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Okeano

Okeano & Rexxie's guide on where NOT go to on maps (Updated 12/2/15)

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AIRFIELD

Any thoughts on setting up in a TD and sniping from B2 to support the green area in the middle of the map??? ... I have done this successfully on numerous occasions in a JPII and JgTiger with 3K + Damage games.

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AIRFIELD

Any thoughts on setting up in a TD and sniping from B2 to support the green area in the middle of the map??? ... I have done this successfully on numerous occasions in a JPII and JgTiger with 3K + Damage games.

Someone told me you can get up to those hills at B line, I've yet to try it. I've had reasonable success bringing somewhat fast TDs to bottom of B4 and B5 rocks to support middle hill. 

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I've not tried there either, but from map alone seems to have slight more shooting lanes than D2. I found B4, B5 get great side shots if they push around the hills through D6 area or even advance through the "main" path of E6, but you'll have to work the rocks a bit because it's very easy to spot you. Of course those spots also won't work for slower TDs. It's not the most TD friendly map, since long shooting lanes are limited and now well known to most players for them to avoid it.

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I like the B2 spot because it puts you out of spotting range from the enemy and allows you to shoot so long as you have someone to spot for you.

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The thing about military tactic is just that the strategy map can have arrows zig-zagging in every direction and each can come up trumps in the execution depending on a number of variables. Take for instance the red circles which are indicated as "no-nos"; well, I have on occasions carried out the most brilliant of war-winning moves via those same areas.

What I think is, while the "no-no" zones are in the main dangerous, they may be traversed by tankers where the circumstances permit. The panzer forces of the Wehrmacht used the Ardennes forest during the early days of the blitzkrieg at the same time the French & British Expeditionary forces considered the area unsuitable for armor operations. But, in the circumstances, it worked like a charm! So that does say a lot, does it not?

 

Here's the thing ... this is a simulation, a game, not the real world. No amount of mathematical formulation can be factored in to make it so. You can get a decent approximation which loosely applies laws of physics and thats it.

In game you're on a 1000 m x 1000 m map at the largest ... some are smaller. In WWII this was close range. Many engagements were made at over a mile and there were recorded kills at 2.5 miles.

Things like wind, rain, snow, smoke, ice, and mud are not included because its too much for most computers including the server to handle.

The vision/camoflage/spotting mechanics ... Do tanks in real life dissapear in open fields like they have a Romulan cloaking device? No, but here they can and do.

Basics like concentrating firepower and focusing fire on single tanks to eliminate them, defeating in detail, and flanking are all military tactics and assuredly are applicable in WOT, but in WOT you're lucky if you can get pubs to go where you want let alone execute some big master battle plan.

There is Russian bias in the game. Armor is obsoleted by speed and firepower. German tanks are NOT the best. Once you wrap your head around a few of these things and just accept it for what it is ... a game, and realize these are the parameters of the game things will improve for you .... PLUS listening to these guys ... they DO know what they are talking about because they know how to exploit the parameters of the game.

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In game you're on a 1000 m x 1000 m map at the largest ... some are smaller. In WWII this was close range. Many engagements were made at over a mile and there were recorded kills at 2.5 miles.

 

 

 

It's always worth remembering that you should take recorded kill stats from world war 2 with a healthy truckfull of salt.  All forces in the war massively overstated their claimed kills because any engagement that mildly inconvenienced a fighting vehicle, even if it was trivially reclaimed later was a "kill".  (The Soviets claimed roughly three times the number of "kills" of armoured vehicles at Kursk than the Germans even had, for instance)

 

Average combat ranges in world war 2 were also probably quite a lot closer than you think, because forces generally didn't find each other at 2.5 miles, they didn't have the kind of future soldier battlespace integration that we have in WoT, a spotter might give you a direction and distance for an enemy tank, but you still have to actually spot the tank personally in order to range at it and shoot it (and frequently if the ranging shot lands close the crew will bail anyway, which means "yay we killed a tank", even if they get back in when it becomes obvious that the tank isn't going to take that other hit any minute now)

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What I think is, while the "no-no" zones are in the main dangerous, they may be traversed by tankers where the circumstances permit.

 

 

It's not just that the no go zones are dangerous, it's also that they can offer poor tactical position even if the "danger" doesn't materialise.

 

There might not be a dirty great tank destroyer pointing down the valley on Cliff (PS: there is), you might be able to swarm into the enemy's half of the map without being shot to fuck by things you couldn't see.

 

But now you're on lower ground than your opponent who has lots of cover along the cliff edges to use against you and who can reposition freely around the upper ground to strike you from more angles.  You have ceded map control, even if you haven't been shot to bits yet.

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It's always worth remembering that you should take recorded kill stats from world war 2 with a healthy truckfull of salt.  All forces in the war massively overstated their claimed kills because any engagement that mildly inconvenienced a fighting vehicle, even if it was trivially reclaimed later was a "kill".  (The Soviets claimed roughly three times the number of "kills" of armoured vehicles at Kursk than the Germans even had, for instance)

 

Average combat ranges in world war 2 were also probably quite a lot closer than you think, because forces generally didn't find each other at 2.5 miles, they didn't have the kind of future soldier battlespace integration that we have in WoT, a spotter might give you a direction and distance for an enemy tank, but you still have to actually spot the tank personally in order to range at it and shoot it (and frequently if the ranging shot lands close the crew will bail anyway, which means "yay we killed a tank", even if they get back in when it becomes obvious that the tank isn't going to take that other hit any minute now)

 

Very true, many "tank" kills were in fact trucks, artillery tractors, half-tracks, TD's, and/or anything with any kind of armored plating not necessarily tanks in the classical sense. Numbers were inflated for propaganda/morale reasons or simply lies to keep leadership happy. If you read any contemporary sources, most tankers were afraid of towed Anti-tank guns more than anything, because you couldn't see them until after they shot ... and even then they might get off a second round before they could return fire.

I never said most engagements were not made at close range, just that many (especially on the Eastern Front on the Russian Steppes) were at longer distances than WOT battles. A good portion of battles were in fact fought in urban environments which is basically point blank range. Ranges in the French Bocage country were in may cases 300 m or less.

Add to that the fact that during the period of say 1942 to 1944 most Russian, UK, and US tanks were in fact inferior to the German Tiger and Tiger II and were unable to penetrate them frontally at over 1000 m and in some cases less than 500 m or not at all. This meant they either had to flank them to get at the side armor, ambush them within effective range, or call in air/artillery. German tanks also had superior targetting optics which allowed them to shoot accurately at long ranges vs the Allies.

Another fact which I was unaware of until I read Tigers in the Mud, was that according to Carius, the Russians almost invariably stayed buttoned up in their tanks. Not so with the Germans, especially Carius. Most WWII pictures I've seen show the Geman tank commanders in the cuppola, binoculars in hand. Carius would take a Kubelwagon or a motorcycle and recon the area for targets. The two engagements he was most decorated for in fact, where he destroyed 20+ tanks each, he said the Russians were all buttoned up and never saw them coming until it was too late.

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Can someone explain to me. This is place to teach noobs where not to go . Right ??? For love of G*d. Why does some player who are on this forum and have good stats (50% to 53%) are going to this places. Like Cliff (valley ), ice road (forgot the map name) when decider is on the opposite side. This things happens only in low tiar games (5 , 6 and even 8 ) :smiledown:

 

Okeano good work 

 

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Okay, I have a question.

 

On Airfield I usually take my Hellcat to the ridgeline in D9 to provide fire support for the people fighting in the E7 blob.  Is that fine or can I find a better place to park for that purpose?

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Tanks there, even TD's seem to get spotted quite often. There is a bush there and if you park back far enough, you should be able to stay hidden (I tested that spot with 13 90 for our tourney training). I feel that the two platform at E5 and E7 are more effective for fast tanks, but obviously not everyone should go there, holds 2 max I would say. B4 to B6 can be a pain in the ass to the other team with fast camo tanks and knows how to work the covers there. Spots I didn't mark I feel neutral about.

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Evidently you took it wrong... but ohh well.

If I mistook your intentions I apologize, and thank you for your link.

 

I don't remember where I saw or read these things, but I recall one account where the T-34 crews had to resort to ramming Tigers at the Battle of Kursk during one engagement in an attempt to disable them, because they could not pen them and ran out of ammo.

 

Another account where the T-34's were so rough around the edges and the transmissions were so bad they had to knock the levers into place with hammers to get them to engage.

 

On a side note-

The one snippet said how the Panthers had armor prone to spalling and cracking when hit.  I would say these were late war Panthers and at that point they were unable to obtain some of the rare metals like titanium and nickel to create superior alloys found in tanks from earlier in the war.

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OK, dumb questions..... (From a guy that overwatches your red zones)

 

Playing Meds, only.

 

Prokhorovka:  In 6000 games, I've only gone down the west side, at the start.  Does it matter which Spawn for the East Side, and how do you play the east in a T6-10 German Med or Crom/FV4202?

 

 

 

Airfield: Same Mantra, but I've tried the North edge (Yellow), and E7 about 6-7 times.  Got hammed by heavy's fire in E7 each time.  Seems like a heavy tank zone, not a medium/long range fire zone, true?  (Otherwise, it's been 5500 games of covering South Side (Red), to shoot people coming through.  Kinda Sad..)

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I've not played east since the arty nerf. Back when there were 5 arties per side, I'd camp the east map edge at the start to catch any med trying to rush for our arties. I remember losing once in the past few months due to our forest fell, and even then it was very close and was only a loss because my platoon mate rushed in trying to save the pubbies. In general leaving east alone for pubbies to defend have not been a problem so I don't even bother.

E7 is not really TD friendly, unless you're E4 E3 or maybe Foch, but it is medium friendly to some degree. It's in one of the pages here and I talked about playing on the platform. The key is not to try to peek against the heavies unless they just fired. There've been times where I couldn't find opens there and had to relocate. I generally try to work the mid first from the platforms, so I can flank through the mid if needed. That map is generally won or loss at that spot, it's just how it is. If you can't directly fight at the hill you need to be close enough to support it at least. There are some options for crossfire at the rocks towards the north boarder of the map, but they reworked some fire lane for this map in this patch so I'm not entirely sure yet.

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I am curious as to what you suggest for stopping the Malinovka strat I have seen a lot recently, where someone reasonably fast and stealthy drives from the west spawn along the southwest road down into that depression at the south side of the eastern base. Seems to light up the entire base for shots, and I've yet to find a really good approach line to get down there to stop him that doesn't result in getting shot to ribbons by stuff across the field that he lights as he approaches. I've lost count of the number of times I've been 3/4 the way up the hill, only to see nothing at our base but red dots on the mini-map, as everyone who stayed to defend got killed at long range, or overwhelmed by incoming stuff they couldn't see coming, because they had to be hiding behind houses from the long range shots.

 

I suspect that if something that can hull down can get down there first, they might be able to snipe him as he's on his way in, but there doesn't seem much time to get there if you're in something slow and the guy doing it is really fast. Makes the map sides seem quite imbalanced, as the west end of that road is a lot more open before getting down the berm to the water than the east is, so it's much much harder to do that from east to west.

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I've seen people head there on heavy tank at the start to wait for the rush, but I'm not sure how effective it is. It's a change that I don't like about the map. The map already give medium advantage in spotting and taking the hill. The dips just seem to make it even more tank type dependent, and it's not fun knowing you're already at a major disadvantage at the start due to tank class on each team. Competent arties can hit that spot, that's about it. Maybe I'll try pre-camp the spot next time if I see fast mediums that would likely to rush for our dip.

It wouldn't be as big of a problem if your pubs know to just hug the house or rocks and not trying to get the tank in the dip, but alas, pubs.

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