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Caernarvon, Conqueror and Super Conqueror on supertest

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3 hours ago, DHP said:

Just checked the gun stats with our current Conqueror. It's worse pretty much everywhere (not by a great much thought).. 

Checking with tankinspector

Super Conqueror vs Conqueror

Dispersion on turret traverse: 0,134 vs 0.096

Dispersion on moving: 0,153 vs 0.115

Dispersion on turning hull: 0,096 vs 0.115

Verdict: way worse dispersion and oddly high dispersion on turret traverse. The average for t10 heavys on turret traverse dispersion is 0.1

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The Caernavon went from absolute shittier to godtier in a single patch, it gets fucking 2.7k BASE-DPM on a fucking tier 8 heavy, slightly more that the Super Conquerer fore some stupid reason.

You get the same rate of fire as the Object 907 for only 40 less alpha 2 tiers lower.

I can see this thing replacing the IS-3 on most positions except for pure hulldown-positions that don't require gundepression because of the somewhat unreliable turret against gold rounds.

This is it boys, the IS-3 is getting powercreeped.

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On the note of the caernarvon, it's new configuration has one thing very odd about it. It's historical gun option was removed. That aside, the new turret and gun are absolutely silly powerful. 

 

 

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Any notes on the coqueror's gun handling in the server test (even shittier than the super conq)? And what about the movility?

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2 minutes ago, Nkrlz said:

Any notes on the coqueror's gun handling in the server test (even shittier than the super conq)? And what about the movility?

The testserverstats are already up on tanks.gg.

https://tanks.gg/v09201ct/list

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It honestly doesn't make ANY sense.. This tank is the maus all over again.. 

 

wY0jjMx.png

 

And gun handling was slightly nerfed so you might even think that the gun is now shit.. But no.. 

 

It has better gun handling then the patriot while having better alpha AND 30% more DPM.. And if that ain't enough it has .34 accuracy

 

I also added some other 300 and 240 alpha gun for comparison: lq5NR4p.png

 

 

I'm just scratching my head thinking how WG can't see that this is going to be OP.. (never thought i would say that for Caernaveron..).

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Easy. After 14k dmg you will run out of shells. Then you will be useless therefore this tank is balanced. 

But thus whole balancing is ridiculous. From the worst T8 to one of the best in one patch. A joke. 

 

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7 hours ago, Fabunil said:

This is it boys, the IS-3 is getting powercreeped.

 

57 minutes ago, DHP said:

I'm just scratching my head thinking how WG can't see that this is going to be OP.. (never thought i would say that for Caernaveron..).

c9d581d31d4f90d15bbd87f71825dd01--winsto

 

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3 hours ago, hall0 said:

Easy. After 14k dmg you will run out of shells. Then you will be useless therefore this tank is balanced. 

But thus whole balancing is ridiculous. From the worst T8 to one of the best in one patch. A joke. 

 

Isn't that a thing with WG, make shitty line good and watch fools grinding it, skipping shit and investing into premium/gold :doge: 

I agree Caernarvon needed some love, but this is pure prostitution :D 

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Don't see the problem yet. Comparing the flimsily armored Caern which's armor is only good in the ridge-line sniper-role, to heavily armored tanks that can drive in your face and laugh about even some gold-shells, is kind of meh.

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14 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Don't see the problem yet. Comparing the flimsily armored Caern which's armor is only good in the ridge-line sniper-role, to heavily armored tanks that can drive in your face and laugh about even some gold-shells, is kind of meh.

Did you look at the new turret armour or ... ? 

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22 minutes ago, DHP said:

Did you look at the new turret armour or ... ? 

FV215B has good turret armor and best gun in its tier, its still more underpowered side than overpowered. This looks about same.

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Super Conqueror is crap, for going from tier 9 to tier 10, you get a minor armour upgrade, 400 HP, 450 DPM and then worse gun handling and worse mobility. GG.  If you put the Super Conquerors HP and DPM down to the current Conquerors level you'd have a decent tier 9 heavy.  

As for the Caernarvon I'm not seeing the issue. 280 alpha is crap still, you lose pen, shell velocity (shells feel really derpy to me) and gun handling compared to the 20 lber. 

Turret goes from good on ridges to good generally (but then pretty much the Cent 1 and Primo Victoria turrets are just as good) and tier 8 prem rounds will still punch through the turret front, as will tanks like the Skorpion, T34 etc. with above average pen rolls. So you increase your turret protection by maybe 10-15%. Hull armour is still poor, 76mm sides make it sidescrape a little better but it was still about auto-bounce angles.  

So leaving the DPM aside you have a tank that is basically the same in playstyle and strengths, still has the worst alpha for a tier 8 heavy, still has armour that means you need to be working ridges, still has decent gun handling just a tad worse. You just now have really good DPM to compensate for the low alpha.  WG should be applying this rule to more tanks, tier 8 medium DPM buffs, tier 10 light DPM buffs etc. Should be very low alpha for tier = super high DPM. Cos let's be honest, alpha is king, hardly like a Caernarvon for 99% of players is going to do better than they will do in IS3s, Defenders and WK 1001Ps. 

BTW same gun on the Conqueror has just shy of 3k base DPM. 

Conqueror pretty much keeps everything bar 150 DPM, gets the weakspots under the turret buffed like all 3 tanks do, gets the burster plates on the turret, gets a side armour buff and UFP buff. LFP is cheese but seeing as gun handling and mobility are basically unchanged (lose like 0.3 hp/ton) it's a win for the Conqueror. 

 

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27 minutes ago, sahtila said:

FV215B has good turret armor and best gun in its tier, its still more underpowered side than overpowered. This looks about same.

But it's a -7deg rear mounted turret versus a -10 center mounted turret. It plays completely differently on hills. 

And when you look at all the existing tanks you don't have a lot of tank that are good hulldown with very good DPM (the closest being the patriot with way less DPM) or you need to go all the way to tier 10 where you have tank like the STB, patton or 30B that have either shit gun handling, shit pen, or shit accuracy, this will be one of the first in this genre (good dpm, good turret, good depression, good gun handling, good accuracy, only lacking alpha that is also buff at 280).

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23 minutes ago, DHP said:

But it's a -7deg rear mounted turret versus a -10 center mounted turret. It plays completely differently on hills. 

And when you look at all the existing tanks you don't have a lot of tank that are good hulldown with very good DPM (the closest being the patriot with way less DPM), this will be one of the first in this genre.

It will be, what it was supposed to be, to begin with. That hardly makes it overpowered, it just makes it workable in it's specific niche. Hulldown-ridge-line snipers with tough turrets aren't exactly a novelty in this game. And the DPM? It's just where it needs to be to compensate for high alpha on other tanks. Besides, I can't recall anyone calling the T32 with the 90mm gun overpowered, which basically is the new and improved Caern, except the turret is weaker and it gets better DPM and soft stats. I call that balanced.

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The caer has better gun handling, alpha and accuracy than 90mm T32 with 40% more DPM. We shall see what happen to it, my money is on the fact that it's going to be an incredible machine from now on with a nerf coming in 2/3 patches.

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21 minutes ago, DHP said:

The caer has better gun handling, alpha and accuracy than 90mm T32 with 40% more DPM. We shall see what happen to it, my money is on the fact that it's going to be an incredible machine from now on with a nerf coming in 2 patches.

Well, I admit that 2500 DPM is certainly on the higher end of what I expected from the Caern. I always argued that the Black Prince should have gotten 2k DPM and obviously a T8 heavy would need more than that to stay competative tier for tier (especially since it has less effective armor, that got even less effective when they HD'd the vehicle the first time, only to get an ahistorical turret that wasn't really that effective either, but that is besides the point and I digress, so back to the theme). I agree that the Caern is going to get a lot more buffs than I ever expected them to do and they might end up as being a bit much in the combination, we'll see, but nothing really strikes me as game-breaking for the moment.

I expect it to be good, superb even in the hulldown position, but there are only so many ridge-line spots in the game that win a match and what it always comes down to is, how the vehicle will perform in open combat at shorter ranges on flat ground and this is where this vehicle isn't really great, won't be really great. It's slow, it has no hull-armor, it can't trade well against most other heavies. It gets the DPM though, so has a fighting chance. To me, that seems like a sweetspot, for now. And, let's be honest here, the Brits deserve to get something good in tier 8, finally ;)

I'll try to get my clan renamed to British Caernarvons, if we finally start using it in CW and stuff like this happens every now and again... again.

RZxxYCi.jpg

Good old times, when accuracy actually mattered and HD didn't mean highly damagable for british tanks. Caernarvon Victor!

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I did notice in the Super Conq that it seemed I was taking a lot less damage from Type 5 heavies and E100's that derped me. Not sure if the extra armor helps, or it was just some abnormally low RNG for them, ( was over 4 games, not exactly a decent sample size) but I had a bunch of 190ish-220ish damage hits on me, usually they're 300+

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25 minutes ago, DHP said:

Just for the lolz : k24GjPS.png

Except for some outliers, most of these tanks have quite noticibly higher alpha than a Caern. Or are more mobile. Or have better armor. Or have a gimmick. I think you are focusing too much on one aspect. But we're turning in circles here, let's see what the testers have to say.

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Sorry for double-posting, but I think this bears relevance:

WoT Supertest – Caernarvon AX

Huh. Basically the current Caern AX, getting the Super-Conq-turret treatment, better DPM andmuch better mobility, compared to current Caern. I think this might actually be one of their concepts for improving the Caern without giving it a new gun. I'm a bit on the fence about this, but certainly intrigued. The extra spacers on the turret don't really deal with the weaknesses of the CAX-turret, but having the current Caern with vastly better mobility and 2.1k DPM is tasty,

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2 hours ago, Nicarasu said:

Damn, I wonder if I could powergrind to the 215B before the patch... or if I should just wait for the buffed brits, seeing as I'm currently on the Churchill 1.

I just finished the grind. I like the 215B. I think it was worth it. I also tried the super Conqeror on the test server and there is nothing super about it. Imo probably the worst tier 10 heavy. I didn't play the IS-4 so that might be worse.

215B>>>>S.Conq

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3 minutes ago, TAdoo87 said:

I just finished the grind. I like the 215B. I think it was worth it. I also tried the super Conqeror on the test server and there is nothing super about it. Imo probably the worst tier 10 heavy. I didn't play the IS-4 so that might be worse.

215B>>>>S.Conq

That's a little disappointing, the Super Conq looks really cool lol. I think I'll save myself the trouble and not bother with that line then, it's not like I am a huge fan of heavies anyway.

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