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Canadian_Reaper

How do you fight Type 5 Heavies in a Heavy?

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2 hours ago, Hally said:

Type 5 would hit for 400 - 600 a shot. E-100 shoots back for 750. You are not winning that dpm race. It is very difficult for type 5 to stop any E-100 HEAT at point blank range.

Also, I'm pretty sure Type 5 is actually too tall to hit E-100's hull roof at facehug. But type 5 can shoot the police bar without inflicting much, if any self damage.

So then why the e100 should be able to win at close range? Or CarbonWard and Legga where talking only about the e5/is7?

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Thanks guys! AHdn't thought to try and close the distance at all, was shooting mostly at that 150-250 meter range, so he didn't really have to aim , but I did in order to pen him.

(Of course I've also managed to bounce a E100 HEAT shell off a Type 5 more than once, so "learning to aim" might be something I should do as well.

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5 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

So then why the e100 should be able to win at close range? Or CarbonWard and Legga where talking only about the e5/is7?

Type 5 does 400 - 600 dmg per shot, E100 does 750 per shot. E100 wins the close range shootout simply because it does far more dmg per shot, with little to no chance of failing to penetrate.

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On 12. 5. 2017 at 11:45 AM, leggasiini said:

>implying that tier 7s should be able to pen tier 9 super-heavy from front with AP shells

Though, with APCR majority of tier 7 heavies can go through cheeks if type 4 angles enough. Fucking Black Prince can pen those cheeks with APCR lmao

I'm not the one who wrote "Type 4's cheek sucks ass on other hand, you can pen it with AP instantly if he angles more than 10 degrees" which somewhat implies ANY AP ammo can do this, which is obviously false...

Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think it's ok for tier 7 heavy to easily damage tier 9 heavy frontally, that's just stupid idea. But having some kind of weakspot is crucial to game balance - VK has cupola, E75 has cupola or lower plate, ST-I has lower plate, M103 has paper turret roof, etc. But what about Type? That bull$hit tank can frontally withstand most of even tier 9 guns easily unless they double tap 2... That's nothing but stupid game design.

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31 minutes ago, kurcatovium said:

Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think it's ok for tier 7 heavy to easily damage tier 9 heavy frontally, that's just stupid idea. But having some kind of weakspot is crucial to game balance - VK has cupola, E75 has cupola or lower plate, ST-I has lower plate, M103 has paper turret roof, etc. But what about Type? That bull$hit tank can frontally withstand most of even tier 9 guns easily unless they double tap 2... That's nothing but stupid game design.

Ofc its stupid game design, but then gaining weakspot when you try to use your armor is also stupid game design.

It should be reworked but dunno if WG will ever do that. There would be so much to do so i guess its too much for them.

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18 hours ago, leggasiini said:

Ofc its stupid game design, but then gaining weakspot when you try to use your armor is also stupid game design.

It should be reworked but dunno if WG will ever do that. There would be so much to do so i guess its too much for them.

I don't think so. For example VK-B is very, very strong if played correctly even when it has turret weakspot that can be penned with AP from ANY tier 7 heavy. Same applies to ST-I and others. You just need to know something about your tank and also tanks you meet to minimize impact of lugging your weak spot with you. And that's perfectly fine unlike that japanese abomination.

Sad thing is japan HTs are not the only ones undergoing this kind of brain fart from WG. Maus is pretty much the same (probably even worse) now, Mauschën is the same, VK100.01P is the same, Defender is pretty much the same (those "cupolas" are a joke)... Looks like this is where WG is pointing their game now, double tap 2 to at least have a chance. And that simply is stupid, imo.

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1 hour ago, kurcatovium said:

I don't think so. For example VK-B is very, very strong if played correctly even when it has turret weakspot that can be penned with AP from ANY tier 7 heavy. Same applies to ST-I and others. You just need to know something about your tank and also tanks you meet to minimize impact of lugging your weak spot with you. And that's perfectly fine unlike that japanese abomination.

I dont think you got my point.

What i meant that Type 4 doesnt have weakpoints really if it points its front towards enemy, but when it actually tries to sidescrape it gains weakspot that it wouldnt have if it just brainlessly pointed its front towards enemy. The thing is, the armor is just enough on front to resist 250-260 pen normal ammo, but against anything more than that and it cant defend itself because it cannot use its armor due to gaining weakspot when you actually try to angle your armor (aka, use it).

Thats what i mean. Having no weakspots but then gaining weakspot when you actually try to increase your armor that is only weakspot when you try to increase your armor is stupid game design. VK B always has that cupola on top, did it angle the armor or not. Type 4's cheeks are weak only when it sidescrapes.

They should rework the tank so they remove cheeks, make the "non-weak" parts of hull stronger (so it doesnt get raped by gold instantly) but give it actual weakspots (make cupola weaker but smaller, give it actually lower plate weakspot). 

As for others, Mäuschen's armor is fine, and doesnt require "2-2" to go through. The LFP is weak as fuck, actually (less than 210 effective; weaker than E75 LFP and weaker than Defender's LFP, tbh might be even too weak but rather that than LFP that is immune to normal ammo), it has cupola that becomes weak-ish when it angles turret and turret face is pennable by AP. Agreed with VK 100 / Defender / Maus, though.

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I understand what you mean, but I still don't think it's that easy.

Take the Type again, even when he angles in such manner that its cheek is facing you ideally, it still has its 200 mm. And most of the time, you won't be having ideal shot at that spot anyway, so it's more like 210+ "weakspot". Plus even when he "overangles" like this, his cheek is still the weakest part of it - relatively small area of ~200 mm and everything else is a bit more, much more or even straight autobounce... Funny. Yeah, that cheek in those ideal conditions is penetrable with most tier 7/8 gold rounds, some tier 8 regular rounds and most tier 9 regular rounds. That would be probably OK if that kind of weakspot was there all the time and not just when the tank angles.

Now take look at Tiger P which is somewhat comparable vehicle, just from "the old days of WoT". It is super strong because it has "insane" 200 mm of frontal armour. On places... But lower plate is 80 mm of butter. And cheeks? You can pen those cheeks with almost everything T5+ straight frontally without Piger even angling (about 110 mm effective). And when he angles? Boy, oh boy, I penned it even with KV-2 HE because armor there is FAR from 200 mm frontal plate - it's actually only 80 mm as is LFP, which is mere 40% of that advertised 200 mm frontal plate. And on top of that it also has cupola weakspot ranging from 150 to 50 (!!!) mm which is plain ridiculous.

Now imagine Type with armor scheme similar to Piger. Super strong frontal plate with +- 120 mm cheeks and LFP and 70 mm cupola... Yeah, in your face Type Piger. Everyone knows Piger is garbage, but Type is simply straight opposite of that. And argument that "he needs to show weakspot when trying to use armor" is not really that valid as in real conditions it won't be that much of a weakspot and it still can be somewhat mitigated by wiggling or driving back and forth. When you drive VK and you want to shoot your enemies you show your weak cupola. When you just angle your front to absorb enemy shots, you can't return fire. What's there so different from Type? Yeah, you can somewhat hide cupola in ideal conditions when you peak from right side, but there's still (very small) turret ring or if you're slightly above him and has 122 mm gun you can overmatch turret roof...

Also, yeah, as some might say, you can flank it and destroy it easily, but this could be applied to ANY tank in game so I don't take it as a point. Because sometime it would work against any tank and other times it just can't be done against same tank, different tank, every other tank depending on battlefield conditions.

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If you can get a bit higher than the Type you can shoot its cupola from above because getting higher negates cupola angling. For example E5 wiht -8 gun depression and OK mobility can try to use this kind of tactic in many situations with just regular AP. Type has 90mm of top armor so you have to be a lot above it to be able to penetrate that so cupola is your best chance anyway.

But don´t get me wrong these things are a true pain in the ass to deal with and pressing 2 seems the real choice and I don´t feel bad doing it because if you drive that OP stupidity you deserve to be gold spammed to hell. :) You lose credits but so do they because they need to fix their tank after the battle. :P

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