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CraBeatOff

Do you EVEN 90?

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2 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

http://wotreplays.eu/site/4126682#serene_coast-crabeatoff-elc_even_90

This is a replay that nicely highlights the myriad silly bullshit of the ELC EVEN. I open with a "scout run" that would be suicide in most tanks. I outspot an LTTB despite only having 427 moving view range and he dies. I see the T49 coming so i duck into the rock. For a reasonable sized tank that rock is barely adequate cover but for the ELC it's huge. 9 depression works nicely for clipping into the T49 and again I can hide behind the rock. 

With those two dead middle is mine. This is the point in the game that made me select this replay though. I'm sitting 280m away from the FV4202 unspotted and using a laughably small bush to spot the arty, JpE and S1. It's completely silly bullshit. 

After that it's just standard LT brawling aided by having autoloader spike. And a yolo to get an Orliks for bonds.

http://wotreplays.eu/site/4127603#fjords-crabeatoff-elc_even_90

Here is some more silly bullshit. My opener is glorious but only 1 of my 3 bushwankers has any brains. If the other two had positioned correctly the game would have been effectively over by the third minute. Instead i have to drag them and drag them. But this is another game that really showcases what the camo, size and spike can do. Everything is cover and every bush is a spotting bush.

 

Fuck you Udes!

This thing beats the BC12t as best spotter. Have you played it with AP?

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59 minutes ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

@CraBeatOff

nice flip at the end there

:megadoge:

Do a barrel roll.

20 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

Fuck you Udes!

This thing beats the BC12t as best spotter. Have you played it with AP?

Fuck all the udeses! 

No AP so far. I could do it but 760 m/s seems like a burden. Realistically i still make a solid number of credits because...so much spotting and its not a gun that encourages you to take a lot of bad shots...plus the wins. You're either taking high probability snipes or you're in close. Otherwise you sit and spot them out. French autoloaders are my full APCR vice though. And I've got 31mil credits and another 60million in consumables and crewless tanks. If i only average 50k profits instead of 75k profits it's not going to break my bank. If i had to shoot a 2/3rd AP I'd guess 1500 dpg.

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You've sold me on it, Crab... Now just to wait on gaming budget reload, and/or arrival for gold.

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2 hours ago, Errants said:

You've sold me on it, Crab... Now just to wait on gaming budget reload, and/or arrival for gold.

It's a thing...it's really not for everyone but give it a go i guess. It'd be nice if it went in for gold.

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47 minutes ago, CraBeatOff said:

It's a thing...it's really not for everyone but give it a go i guess. It'd be nice if it went in for gold.

Preference of T92 or this?

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58 minutes ago, Ezz said:

Preference of T92 or this?

 

29 minutes ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

T92 has the better combat capacity over the even 90 IMO

but as a scout the even 90 definitely wins hands down

This is genuinely hard. T92 gun is way more comfortable. On paper DOUBLE the dpm. But the results aren't that much better. Alpha is always best. In 5 seconds the T92 does 300dmg, the ELC does 660. This counts for a lot. I have similar scouting results but the way you obtain them is wildly different. Much higher survival in the ELC...It's so easy to hide/dive.

In pubs i think the ELC wins out. The T92 is great in Skirmishes though, where you can more reliably deploy the dpm. 

T92 gets a big advantage on comfort. 507 view and crazy hp/t makes active scouting great. I don't really know. Smylee gets crazy dpg in the T92 but Carbon and i are carrying tons of games in ELC. Neither is strictly better. T92 is easier to use.

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3 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

It's a thing...it's really not for everyone but give it a go i guess. It'd be nice if it went in for gold.

Scouting is my preferred, even if it isn't my strongest class, so it seems very very tasty. I was a hard pass on the T92 until your reviews and recommendations, and have been enjoying it greatly, so I think I can take your advice on the EVEN as well.

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Great use of it’s limited clip in those replays @CraBeatOff. And hats off to you and @CarbonWard for being able to pull 70%WR in a tank like this.

 All this ELC talk has got me fantasising about the old/pre-nerf bis as a tier 6 premium: 

 

Is the hull on the Even even smaller than the bis’ though?

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I fantasize about a tier 8 AMX ELC bis with 288 standard pen and 390 alpha damage. But with awesome gun handling. 10+ degrees of gun depression? And maybe some trollishly angled frontal armor.
Oh well, we can dream.

:notlikethis:

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19 minutes ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

@CraBeatOff after watching that replay that @sr360 posted (the moment at 5:31)  i have to ask.....

How many times have you flipped, or come close to flipping in the even 90 :trump:

It actually sticks to the ground pretty good. 

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I rammed one of these at full speed in my t92.  I took maybe 50 hp of damage.  I nearly wiped him out.  It's that tiny.

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Have they said anything about why the tank isn't available on EU? Was really waiting to get the tank on the light tank special weekend.

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im still not sold :( do you think its worth getting blastet one night less in february? i think about paying it out of my party budget

 

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Personally I only think it's worth it if you really enjoy light tank gameplay. I think it's a little similar to TDs in the manner that the ideal way to play it is to find a bush and play passive. The difference is just how far up the bushes are. Camo is always nice and something worth hanging onto as compared to mediums can't really double bush or solid bush at closer ranges while light tanks can continuosly farm. But on most maps it's not worth more than armour. It's a pretty fun tank to play indeed, but it's not very good. 

Maybe I just don't have the patience and find it too unappealing to not go pewpew whenever I can but to me a tank that isn't outperformed by almost every other class by the exact same player on most maps is a tank that I'm not really going to buy into. Back when the Blackdog was released and this would have been released along with it then yes, I probably would have liked it. Now the use of lights is too limited. It's the same reason I don't like the Strv's. Get Kharkov, Abbey, Pilsen, Windstorm, Erlenberg, El Halluf, Sand River, Airfield, Ruinberg or basically anything that's lane-oriented without real camo abuse abilities and you're so much more crippled to influence your games there than your advantage becomes of influencing the maps that do allow you to sort of excel. I'd even argue that mediums are better for Prokh and Mali since you can direcly control what happens around you. A scout in a bush locks an area down but something that can push can lock it down too. Just not in the same way. 

The point is that the tank is only really worth getting if you enjoy risky passive gameplay. That's where LTs really shine and become a lot of fun. I just personally think that situations are too few to warrant playing them in the current meta

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32 minutes ago, Kolni said:

Personally I only think it's worth it if you really enjoy light tank gameplay. I think it's a little similar to TDs in the manner that the ideal way to play it is to find a bush and play passive. The difference is just how far up the bushes are. Camo is always nice and something worth hanging onto as compared to mediums can't really double bush or solid bush at closer ranges while light tanks can continuosly farm. But on most maps it's not worth more than armour. It's a pretty fun tank to play indeed, but it's not very good. 

Maybe I just don't have the patience and find it too unappealing to not go pewpew whenever I can but to me a tank that isn't outperformed by almost every other class by the exact same player on most maps is a tank that I'm not really going to buy into. Back when the Blackdog was released and this would have been released along with it then yes, I probably would have liked it. Now the use of lights is too limited. It's the same reason I don't like the Strv's. Get Kharkov, Abbey, Pilsen, Windstorm, Erlenberg, El Halluf, Sand River, Airfield, Ruinberg or basically anything that's lane-oriented without real camo abuse abilities and you're so much more crippled to influence your games there than your advantage becomes of influencing the maps that do allow you to sort of excel. I'd even argue that mediums are better for Prokh and Mali since you can direcly control what happens around you. A scout in a bush locks an area down but something that can push can lock it down too. Just not in the same way. 

The point is that the tank is only really worth getting if you enjoy risky passive gameplay. That's where LTs really shine and become a lot of fun. I just personally think that situations are too few to warrant playing them in the current meta

I just can't agree with the bolded portions. It completely changes the game w/r/t camo and positional abuse. And risky? The risk is heavily mitigated by the size and camo. 

Seriously "I think I broked it" to quote @CarbonWard circa 2012

AsFgBS5.jpg?1

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The case for LTs is actually really easy to make, especially at tier 8.

Figure any tier 8 you play, you'll be in tier 10 games at least 60% of the time. Of the rest, you'll be in tier 9 games 75% of the time. So you'll be top tier at best 10% of the time. Except now "top tier" includes a fair amount of straight tier games.

So lets take an "amazing" "broken" premium like the Defender. Tier 9 and 10 tanks might have to 2 2 to pen you, but since they are doing that anyway that "broken" armor isn't really so useful. You are slow, blind, and you have a gun that is derpy as shit. In short, you are relatively useless.

But wait, you lucked into a tier 8 game! OK, so 10% of the time you are OP (unless you are me, my Defender literally doesn't block shit).

 

So now lets take a LT. You are in a tier 10 game. So you have no armor. OK, neither does any other tier 8, no big deal. But you are fast, and can get around the battlefield quickly to take advantage of opportunities (or if you are better than me, create them). Plus you can be useful just zipping around lighting shit for clueless retards on your team.

But wait, you got stuck in a tier 8 game! Aw man, you just fucked your team! Oh wait, that is only true on a handful of maps and even on the really bad funnel maps you can generally make something happen unless you get a team of truly special window licking morons. And if your entire team is dead in 3 minutes you would have lost in anything, so you can't really blame the LT for that.

 

So to recap - Heavies are only good when top tier (at tier 8), mediums are kinda bad all round (at tier 8), LTs are better than HTs and MTs when down-tiered, and with some care are fine when top tier, and TDs are a mixed bag (mobile ones with large guns are good simply because you add another tier IX or X gun to your team even if it is on a garbage chassis comparatively speaking).

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LTs fail if played passively even on maps like Prok or Malinovka. They are the only class that on Lakeville, for example, are able to do 5k dmg (spotting) to the enemy team in the first 1-2 minutes

You need to enjoy spotting and letting others do the dmg. Instead of using the green tanks as meatshields you use them as guns. The playstyle is completly different from the other classes and so the positions they use. For example on El Halluf you go mid instead of going the 4 brawling squares in the north.

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The ELC EVEN 90 is now available to purchase early for those who have a premium account. Play one battle and you'll get an offer to buy the tank.

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9 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

I just can't agree with the bolded portions. It completely changes the game w/r/t camo and positional abuse. And risky? The risk is heavily mitigated by the size and camo. 

I might have been unclear. On any of those maps I mentioned (short of possibly Sand River as the LT mobility to quickly control the south is something I didn't consider while writing) a light tank is either stuck playing one of the more unimportant parts of the map or simply being outperformed by other classes. That's where my issue lies with the light tanks. 

 

Go El Halluf south spawn, 5 T9s and 10 T8s. I just don't see a way where the LT will actively contribute more than others because of lack of armour, lacking penetration and alpha means that you won't be able to engage anything without teammates ahead of you in the northwest, and the odds are that the actual contribution in damage from that light was redundant anyway. So what other plays are there? The northwest is everything on this map and LTs are the class with the absolute least power to influence it. All it takes is one TD camping base which means that the rush down to the small city starts to there and ends there as you're pushing up hill and into crossfires. Middle plays are also the same, sorta works early but you're completely committed and the only way to progress from there is to rely on your team winning somewhere else or hoping that the area is uncontested regardless if you have a bush or not to stay unspotted since you're stuck there. On this map I'm pretty sure I would outperform the BC12t or HWK12 in a Mutz, FV4202, M4A1 Rev or M46 KR 9/10 times even in T10 MM. Losing the ability to directly impact the most important part of the map is personally why I put El Halluf. LT beach yolos from north generally work out pretty well though since you're down before TDs can get shots and you have a much better progression up into the base, but it's still not worth giving up a gun in the north for in my opinion. 

Ruinberg's the same. I don't know if the EU meta is different as I've seen some NA streamers still fare okay-ish playing the field/village from south but for us it's just an autoaccepted loss of the flank 75% of the time. You need something that can play the city. Meds can do that, HTs can do that, TDs can do that. LTs can do it too but trading well becomes double the struggle.

Literally any play a light tank can do on Abbey a medium can do just as well if not better, turret armour and more HP goes a much longer way. You're mobile enough to contest 8 line for vision regardless as the TDs are too slow to catch mediums, or anything with a big gun at all in general. The one exception is being able to spot the TDs from the Abbey into the south base on the outer path facing there without getting spotted, and then you're the only one able to shoot it anyway. 

Airfield is a trading map regardless of where you play. B line play on rocks is too risky and you're stuck after doing it, so it goes out the window. 

I have arguments for all the other maps too, with Sand River being an oversight on my end. 

On maps like Redshire, Muro, Steppes, and even an Overlord layout type where your camo won't lock things down directly but prevent unpunished pokes is where LTs really shine to me. Where the engagement ranges are 400 meters and your camo actually lets you move up unspotted unlike other targets even against VR specced tanks. There's just not enough of those maps or scenarios in the games current meta to really warrant it to me if winning is everything. I'll always be better off in a medium where I can simply just punch through by brute force and directly impact my games. 

Regarding Prokh I'm saying it because while 1 line to contest since the middle falls without it, it's the one area where LTs outperform other classes since they can move up much further. And it's already biased from one side, and it takes one yolotard for it to break. We might not see eye to eye on this, but I'm not going to let my teammates make the decision of how good my game is going to be. I will always prefer a potent gun and relative armour over pseudo armour (mobility+size combo) simply because I can control it much better. 

 

And of course LT gameplay is risky, that's like the main reason to play them. You take bigger risks but you also reap the rewards when doing it well. The fun comes from that :doge: 

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