Do the Garage Shuffle - LT edition

[Griphos 81]

Again, this is the kind of argument we get when people rely on comparing stats rather than experience playing the tanks.  The "opposition" is coming from people who play it and don't find it as effective.  

Having both, and having played both, the Bulldog still has nice speed, and is otherwise outclassed by most of its competition.  Your speculation about its relative usefulness is just that: speculation.  The Blackdog does take longer to get to speed, but I find its mobility on the battlefield surprisingly quick still.  And I haven't noticed any situations where lower VR has hurt me.  

[hazzgar 730]

35 minutes ago, Griphos said:

Again, this is the kind of argument we get when people rely on comparing stats rather than experience playing the tanks.  The "opposition" is coming from people who play it and don't find it as effective.  

Having both, and having played both, the Bulldog still has nice speed, and is otherwise outclassed by most of its competition.  Your speculation about its relative usefulness is just that: speculation.  The Blackdog does take longer to get to speed, but I find its mobility on the battlefield surprisingly quick still.  And I haven't noticed any situations where lower VR has hurt me.  

Yeah it's better to claim stuff that is often in direct contradiction to what is in game api because feelings rule over data. It's nice that you basically claimed that basically no one who plays bulldog now likes it and people who claim it is good only look at stats because you feel so. 

Overal early impressions of tanks are very often misleading. Unless someone can argument why they  think a new tank is bad I will asume a lot of it goes down to the fact that they haven't adjusted to new gameplay style required for it. I have too little experience in new lights except for the prems but I've seen some top players here going against the collective moan and be actually really positive about new lights so I'll assume the current consensus will hold as well as the early CDC praise.

[Griphos 81]

Dude.  You're embarrassing yourself.  

All I claimed is the people in this thread saying the Bulldog is less competitive are people who have played it to form that experience, not just looked at its stats.  Why do we all even bother playing the battles?  Why don't we all just compare the stats of the tanks on each side and decide who won?!

And what is your deal with calling actual experience "feelings"? 

No one is talking about feelings.  Except I will now.  I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt somehow.  Now, get over it!

[dualmaster333 3,324]

I ticketed back a few tanks and played them a bit this morning.

VK1602 Leopard - I think this may end up being my VK2801 replacement. It's definitely a little bit sluggish so it isn't the best for GOFAST. But the 3cm gun really works well at this tier and the gun handling is tons better than it was before. Putting 12x30 into the butt is just as satisfying as a good HE pen. And not seeing tier 8s is a huge boon because the substantial armor jump from 7-8 made the Leo pretty useless in those matches.

AMX 12t - This tank has gotten a whole lot better with this patch. 30% more horsepower and vastly better gun handling (and a Vstab!) make it much more pleasant to play. 4x135 clips work pretty well at this tier although it is a little on the slow side at 2.5s between shells. 144/202 pen is excellent. I haven't played any of the new tier 6 tanks yet so I can't compare the 12t, but it feels pretty decent. Only truly annoying thing is the French light tank elevation issues where the rear 180° can't point up very well. This constantly screws with my shots.

AMX 13 75 - 25% more horsepower, much better gun handling and a Vstab to boot. Same tier so overall a pretty substantial improvement. Only glaring problem (other than French light tank elevation) is that 4x135 starts to feel pretty underwhelming at this tier. That's only 540 burst IF you hit all 4 shots. It really limits your ability to dive isolated tanks and clip them out. The trade off is just over 12 second clip time. 4 shells is actually a pretty nice number in a clip; many times you don't get off more than that anyways. Now you can clip, drop lights, and you're loaded just in time to go again. I'm a little worried about the burst, but otherwise this tank seems to have profited substantially from the tier changes.

[CraBeatOff 5,741]

@dualmaster333 I think I'll make a ticket for the baby Leo and a junior AMX, those will provide homes for the VK2801 crew and likely the AMX30 1er, which has been crept by the Leo PTA and several of the 9 LTs in the role of scouty flanker with comfort.

[ZXrage 1,318]

Looking at the pen of the tier 10 lights, the penetration dropoff is horrendous. about 12mm dropoff/100m means any pen and sniping capabilities the Rhm. Pz. has is completely negated. To put into context, the M46's APCR pen drops 11mm/100m.

[Graf-Eisen 29]

but the AMX 30 Premier looks so sexy compared to the Leopard PTA, sucks.

[SchnitzelTruck 3,600]

13 hours ago, Graf-Eisen said:

but the AMX 30 Premier looks so sexy compared to the Leopard PTA, sucks.

I never understood the leopard sexiness craze. Looks like a deformed box

 

Unrelated, bulldog is fine with the single shot. It's just very uninteresting and no longer unique after the autoloader was nerfed into uselessness. 

[Nalok 51]

39 minutes ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

 

Unrelated, bulldog is fine with the single shot. It's just very uninteresting and no longer unique after the autoloader was nerfed into uselessness. 

 So what would you take instead then? For what I gather the HWK is out, B-C has an autoloader so for single shot enjoyment the LTTB? Or the WZ?

[SchnitzelTruck 3,600]

12 minutes ago, Nalok said:

 So what would you take instead then? For what I gather the HWK is out, B-C has an autoloader so for single shot enjoyment the LTTB? Or the WZ?

Shrug, havnt played the lttb or wz. Someone else can give a halfway informed response 

[Archaic_One 1,853]

I think I'm going to like the french LTs, but I have already had problem with the 4 shot clips when I'm arty hunting.  There are many instances where you can only kill one.  Talk about erectile dysfunction - having to stall for 20+ seconds to finish off the second arty = awkward.

[CraBeatOff 5,741]

LTTB and WZ are the best pubbing 8s! Zoom zoom or firepower, drivers choices.

[hazzgar 730]

On 6.05.2017 at 10:01 PM, Griphos said:

Dude.  You're embarrassing yourself.  

All I claimed is the people in this thread saying the Bulldog is less competitive are people who have played it to form that experience, not just looked at its stats.  Why do we all even bother playing the battles?  Why don't we all just compare the stats of the tanks on each side and decide who won?!

And what is your deal with calling actual experience "feelings"? 

No one is talking about feelings.  Except I will now.  I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt somehow.  Now, get over it!

You also suggested the group that defends the bulldog doesn't play the game. I'm not looking only at stats. I play the tank and look at the stats too as my opinion may be biased due to what maps I got, MM, teams, playing a tank when I had a bad day or not being able to adjust to a change fast enough. Also on which acc did you play the bulldog? I don't see many games on yours so wotlabs must not be updating.

 

You on the other hand seem to think that the last few games you played in a tank is a good reason to state your opinion as fact and claim everyone who doesn't agree is wrong. 

 

Also sorry but I'd rather trust Schnitzel than someone who  repetitively posts claims that suggest game api data is untrue yet still has no argument to prove it. 

 

btw. I'm still waiting you to send me those book names of yours since I assumed if you use them to boost your wot credibility you must be proud of them

15 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

I think I'm going to like the french LTs, but I have already had problem with the 4 shot clips when I'm arty hunting.  There are many instances where you can only kill one.  Talk about erectile dysfunction - having to stall for 20+ seconds to finish off the second arty = awkward.

13 57GF for arty hunting. I'm playing it way too much because of that shit kill arty mission for obj260

[CraBeatOff 5,741]

Just so it's clear, I am down on the bulldog because it has been homogenized into nothing special. Compared to it's peers it's now a tall soft ammo rack prone tank, perfectly playable but undistinguished. The gun depression isn't enough. The T49 has the same form factor, minus the explosive ammo, but also crushing dpm and a lol fun gun. Had the bulldog kept any semblance of the autoloader I'd be behind it, but for now I'll just fluff the crew into the Sheridan...

[TheMarine0341 4,972]

I'll be doing the same, moving the BullGod(lessHeathen)'s crew into the Sherridan, and keep the T-49. Its just too much fun w/ the two viable guns. I've stuck w/ the 90mm, but once I get the Sherridan I'll probably go 152-T49, 105-Sherry

[Graf-Eisen 29]

Why not just mount the derp on your sheridan whenever you're feeling frisky?

[hazzgar 730]

3 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

Just so it's clear, I am down on the bulldog because it has been homogenized into nothing special. Compared to it's peers it's now a tall soft ammo rack prone tank, perfectly playable but undistinguished. The gun depression isn't enough. The T49 has the same form factor, minus the explosive ammo, but also crushing dpm and a lol fun gun. Had the bulldog kept any semblance of the autoloader I'd be behind it, but for now I'll just fluff the crew into the Sheridan...

Will rebuy it. One thing. Is it better than trash t8 meds? 

[Griphos 81]

4 hours ago, hazzgar said:

You also suggested the group that defends the bulldog doesn't play the game. 

You on the other hand seem to think that the last few games you played in a tank is a good reason to state your opinion as fact and claim everyone who doesn't agree is wrong. 

I didn't "suggest" anything of the sort. I didn't "suggest" anything at all. I said things. And I didn't say that.

And I state my opinion as opinion.  You're the one with the "facts" hang up.  I don't recall claiming anyone is wrong about anything. That's your specialty.  

You do realize you're being kind of a dick (and kind of a stalker), right?

 

[Taze 43]

20 hours ago, Nalok said:

 So what would you take instead then? For what I gather the HWK is out, B-C has an autoloader so for single shot enjoyment the LTTB? Or the WZ?

I just ripped equipment from Bulldog and play my beloved T71 instead.

On other news, 1390 is freaking awesome now. I'll try to three mark it now (I have two, but I haven't played it like over a year before this patch) just because it's so much fun to play. 

[Griphos 81]

The T71 is pretty strong now.  It has my T37 crew in it now.  I'm tempted by the T49.  I may do a ticket on the Bulldog to finish the grind.  Other than the 13 90, it's sort of the only T9-10 lt that interests me at all.  

[hazzgar 730]

29 minutes ago, Griphos said:

I didn't "suggest" anything of the sort. I didn't "suggest" anything at all. I said things. And I didn't say that.

And I state my opinion as opinion.  You're the one with the "facts" hang up.  I don't recall claiming anyone is wrong about anything. 

You do realize you're being kind of a dick (and kind of a stalker), right?

 

Yes on #1. Nope on #2. 

23 minutes ago, Taze said:

I just ripped equipment from Bulldog and play my beloved T71 instead.

On other news, 1390 is freaking awesome now. I'll try to three mark it now (I have two, but I haven't played it like over a year before this patch) just because it's so much fun to play. 

It barely got nerfed. It should be a monster now given right mm. 

[ProfessorMunroe 36]

4 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

Just so it's clear, I am down on the bulldog because it has been homogenized into nothing special. Compared to it's peers it's now a tall soft ammo rack prone tank, perfectly playable but undistinguished. The gun depression isn't enough. The T49 has the same form factor, minus the explosive ammo, but also crushing dpm and a lol fun gun. Had the bulldog kept any semblance of the autoloader I'd be behind it, but for now I'll just fluff the crew into the Sheridan...

that's basically where I stand. It's good, but not good enough to stand out as a keeper, and it's certainly not unique enough to stand out anymore, either.  It's a real shame, as I loved playing the old autoloader bulldog due to it being both objectively good and unique.  

They could have prevented this by simply cutting down the clip reload appropriately when they cut down the clip size.  Heck, I might have even liked it better than the old autoloader due to the added flexibility.  Instead they decided to not use logic and gave it the same DPM as the (tier four) M5 Stuart.  Just. ugh.

 

 

[Griphos 81]

What is strange is that they reduced the clip AND the reload on several other reconfigured lights.  It's not as if this logic didn't make sense to them at all!

[Gryphon_ 541]

Agree. Bulldog is now meh. I just ripped the crew out for my new T49 and will sell the Bulldog on Tuesday once the discounts are over. (T49 and M48 Patton are my new toys).

[General_6 9]

I'm an average player at best but I've changed my mind on the bulldog. I thought the single shot was the better solution but I play better and like the 6 shot autoloader significantly more. As QB pointed out in his stream on Lights, this is a pure miss by WG in the hotfix CT. They just changed the clip without reload and I'm fairly confident that it will revert to 20 secs....sometime. 

I also think with HEP rounds floating around that the LTTB really shines with the armor package. Armor is relatively irrelevant with lights except when HE can autopen you, either from a T49, RU 251, or an Arty Shell.  The WZ 132 while not as robust, isn't pure paper as well.