Renault G1 or the G1R and oh my goddess, what have they done...

[Madner Kami 405]

So, out of shere boredom I decided to complete a few low tier tanks with that nagging green button underneath them and I began with the french medium line leading to the G1R, because I still had the H35 since ages immemorial. H35 offers a smooth experience. A bit slow, armor works out with the special matchmaking, guns are decent like all low tier french guns, well almost all but more to that in a few sentences. Same for the S35, except a problem of that entire branch already creeps up: Nothing of importance carries over. The S35 has no engines, no radios and no guns pre-researched and is possibly the worst offender in that particular regard, but at least the stock-gun is still workable, with liberal application of premium ammo and with just 265 XP for the first gun upgrade, you can get there even without using gold or suffering all too much, but the line's problem already gets in your face. Once fully upgraded, the tank is actually pretty decent. Armor still works out if top tier, the guns are not exactly punchy but penetrate well and offer good stats in most regards, though the tank is having trouble getting to top speed, but it gets there, eventually. Still a reasonably good experience to play, especially if you know how to reverse side-scrape.

Then comes the SARL42. Your armor is entirely worthless now. The engine and radios carry over from the S35 and your mobility is thus similar to the S35. It's a bit sluggish, but not painful and having 710m radio range, while not really doing much for you, certainly doesn't hurt. But here are the guns. The 47mm SA37 is a bit of a schizophrenic gun, just like on the B1-line, where it's the primary reason that the B1 has limited matchmaking. It's a powerful gun when top tier, but it gets problematic when you are mid tier (T5 match) and entirely useless when being low tier (T6 match). You are faced with two choices. Go for the 75mm and turret upgrade or go for the alternative 47mm SA37 amélioré gun. It's faster to research the first 75mm and the turret, but that is a trap. The 47mm amélioré is the gun to go for on this tank and although it offers no premium ammo choice, the base 106 penetration are more than reasonable enough unless you face OIs. The second 75mm is certainly an alternative, but it's much like the 75mm on the russian T-34. The lower caliber gun is just that much better if you know what you are doing. The grind on this tank overall isn't smooth, although 2400 XP are easy to make with premium account and good play, but a new player might already hit something like a wall here. But a little bit of persistence should be required of new players, imo and the tank works thanks to it's excellent 47mm gun under the same conditions where the T-34 one tier up does. The alck of a premium shell is a bit of a bummer if you are lowtier, but hey, you'll get oneshot most of the time anyways, by anything that has the armor to hold up against you.

But here comes the deal-breaker of the branch, probably the worst deal-breaker in the game, if you ask me: G1 Renault. The tank isn't slow, but too slow for a medium and since none of the engines carry over... You're fucked from the get go, but it gets worse. The tank shares the top engine of the G1 BDR and what costs you 1950XP on the G1B, costs you 3650 XP on the G1R. You might think, that this isn't such a big deal, given the G1B is a heavy and the G1R is a medium, but they both weight almost the same when maxed out and the G1B has a better hp/t ratio stock... Well, so you have to grind more to get the best out of your limited mobility, so at least the gun is good enough, right? Wrong. You are stuck with the crap 75mm from the SARL42, as you have to research the turret to mount the better 75mm gun. Well, "better". The gun is crap. It offers 100mm penetration on regular ammo and 129 penetration on your premium ammo, which is about as much as the regular penetration of every other 75mm gun on tier 5. Yes, it is that garbage. But it gets worse. To fit that gun, you have to trade in your reasonably armored and highly sloped turret, for a barn made of octagonally aligned wood. So not just is the "top gun" crap, you also have to grind XP with an even shittier gun and have to lessen the abilities of your tank to get that minor upgrade. "But it has a third gun!", I hear you say. Yes, yes it does, but the gun is crap as well. It's a 105mm howitzer that is comparable to all the other T5-equipable howitzer in most every regard, except that it has the worst rate of fire of all the T5 howitzers. Plus you have to grind the turret with the complete garbage gun, to then grind the XP with a slightly less garbage gun but a much worser turret to fit that gun that is garbage as well. Funtimes ensue for everyone coming into this line and in particular completely new players.

Oh but it gets worse. You don't believe me? Well, you know what carriers over to the ARL44, once you somehow managed to get through the 35k XP-grind to the ARL44 without quitting the game? Engines? Nope, though at least the top engine gets reused on the ARL V39, as that is totally something people should be looking forward to, when they join the game. Radios? Nope, not one, not to any tank in the entire tree. But certainly one of the guns, right? Nope, not one either. So after having gone through all that, you are faced with a completely and literally entirely stock ARL44. A T6 heavy with a shitty looking stock turret, bad stock mobility, bad stock radio and a 76mm gun from T5 medium tanks. Superawesomefuntimes.

So what exactly were they thinking when they brought in that line? It connects to nothing and is a bad choice in terms of playability. A completely new player coming into the game and going along that route because s/he doesn't know any better has certainly a high chance of leaving the game in frustration at either the T5 or the T6. Lowtier balancing overall is something that needs dire looking at. I know balancing is off the whack across all tiers, but the game is clearly having trouble getting new blood into the community and retaining these new players, but how the fuck on Earth, are people supposed to stay, when they are presented with lemons like this? Seriously, WTF?!

[Vampiresbane 4]

Looking at the tech tree as a whole, one has to wonder if they plan on making a full medium line to the 30b. 

https://tanks.gg/techtree/france

Once they connect tier 5 to tier 9, they might fix some of those issues.  Then again, they might not because reasons. 

[leggasiini 1,562]

Most pointless branch in the game. Literally.

At least Churchill GC unlocks a gun that can be used later on that line (which arguably night be useful cus alpha) and it gets extra points for its shittyness alone so it is a great masochist tank to 3 mark. The French branch doesnt even offer that. G1 R is bad, but its not complete mega trash like some other tanks.

[FavreFan4ever 281]

WG just doesn't care about the French line. They've half-assed everything recently, from the 30b "rebalance" to the completely unnecessary (and thus, never played) low-tier medium minibranch. WG wonders why the French tree is so unpopular, while failing to realize that none of the tanks are useful in competitive play. Think about it- the French tree has no tier 6 medium, the 50 100 died with the influx of Defender/Liberte/Patriot, and maybe only the Batchat is useful in tier X battles anymore.

I seem to remember reading that WG wanted to introduce a full French medium line, then decided not to because of a "lack of suitable candidates" (while then introducing the M4 Rev shortly thereafter).

 

[MagicalFlyingFox 1,015]

how is the 50B not 'useful'?

[FavreFan4ever 281]

Better players than me can make it work, but I'm loathe to take it out in a corridor meta combined with STRV's that it's 120 can't overmatch. I'll also admit to not being in touch with the competitive landscape, other than seeing posts with 10 Obj. 268V4's per side.

[Deus__Ex__Machina 988]

 

[Archaic_One 1,853]

Look how long it took them to straighten out the British lines, and the British have actually won a couple of wars with actual real tanks. 

The french line is a birds nest full of ugly ducklings, with a damned good tier X medium, a pretty good unicum pub stomper tier X heavy, and a bunch of train wrecks and aborted attempts at other lines.  The BC 12t requires over 600K XP to elite and its a tier 7 hiding in a tier 8 body (just for a giggle compare it side by side the the T-71).  Every one of the french TDs is in the bottom half of TDs at tier and a couple of them are close to worst overall tank in tier.  Oh, and they gave a clicker a fucking auto-loader.

¯\_(ツ)_/

[Necrophore 143]

5 hours ago, FavreFan4ever said:

I seem to remember reading that WG wanted to introduce a full French medium line, then decided not to because of a "lack of suitable candidates" (while then introducing the M4 Rev shortly thereafter).

Lack of candidates is a weak excuse when you only need to fill three holes and you're willing to use foreign tank hulls. Put the Rev at tier 8 and the Egyptian AMX/M4 hybrid at tier 6, add tier 7 captured Panther, and presto, a connected line.

The G1R with the ARL 42 turret could also have filled in somewhere.

[ThomChen114 291]

Looking back to them announcing these French tanks in patch 9.7 preview, they seem to just barely glance over the low tier tanks. All they could say about these was that they were alternate lines to go and that the Somua S35, SARL 42, and G1 R are "more dynamic" than current vehicles.

At the time, those "less dynamic" current vehicles were the D2, B,1& BDR G1B, and the AMX 38, AMX 40, & ELC AMX (RIP).

If by less dynamic in that they had limited playstyles and options on how to play them, sure...
The medium-to-heavy trio were decently armored but were better in support roles, either with the B1's mini gun (multi-gun mechanics pls), or the BDR's 90mm.
The AMX series starts with relatively well-armored light tanks that could tank surprisingly well, then flips that to a fast go-kart with a 90mm gun.

I think WG overuses the term dynamic to describe new tanks.

[lavawing 497]

5 hours ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

how is the 50B not 'useful'?

Template matchmaking means you get matched against IS-7s and Super Conqs while being toptier, in maps about as spacious as your backyard. Topkek more like.

[MagicalFlyingFox 1,015]

1 hour ago, lavawing said:

Template matchmaking means you get matched against IS-7s and Super Conqs while being toptier, in maps about as spacious as your backyard. Topkek more like.

We were talking about competitive meta.

 

The combination of speed and clip potential still makes it the better Autoloading heavy in most maps. You are going to be using more 50Bs than Krans or T57s. 

STRV's armour is a little overhyped. You should be able to hit one in 2 slightly different directions and you will always have some guns able to pen it anyway. The sides at any angle will be penned and you will track it too.

 

268 4s have made the meta worse for it but it is still able to fulfil its previous role. 

 

[Assassin7 4,347]

50B is still a damn good tank and still gets plenty of use in CW.

Besides the batchat, the other good tanks in the french line are the 13 90 (literally best T9 light tank and IMO best light tier for tier in the game), ELC (unless its terribad since the change? Havent seen any complaints).

30B is debatably good, ARL is decent when elite and got frequently used last time I played T6 CW at least. FCM is still (imo) the best pref MM tank in the game. 

Everything else ranges between meh and decent. (E.g the 12t and 13 75 are both decent but not stand out in any way, BDR is good with its alpha but otherwise unremarkable, 50 100 got powercreeped to shit)

[Deliberate 51]

50B is still good, Batchat is still great, 13 105 is fun as balls, so is the 30B

 

French tier 10s are pretty nice. Hell, they'd be better than the Americans if it weren't for the Patton

[FavreFan4ever 281]

@Assassin7

I haven't touched my ELC since the LT rebalance, except for one training room battle.

-Mobility has been nerfed (mostly acceleration)

-Hp got nerfed (lol it's 320 now, IIRC- say hello to getting oneshot by 122s 100% of the time instead of 50%)

-Both guns are weak choices, you either get a 75mm with 129 gold pen and 110 alpha (although you do get a rotating turret) or a nerfed 90mm with even less dpm than before and 120/170 pen. Workable, sure, but it's more like a TD with a LT gun instead of a LT with a TD gun.

-You maintain your VR and camo, which is nice, but in return you sacrifice the fun factor that was zooming around the maps, giggling like a 12-yr old. I wish that WG had simply up-tiered the ELC bis and called it a day.

 

Also, if anyone actually knows where to shoot a STRV frontally with a <120mm gun (w/o HEAT), I'd love to know. Hours of staring at tanks.gg has yet to provide more than a couple pixels worth aiming at.

 

[nabucodonsor 461]

I don't really see  many 50bs in competitive meta. Even form videos on Youtube of Fame, Kazna, Goin they do have them often. Generally you would rather bring 907s, 5As, 268v4s, Types, maybe the occasional t57 for Ensk. Aside from Prok or Malinovka I do not think they are very useful as they cant really push and if you want a long range supporting tank you can use  a Strv that can also lock a flank if hid well.

Practically for CW only the Bat is used.

[Assassin7 4,347]

@FavreFan4ever for the STRV there is a commanders hatch on the left side towards the rear of the tank, when looking at it frontally, that is technically pennable. But yeah it is still pixels. Otherwise no there is nothing.

[hazzgar 725]

5 hours ago, FavreFan4ever said:

@Assassin7

I haven't touched my ELC since the LT rebalance, except for one training room battle.

-Mobility has been nerfed (mostly acceleration)

-Hp got nerfed (lol it's 320 now, IIRC- say hello to getting oneshot by 122s 100% of the time instead of 50%)

-Both guns are weak choices, you either get a 75mm with 129 gold pen and 110 alpha (although you do get a rotating turret) or a nerfed 90mm with even less dpm than before and 120/170 pen. Workable, sure, but it's more like a TD with a LT gun instead of a LT with a TD gun.

-You maintain your VR and camo, which is nice, but in return you sacrifice the fun factor that was zooming around the maps, giggling like a 12-yr old. I wish that WG had simply up-tiered the ELC bis and called it a day.

 

Also, if anyone actually knows where to shoot a STRV frontally with a <120mm gun (w/o HEAT), I'd love to know. Hours of staring at tanks.gg has yet to provide more than a couple pixels worth aiming at.

 

ELC is a tier lower effectively so complaining about less hp is silly

[FavreFan4ever 281]

1 hour ago, hazzgar said:

ELC is a tier lower effectively so complaining about less hp is silly

Whoopee, you no longer fight tier 8s so there goes 20% of your hp! Let's not forget that you only had 400 do begin with, now anything packing a 100mm or higher has a reasonable chance to oneshot you with a moderately high roll.

For reference, you have only 20 more hp than the AMX 40 at tier four, and 280 less than the AMX 12t at tier 6. There's a lack of consistent hp scaling that means that the ELC is seriously at a disadvantage compared to light tanks in other tiers.

A hp nerf by itself isn't so bad, but the ELC was heavily nerfed in all three major areas: survivability, mobility, and damage capability. Simply put, it's a shadow of its former self.

[hazzgar 725]

9 hours ago, FavreFan4ever said:

Whoopee, you no longer fight tier 8s so there goes 20% of your hp! Let's not forget that you only had 400 do begin with, now anything packing a 100mm or higher has a reasonable chance to oneshot you with a moderately high roll.

For reference, you have only 20 more hp than the AMX 40 at tier four, and 280 less than the AMX 12t at tier 6. There's a lack of consistent hp scaling that means that the ELC is seriously at a disadvantage compared to light tanks in other tiers.

A hp nerf by itself isn't so bad, but the ELC was heavily nerfed in all three major areas: survivability, mobility, and damage capability. Simply put, it's a shadow of its former self.

Yes but still a tier lower. Dropping tank a tier is huge. Yes elc is less fun and comfortable but for wining games it may even be better. 

[Sidus_Preclarum 381]

To make it even worse for the G1R, it has the same bloody retarded crew setup as the T-34 (Commander is gunner, and there's a radioman), so you can't even use it as a crew trainer for the AMX 30s. I ended up using the SARL, which is suprisingly fun (used the 75mm) (and apparently ended up being the leader of the EU  WG  ranking for the tank…)

 

Also, well done, WG : buffing the Ballon de Rugby and the ARL, but not the 65t, wow.