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Canadian_Reaper

Any thoughts on the TD line?

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Have the tier 8, but not with the top gun yet.
Only got one battle without tier 10 tanks, feels a bit anemic so far, prem t8 is so much better, will reserve final judgement until I've gotten some battles with the big gun.

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A summary of the line from tiers 4-9

Tier 4 (SU-76G FT): very similar to the Soviet SU-85B at the same tier.

Tier 5 (60G FT): gigantic, slow, poor camo, good gun doesn't make up for the rest.

Tier 6 (WZ-131G FT): basically a turretless LT -- a Type 62 with the Type 59 gun. Fast, decent camo, but horrible armor and poor shell velocity. Not too bad.

Tier 7 (T-34-2G FT): a generally inferior SU-122-44. Gives up DPM and mobility for better gun handling and AP/HEAT penetration.

Tier 8 (WZ-111-1 FT): I didn't like this one, it makes too many compromises. Not good enough camo and gun handling to snipe at range, not enough mobility, armor, or HP to brawl. The 1,000 HP is just crippling, and the chassis is slow and unresponsive. Hurts when it hits-- 560 is no joke -- but getting gun on target consistently is a chore. It isn't helped by the absolutely garbage T8 MM.

Tier 9 (WZ-111G FT): A side-grade from the 704, arguably better. Has better armor and 200 more HP than the 704, and, amazingly, better penetration too! (290/395), but has less DPM and less camo. Also has terrible shell velocity (760 m/s). Has a GIANT mantlet that attracts shells like Lakeville valley does pubbies. Works better as a second or even top-tier frontline brawler, but suffers at range vs the 704 due to the slow, loopy shell. I think it is the best tank in the line so far.

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20 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

Im at the t6 so far, and i im afraid this is gonna be a long grind, the maps dont rally favor turretless TDs without armour / gun arc / alpha dmg...

You'll get alpha at tier 7. It goes from 240 (6)->390 (7)->560 (8)->750 (9 & 10)

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As I've decided to grind up this line, will post my thoughts here as I get through the tanks. Decided to start out at Tier 6 - the WZ-131G FT.

In summary, I actually really quite like it. Stock it is slow and cumbersome with a decent gun. Upgraded tracks and engine, and it moves like a medium tank. Small, and with a good crew and binocs you can max view range in a decent bush and outspot a lot of tanks in the tier, which is pretty hilarious. Had several games acting as a quasi-scout, and the fast speed allows you to get into some aggressive positions normally reserved for lights as a TD.

The gun is pretty good for the tier, good DPM and penetration (you won't bounce much for the tier), and the alpha is pretty nice. Gun arc is also quite generous, so you don't feel super-gimped trying to track and opponent going across your line of fire.

No armour to speak off though, and you will get full-penned by HE spamming things with derp guns (and of course arty), even from the front so one has to be pretty careful. Light tanks can also pen you frontally which is pretty brutal. Low HP and it is a casemate TD so if an opponent gets close to you, you're be in a lot of trouble.

25 games (slightly less than that to finish the grind). 52% win rate (it was almost 60% at one point, but a few bad teams and you'll struggle to carry games), 1,224 DPG with 418 average assist - it is actually my best performing tier 6 tank by some margin (the VK 30.01P, my only 3-marked tank is the next closest, and it's pretty close).

It's quite a fun tank.

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I stopped after tier 8. Wasn't too thrilled with the slow, armored TDs. The tier 9 and 10 have some armor, but since it's flat and thick it's pretty pointless when people spam gold.

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Continuing down the line, just finished grinding the tier 7 - T34-2G FT.

This one is absolutely a downgrade compared to the tier 6. It gains some alpha (390 with the old reliable 122), but gives up too much mobility for basically no real gain in armour, which means you can't get to as many forward bushes, so reliant to go to the more typical TD spots. The DPM is pretty good, and it has pretty good penetration for a 122, but the shots are derpy meaning you will miss a lot at long ranges, and the gun handling gets worse so it's much harder to run around and zero in on targets if you're trying to play like a quasi-medium. Low HP is also pretty crippling as you can get 2-shot by tier 9s and some big-alpha tier 8s if they roll high.

Stock grind itself isn't awful, the stock gun is the same as the tier below with better DPM which is decent. Engine and tracks do not add much in terms of mobility. You get an intermediate gun for no reason other than an XP sink however that adds marginally better handling and penetration.

50 games, 48% win rate (it was as bad as 44% when I started the grind), 1,132 average damage with 367 average assist. It's not hugely far off my top-performing tanks in the tier, but it feels a heck of a long way off. Quite frustrating to play, would not recommend.

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On 6/21/2020 at 8:19 PM, Kymrel said:

I stopped after tier 8. Wasn't too thrilled with the slow, armored TDs. The tier 9 and 10 have some armor, but since it's flat and thick it's pretty pointless when people spam gold.

tier 9 is pretty whack since you still have autobounce and can spam 395 pen HEATwitzers

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Playing through the T8 and really not enjoying myself, feels like a Ferdinand with a damaged gun and half the HP ripped away before the battle even starts. Really ridiculous that something this big and slow needs to make do with 1000 HP.

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8 hours ago, Rexxie said:

Playing through the T8 and really not enjoying myself, feels like a Ferdinand with a damaged gun and half the HP ripped away before the battle even starts. Really ridiculous that something this big and slow needs to make do with 1000 HP.

Hey Rexxie, welcome back!

I've just started grinding the tier 8 as well. I totally agree about the HP - 1,000 feels so low for something so fat and slow. Getting two-shot by some of your opponents sucks hard. Getting 4-shot by crappy 230-alpha meds if they get lucky and roll high sucks even harder.

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I'm just about finished with the T8 now and I'm going to throw it in the bad but not so bad you'll remember it category. The only real advice I can give someone about to hit it is that you need to ignore the armor entirely. It won't do anything. When you couple it with 1k hp, you're not any tankier than an ISU. Don't be like me and think it can ever front line a fight, my DPG went from like 900 to 2,500 after giving up on that possibility. Stats aren't going to ever recover but at least I know better now.

Sort of looking forward to the T9 though; the 704 was always one of the easiest tanks to farm damage with in the game and I don't see any reason why the Chinese clone won't be the same. Just as good at bushkemp, much better outside of it. You lose some camo but gain a lot of VR, lose some DPM but have better gun handling, and lose velocity but gain dumb HEAT pen. Everything else is a bit better, and hopefully 250 UFP along with the return of the ISU/704's dumb big mantlet will give it a little more staying power. If not, at least it has T10 TD hp instead of worst-in-tier.

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I've just finished the tier 8 now to, the WZ-111-1 FT.

It's not flat-out awful, but it isn't particularly good either, especially when you put it up against the tier 8 premium. The gun is pretty good, both the middle gun (top 122) and the top gun (130) are pretty good offering okay gun handling, penetration and alpha. The top gun in particular is pretty nice, excellent penetration for a tier 8 with chunky alpha means you can deter pushes on lines where you can camo up and can also pick off lowish-health tanks.

The main issue is that the platform is absolutely dreadful. Slow, armour that only works if you can hide the lower plate, and even then, only really against lower tiers, and pitiful HP at only 1,000 meaning that if you get spotted, it's over very quickly. I really don't know why WG gave such a slow tank with so little armour so little HP. Camo is okay, so you can bush-kemp, but if you're required to push a lane or engage multiple tanks, you're going to struggle.

This is where the comparison to the tier 8 premium is just so silly. In the premium, you get vastly better mobility, actual armour that bounces things (especially against lower tiers, meaning you can bully), slightly better DPM (okay, you lose a bit of alpha strike, but 440 is still really good for tier 8), better camo and better view range. It's just silly.

My stats: 90 games to complete the grind, 46.67% win rate, 1,468 average damage with 308 average assist. Frustrating and not that much fun to play.

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Annnd done with the line! Overall a well balanced line without any particular misery (outside of the stock T8). I'll pick up the T10 eventually but I'm not in a rush. It looks like the T9 with built-in Grousers, which I imagine is pretty average at T10 and plays exactly the same way.

It's definitely a lazy line, but it's not bad at all. Reminds me of the rest of the Chinese tree when they first came out. Not horribly exciting to play and they definitely have some hiccups, but they'll be safe from powercreep for a little while. Just pick them up when you're feeling bored and want to throw some HEAT at people.

 

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I've not quite finished the grind on the tier 9, but it's absolutely a highlight of the line, completely hilarious. Yes it's a slow casemate TD, so it will never be best-in-class, but just a shade over 3,000 DPM, with 750 alpha, 395 HEAT rounds if you just can't be bothered aiming, some usable armour, plus excellent gun handling? Pretty fun in the right circumstances. Some of my best games have come when top tier on Ensk and simply r-r-r straight into the all the enemy heavy tanks and melting face.

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Yeah, I have to take back what I said earlier. I took the plunge and got the tier 9. It is surprisingly fun for a turretless TD. Blapping people in the face for 750 never gets old and there aren't that many of them around so some people don't even press 2 until the first shot or two bounces.

Low shell velocity is my pet peeve with this one. Makes sniping moving targets (read: EBR pests) harder.

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1 hour ago, Kymrel said:

Low shell velocity is my pet peeve with this one. Makes sniping moving targets (read: EBR pests) harder.

The low shell velocity and relatively poor accuracy means that it is not designed at all for long-range bush-kemping. All the better for it, as it encourages you to get forward and smack people in the face with 750 alpha, and brawling or second-lining means that you're less likely to need to shoot said EBRs.

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1 hour ago, Kymrel said:

Yeah, I have to take back what I said earlier. I took the plunge and got the tier 9. It is surprisingly fun for a turretless TD. Blapping people in the face for 750 never gets old and there aren't that many of them around so some people don't even press 2 until the first shot or two bounces.

Low shell velocity is my pet peeve with this one. Makes sniping moving targets (read: EBR pests) harder.

Shower thought: would the 268 actually be OP if it had no bloom and 2k shell velocity?

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4 hours ago, Balthazars said:

The low shell velocity and relatively poor accuracy means that it is not designed at all for long-range bush-kemping. All the better for it, as it encourages you to get forward and smack people in the face with 750 alpha, and brawling or second-lining means that you're less likely to need to shoot said EBRs.

Agreed. My best games have been ones where I've been very aggressive. Less easy against a bunch of tier 10s but I tend to be too aggressive in all my tanks anyway...

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Re: tier 9
Not sure if optimal but have been having some success with rammer/grousers/turbo. Goes 35-ish easily and 38 on hard ground. It's a faster T95 with more gun and less armour, and you pretty much pummel the shit out of every tier 8 that exists.

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On 8/28/2020 at 8:56 AM, lavawing said:

Re: tier 9
Not sure if optimal but have been having some success with rammer/grousers/turbo. Goes 35-ish easily and 38 on hard ground. It's a faster T95 with more gun and less armour, and you pretty much pummel the shit out of every tier 8 that exists.

Why not IRM instead of grousers? It also helps turn speed and helps mitigate some bloom.

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