of sadistic, money-grubbing, prick comes up with grinds like this? :superserb:

Still working towards 45k XP for another useless 20-pdr. Watch out you ruski bastards, or I might hit you for 230 hp. Or not, cause 20-pdr.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Wanderjar I’ve always prioritised clutch and off road over smooth ride. Wondering if you think the Charioteer would be a worthy exception?

ps second 20-pdr does seem to hit stuff more often then not. But shit alpha is still shit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, sohojacques said:

@Wanderjar I’ve always prioritised clutch and off road over smooth ride. Wondering if you think the Charioteer would be a worthy exception?

ps second 20-pdr does seem to hit stuff more often then not. But shit alpha is still shit.

well, Clutch and ORD are maneuverability skills while Smooth is an accuracy one. If you were in the habit of shooting on the move in your Charioteer then it would be worth taking a hard look at but since you will only be mostly doing slower speed poking/bush humping it's a bit harder to evaluate.

To Answer your question, Clutch + ORD >SR,  I would actually say Smooth then ORD and then clutch
Because Clutch affects deg/sec, while ORD gives moving turn speed without slowing nearly as much
 
remember that ORD/Clutch improve Deg/sec of the tank which makes Accuracy WORSE FASTER (either sitting still or on the move) since Accuracy is a function of Deflection per second (I actually think they compute it .5 sec but whatever)


With the 105mm gun: (the only effective differences accuracy wise between the 20 and the 105 is the dispersion after firing (20-pounder 3.43 vs the 105s 3.92) The 105's longer reload means that misses hurt more (6 shells a min vs 9) but functionally the accuracy is the same for both guns

At full speeds and deflections, what you would see for a circle of death or run and gun

I found was that Smooth ride is really effective (at an impressive 2.6% effective improvement, 1.1 raw accuracy improvement)
Snap Shot is next to useless (less than .1% effective improvement,  .0008 raw accuracy improvement)

At poking speeds, minimal creep forward, autolocked gun for stability etc

its honestly not much different. the Effective % climbs to 3.5% for Smooth  (.0257 raw)
and for Snap, a miserable still less than 2% effective (.00219 Raw)

Spreadsheet if you really care and want to look at the numbers (or just copy it to your own drive and play with it)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s ace. Thanks  @Wanderjar. Yeah it corner poking/brawling I’m trying to improve on. I’m even considering dropping rammer for vents (with GLD and binos). Or once my crew has BiA replace the GLD with vents and keep the rammer. Will play around with it when the time comes.

So much for the fabled 7% of Snap Shot?

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, sohojacques said:

That’s ace. Thanks  @Wanderjar. Yeah it corner poking/brawling I’m trying to improve on. I’m even considering dropping rammer for vents (with GLD and binos). Or once my crew has BiA replace the GLD with vents and keep the rammer. Will play around with it when the time comes.

So much for the fabled 7% of Snap Shot?


Snap is a very good skill to have generally, but the Charioteer just happens to not benefit much from it since 90% of its dispersion comes from Hull movement (90.3%), not the turret movement (.7%)
 

Weights (% of Max Dispersion Calc)
(how much each affects total bloom)
Dispersion Dispersion Dispersion
Moving Hull Turret
Traverse Traverse Traverse
     
0.54 0.39 0.07



Since I haven't gone down this line yet, I cant tell you which of the other ones would get a decent benefit from it, but since the gunner's skills aren't a huge list its still worth getting since every bit helps

And As far as equipment goes, I'd keep the Binos and Rammer and drop the GLD for Vents if you want to.

because you still get to 0 bloom without the GLD,
The Rammer boosts your shot count/dpm and binocs give you self spotting ability, and you cant get either of those from Vents, accuracy you can, it just takes 10% longer time

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Wanderjar Thanks again. Got enough of a crew to justify retraining for BiA and mounted Vents. In game comparison says that my aim time is 0.16 seconds worse than with GLD. Since my max bloom and final accuracy are better with Vents, plus all the other slight stat boosts, I'd say it's Vents for the win.

Ground out the top gun last night but couldn't face playing the game any more after doing so. Will take it for a spin tonight. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

What the really need to do is make the second 20-pdr the stock gun and only have you grind the big gun. 

45k xp for a minor aim time/aim upgrade is insane.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This tank is so close to being glorious. But the gun handling is just too poor for it to make the grade. The final accuracy is nowhere near good enough to offset the terrible bloom with any kind of hull moment. Every shot feels so RNG dependent, which I guess is appropriate considering the line. 

With a slight gun handling buff it’d be a great poor man’s Skorp. But as it stands now, I’m considering moving the crew back to the Challenger.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2019 at 10:54 PM, sohojacques said:

This tank is so close to being glorious. But the gun handling is just too poor for it to make the grade. The final accuracy is nowhere near good enough to offset the terrible bloom with any kind of hull moment. Every shot feels so RNG dependent, which I guess is appropriate considering the line. 

With a slight gun handling buff it’d be a great poor man’s Skorp. But as it stands now, I’m considering moving the crew back to the Challenger.

Challenger is better T4T now but it's still good. With food it can work like a med. Not perfect but it's flexible enough and the Hesh is useful for soft meds and to be sure you kill those sub 220hp targets

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

Challenger is better T4T now but it's still good. With food it can work like a med. Not perfect but it's flexible enough and the Hesh is useful for soft meds and to be sure you kill those sub 220hp targets

I recently 3 marked the Challenger (one of my favourite tanks) and rage sold the Charioteer, which sums up my experience with the two. Maybe food would make enough of a difference, but I’ve stopped paying for premium time so can’t afford to run it at tier 8.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sohojacques said:

I recently 3 marked the Challenger (one of my favourite tanks) and rage sold the Charioteer, which sums up my experience with the two. Maybe food would make enough of a difference, but I’ve stopped paying for premium time so can’t afford to run it at tier 8.

Does charioteer still have stupid low 3 mark reqs? It used to have. Challenger may fit the new meta a bit better now but yeah food makes a big difference and I kinda find playing without prem pointless. Also now prem + 50% extra income means you can spam anything in anything

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

Does charioteer still have stupid low 3 mark reqs? It used to have. Challenger may fit the new meta a bit better now but yeah food makes a big difference and I kinda find playing without prem pointless. Also now prem + 50% extra income means you can spam anything in anything

Don’t know about the mark requirements. I’d expect them to be low though.

I know what you mean re premium account + credit boosters. Just want to limit what I spend on the game to crew reskilling and a bit of “free” xp conversion. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, sohojacques said:

Don’t know about the mark requirements. I’d expect them to be low though.

I know what you mean re premium account + credit boosters. Just want to limit what I spend on the game to crew reskilling and a bit of “free” xp conversion. 

I get it. I'm just unreasonable with my money since I got the new job. Though prem is a given for me. It's cheap so I don't worry about it that much and since I play on a shit laptop I need every advantage I can get. I don't spam gold but food and skills are important 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Charioteer in 2022. It is... ugh, so close to being great, but so, so frustrating.

The positives: it is a relatively stealthy TD which is fast and has a full turret, which means you get quite a bit of flexibility in terms of positioning and engagement, obviously especially relative to casemate or limited traverse TDs. The top gun is the trusty tier 9/10 British medium tank gun, which means you get standard APRC rounds with awesome penetration (particularly for the tier), excellent shell velocity, making it an excellent sniper at range, and with very handy HESH rounds which is particularly useful given the many soft targets at the tier in this day and age. DPM is decent, not the best but not the worst either.

Now the bad: the gun handling. Oh, the gun handling. This thing has turret and movement dispersion worse than a KV2 using the derp. Let that sink in for a moment. Here is a fast, mobile TD that can't use that mobility too well because the moment you move either your hull or your turret your reticle basically fills the entire screen. Given the relatively poor aim-time (2.35 seconds, one of the worst for the tier/class) and the fact that 390 alpha isn't all that hot for the tier/class in this day and age, this level of gun handling is just a guarantee for frustration. The supposed flexibility that having the full turret brings also cannot be leveraged properly all the time because it turns so slowly (again, only a slight bit faster than the KV2 turret). Of course it is also a paper TD with no armour, especially on the turret, and like many of the class/tier, will be deleted very quickly once lit up.

It very much feels power-crept. While once upon a time the bad gun handling could kind of be understood to limit having a tier 9 medium tank gun on a mobile, stealthy tier 8 tank destroyer it just doesn't feel justified when you have other TDs with better gun handling hitting for 490 or 520 alpha with gold penetration on par or superior with the standard penetration (the Skorp and SU-130PM), or 400 to 440 alpha with significant DPM advantages (TS-5 and WZ-120-1) all with better gun handling.

It also has a horrific stock grind with the same unnecessary second variant of the 20-pounder that you need to grind through from the medium and heavy tank lines (but of course the guns do not carry over, so you still need to grind them) which gives you mediocre penetration and pathetic alpha for the tier (let alone the class) and base DPM that is actually lower than the top gun.

75 games was all I could stomach, for a 50.67% win rate and 1,725 average damage per game, with 348 average assist. Only caveat is that I had a pretty bad crew in it (no BIA, and went camo first), so if you have a more experienced once you might be able to smooth a few of the flaws over. So frustrating. Some games the gun behaves and it feels amazing to land high-pen shots accurately at distance, especially on fast-moving targets. But then other games you sit there for an age aiming to whiff a shot just because your gun handles worse than a KV2 and you want to break your keyboard. My stats are quite similar to in the WZ-120-1, but the win rate is significantly worse because the WZ can play aggressive with its armour and it has a much heavier punch with 440 alpha and better DPM so you can influence a game more. This is almost a pure sniper because the slow turret and poor gun handling makes it hard to use the mobility like a medium, and as a sniper it simply lacks the punch of the Skorp or the SU-130PM, and doesn't gain enough in DPM to make up for it.

Not recommended.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/11/2022 at 4:56 AM, Balthazars said:

The Charioteer in 2022. It is... ugh, so close to being great, but so, so frustrating.

The positives: it is a relatively stealthy TD which is fast and has a full turret, which means you get quite a bit of flexibility in terms of positioning and engagement, obviously especially relative to casemate or limited traverse TDs. The top gun is the trusty tier 9/10 British medium tank gun, which means you get standard APRC rounds with awesome penetration (particularly for the tier), excellent shell velocity, making it an excellent sniper at range, and with very handy HESH rounds which is particularly useful given the many soft targets at the tier in this day and age. DPM is decent, not the best but not the worst either.

Now the bad: the gun handling. Oh, the gun handling. This thing has turret and movement dispersion worse than a KV2 using the derp. Let that sink in for a moment. Here is a fast, mobile TD that can't use that mobility too well because the moment you move either your hull or your turret your reticle basically fills the entire screen. Given the relatively poor aim-time (2.35 seconds, one of the worst for the tier/class) and the fact that 390 alpha isn't all that hot for the tier/class in this day and age, this level of gun handling is just a guarantee for frustration. The supposed flexibility that having the full turret brings also cannot be leveraged properly all the time because it turns so slowly (again, only a slight bit faster than the KV2 turret). Of course it is also a paper TD with no armour, especially on the turret, and like many of the class/tier, will be deleted very quickly once lit up.

It very much feels power-crept. While once upon a time the bad gun handling could kind of be understood to limit having a tier 9 medium tank gun on a mobile, stealthy tier 8 tank destroyer it just doesn't feel justified when you have other TDs with better gun handling hitting for 490 or 520 alpha with gold penetration on par or superior with the standard penetration (the Skorp and SU-130PM), or 400 to 440 alpha with significant DPM advantages (TS-5 and WZ-120-1) all with better gun handling.

It also has a horrific stock grind with the same unnecessary second variant of the 20-pounder that you need to grind through from the medium and heavy tank lines (but of course the guns do not carry over, so you still need to grind them) which gives you mediocre penetration and pathetic alpha for the tier (let alone the class) and base DPM that is actually lower than the top gun.

75 games was all I could stomach, for a 50.67% win rate and 1,725 average damage per game, with 348 average assist. Only caveat is that I had a pretty bad crew in it (no BIA, and went camo first), so if you have a more experienced once you might be able to smooth a few of the flaws over. So frustrating. Some games the gun behaves and it feels amazing to land high-pen shots accurately at distance, especially on fast-moving targets. But then other games you sit there for an age aiming to whiff a shot just because your gun handles worse than a KV2 and you want to break your keyboard. My stats are quite similar to in the WZ-120-1, but the win rate is significantly worse because the WZ can play aggressive with its armour and it has a much heavier punch with 440 alpha and better DPM so you can influence a game more. This is almost a pure sniper because the slow turret and poor gun handling makes it hard to use the mobility like a medium, and as a sniper it simply lacks the punch of the Skorp or the SU-130PM, and doesn't gain enough in DPM to make up for it.

Not recommended.

The ShPTK renders the Charioteer near-meaningless.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with Sr about the ShPTK but I think Charioteer is a great, balanced TD that rewards smart play, mobility use and ammo selection. Solid, fun, and balanced tier 8 TD in a class and tier with a ton of lazy, repetitive gameplay models. Just finished grind with 65% WR and 2300 DPG. I'll take that in anything I am solo grinding at tier 8. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...