M48 patton preferred crew skills for a 5 skill crew

[Vampiresbane 4]

I'm considering resetting my crew skills once I unlocked the m48, not just retraining my m46 crew for the m48.  It basically amounts to dropping camo and losing/gaining other more useful skills than I have currently.

I plan on using Gun Rammer, Vents, and Vert Stabilizer for equipment.

Right now, their skills are:                                                                I plan to make them:

Commander: BiA, 6th Sen, Repairs, Camo, Recon                         Commander: BiA, 6th Sen, Eagle Eye, Recon, Repairs

Gunner:         BiA, Snap S, Repairs, Camo, Desig Tar                    Gunner:         BiA, Snap S, Deadeye, Desig Target, Repairs

Driver:           BiA, Smooth, Repairs, Camo, Off-Road                     Driver:           BiA, Smooth, Clutch Breaking, Off-Road, Repairs,  

Radioman:    BiA, Sit Awa, Repairs, Camo, Fire Fight                     Commander (new for M46): BiA, 6th Sen, Repairs, Recon, JoAT

Loader:         BiA, Safe St,  Repairs, Camo, Adrenaline                   Loader:         BiA, Sit Aware, Safe St, Adrenaline, Repairs                   

Thoughts? Feedback?  Some minor changes really, but I'm finding anyone with view range is spotting me automatically.  That camo skill just doesn't seem to be helping much at all with the m46 even though it's maxed and the M48's camo is only going to get worse than the m46's. 

 

[Hally 126]

Camo doesn't help you that much, but still helps way more than things like designated target and eagle eye.

[Fulcrous 2,073]

Optimal setup...

commander - bia / 6th / recon / camo / repairs

gunner - bia / snap / armorer / camo / repairs

driver - bia / smooth / clutch or off road / camo / repairs

Loader - bia / safe / sit aw/ camo / repairs

reasons for armorer - great for downtime on repairs when gun breaks. A lot of my tanks suffer from this issue and since the m48 is generally abusing its turret, i suspect this to happen often.

Reason for camo first then repairs. Repairs are generally unnecessary with good positioning. Camo lets you camo snipe blind heavies longer and is useful in open maps - despite seemingly minimal effects. 

You can change camo/repairs on the commander to joat/repair or camo. Joat is also useful for downtime on the med kit.

[Vampiresbane 4]

48 minutes ago, Hally said:

Camo doesn't help you that much, but still helps way more than things like designated target and eagle eye.

 

37 minutes ago, Fulcrous said:

Optimal setup...

commander - bia / 6th / recon / camo / repairs

gunner - bia / snap / armorer / camo / repairs

driver - bia / smooth / clutch or off road / camo / repairs

Loader - bia / safe / sit aw/ camo / repairs

reasons for armorer - great for downtime on repairs when gun breaks. A lot of my tanks suffer from this issue and since the m48 is generally abusing its turret, i suspect this to happen often.

Reason for camo first then repairs. Repairs are generally unnecessary with good positioning. Camo lets you camo snipe blind heavies longer and is useful in open maps - despite seemingly minimal effects. 

You can change camo/repairs on the commander to joat/repair or camo. Joat is also useful for downtime on the med kit.

Curious you guys would suggest camo.  I suppose it's worthwhile versus heavies.  I'm a little surprised about armorer instead of Deadeye, but I can understand the reasoning.  Armorer could work pretty well with my equipment setup.   Swapping repairs out for JoAT is actually a really good idea.  I rarely, rarely, have instances where I'm tracked and waiting for my repair skill to repair my tracks. 

[sohojacques 271]

Yeah I’ve got full camo but no BiA on my M46. Getting out spotted by seemingly everyone bar HTs is the only downside I can find of this tank. But without camo HTs might start out spotting me as well, so...

[simba90 100]

2 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

Optimal setup...

commander - bia / 6th / recon / camo / repairs

gunner - bia / snap / armorer / camo / repairs

driver - bia / smooth / clutch or off road / camo / repairs

Loader - bia / safe / sit aw/ camo / repairs

reasons for armorer - great for downtime on repairs when gun breaks. A lot of my tanks suffer from this issue and since the m48 is generally abusing its turret, i suspect this to happen often.

Reason for camo first then repairs. Repairs are generally unnecessary with good positioning. Camo lets you camo snipe blind heavies longer and is useful in open maps - despite seemingly minimal effects. 

You can change camo/repairs on the commander to joat/repair or camo. Joat is also useful for downtime on the med kit.

Whats you opinion on running designated target over armorer?

My setup is almost exactly the same as yours just with that one difference.

[Fulcrous 2,073]

1 hour ago, Vampiresbane said:

Curious you guys would suggest camo.  I suppose it's worthwhile versus heavies.  I'm a little surprised about armorer instead of Deadeye, but I can understand the reasoning.  Armorer could work pretty well with my equipment setup.   Swapping repairs out for JoAT is actually a really good idea.  I rarely, rarely, have instances where I'm tracked and waiting for my repair skill to repair my tracks. 

It's the fact that camo remains active in all situations that makes it a must have in nearly all medium tanks by the 3rd skill (I can go more in-dept into how i train my crews in regards to camo earlier on).

http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camo-calculator

Select M48 patton --> select 100% camo and vehicle camo (assuming you have perm/temp camo on your tank), BiA, and food.
Assuming max spotting on a typical RU med (i.e. 907)... it has 485.97VR (not including vents).

A non-camo'd M48 will be lit by the 907 at 436.8M when stationary and no bushes are in the line of fire.
In contrast, a fully camo-crewed M48 will be lit at 403.22M - a whopping distance of 33 meters.

It sounds small, but the difference is HUGE because it increases the time you are allowed to not only shoot but also escape before detection. This is even more important when you consider the vast majority of players do NOT have optimal crew skills, consumables, and equipment

With no spotting investment, the enemy 907 will spot the M48 at 326m at 100% camo versus 357 meters at 0% camo.
In contrast, you will spot it 393 meters away (assuming no camo investment) a difference of nearly 70 meters. The extra 30 meter gap lets you get in that extra shot before you get lit - assuming that the 907 charges straight at you.

In essence, the idea is to maximize the range (both time and distance) you are allowed to shoot before getting lit and shot at yourself. In addition, maximizing camo reduces the time you stay lit.

8 minutes ago, simba90 said:

Whats you opinion on running designated target over armorer?

My setup is almost exactly the same as yours just with that one difference.

I think both work. People have made their arguments for designated target, but I don't find that as important as having armorer. Whilst the extra 2 seconds of spotting time is useful, when you consider the fact spotting time is dependent on camo... it makes no real difference in the long run (especially when you need to reload your gun). Tanks will stay lit anywhere from 5-10 seconds (dependent on camo) after initial lights without designated target. With, tanks will stay lit from 7 - 12 seconds. When you consider the fact that the M48's reload is ~ 6.66 seconds (max reload minus vents), it really makes no difference as you can simply blind fire said targets.

I find armorer more useful than designated target for one simple reason: there is nothing you can do to minimize dispersion when a gun is broken besides repairing the gun or having armorer as a crew skill. It is especially useful in the downtime when you have already used your repair kit and have 90 seconds to wait. It is also useful when you have a small repair kit and have to choose between multiple modules (i.e. the ammo rack, the gun, and/or tracks).

[nabucodonsor 461]

 

I'd recomend what Fulcros said but I'd get repair and camo first over the other skills and perks (get bia as third) because i prefer to get my tracks up asap and camo is good to get one shot of dmg without being seen. Camo is good too when you keep heavies at distance in the endgame.

The M48 gets big tracks so you could bait people to shoot them and get tracked for no dmg and repairs would get you moving sooner. Plus if arty hits you and you are safe you can save your repair kit for later instead of waisting it or waiting for too long. 

[DHP 502]

Not thinking about camo sniping but just not being spotted from 445m away randomly by a passing LT is also very nice.

[SaintLaurentius 532]

Fulcruos is onto something, but armorer and clutch-shit seems wasteful to me. Also, FF over camo, if you're planning on running the tank with Food. JOAT is also waste of a crewskill nowadays, cos you cant run without medkit anymore, cos arta.

 

Soons as I get home, I will post my setup.

[MatzerMike 3]

What about adrenaline rush instead of safe st. on loader? Isn't getting more dpm better than perk, that is probably not so useful?

Sometimes, I have my best farms when I get fucked right at the start and only survive with few HP, because it would force me to play more wisely and camo farm.

[8_Hussars 348]

It's often a player development decision, light tankers moving to mediums often favour camo and heavy tankers favour repairs on mediums.  Coming from light tanks I am a camo over repair for non-brawling mediums. YMMV 

13 hours ago, simba90 said:

Whats you opinion on running designated target over armorer?

My setup is almost exactly the same as yours just with that one difference.

Designated Target provides extended spotting time for tanks you are spotting within a narrow cone of your aim point.  Obviously, it is situational and effectively useless if your not running a camo and/or vision set up on your tank and spotting your own targets.  So based on the OP's desired play style (no camo and vents over optics) its effectively counter-productive in their case.  Armorer is less important since re-useable consumables but as confirmed by Fulcrous still of value and better than the remaining gunner specific skills.   

 

7 minutes ago, MatzerMike said:

What about adrenaline rush instead of safe st. on loader? Isn't getting more dpm better than perk, that is probably not so useful?

Sometimes, I have my best farms when I get fucked right at the start and only survive with few HP, because it would force me to play more wisely and camo farm.

Although, the loader specific skills are pretty thin and the usefulness of safe stowage is less than generally thought, the consensus is it is still a mandatory skill.  Not sure adrenaline rush (a full perk skill slot) assigned to provide a modest boost; under very very limited match scenario that occurs once every hundred games, is at all useful.  I would even take intuition over it.  Any skill/perk that relies on you taking damage and/or dieing is frankly extremely dumb.  You will be much better off with general combat support skills or firefighting.

[SaintLaurentius 532]

2 hours ago, MatzerMike said:

What about adrenaline rush instead of safe st. on loader? Isn't getting more dpm better than perk, that is probably not so useful?

Sometimes, I have my best farms when I get fucked right at the start and only survive with few HP, because it would force me to play more wisely and camo farm.

Safe Stowage all the way, if I remember correctly Patton gets ammoracked from the drive wheel. What I didn't remember correctly was my patton crew:

So I have no FF atm and training JOAT, but in my defense I played the tank previous to the SPG changes. Haven't touched the tank after marking it.....

[Hally 126]

JOAT is especially not good on tanks that usually lose the commander if you lose a crew member at all.

[Nuttydave1234 116]

Here is what mine is...please note there are 6 skills, but the 5 are at the bottom, 6 on the crew tab. 

[8_Hussars 348]

3 hours ago, SaintLaurentius said:

So I have no FF atm and training JOAT, but in my defense I played the tank previous to the SPG changes

With the firefighting directive being a mere 2 bonds/match to cover off food use (if the tank even burns) the firefighting skills are even less attractive...

[Archaic_One 1,853]

2 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

With the firefighting directive being a mere 2 bonds/match to cover off food use (if the tank even burns) the firefighting skills are even less attractive...

Yeah, if I want ditch the AFE for food, buying FF for 2 bonds is a no brainer anymore. 

BIA adds 9m of view range and 0.4% to your camo on the M48.

[Fulcrous 2,073]

17 hours ago, SaintLaurentius said:

Fulcruos is onto something, but armorer and clutch-shit seems wasteful to me. Also, FF over camo, if you're planning on running the tank with Food. JOAT is also waste of a crewskill nowadays, cos you cant run without medkit anymore, cos arta.

Soons as I get home, I will post my setup.

ff is 2 bonds. camo directive is 6. the choice is obvious to me when bonds are always a gain as long as you arent shit. i haven't touched the m48 barring other accounts with low crew skills. i suggested clutch because it can help with micro-movements to sidescraping. admittedly i have no idea if it truly helps though as its theory crafting.

@hally... joat is always useful even if commander dies as if you use a small med kit, you just prioritize the commander if you lose more than 1 crew

[simba90 100]

5 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

Yeah, if I want ditch the AFE for food, buying FF for 2 bonds is a no brainer anymore. 

BIA adds 9m of view range and 0.4% to your camo on the M48.

The M48 only burns if your arse is to the red team.

I have never run an AFE in ~450 battles and I have never once regretted it.

 

Also, running the camo directive doesn't take into account the commanders +10% bonus, so you will always run ~2-3% lower camo than if you train the crew for it.