Wheeled Light Tanks/ AFVs

[Action 23]

So the rumors are confirmed. WG is implementing wheeled vehicles into the game. I, as an excessive light player am pretty happy about this so far (also because french) but it seems to come with some caviats.

Just watched quickies video from Gamescom were he answers some questions from some develloper and it seems, while having very good mobility, the new lights will have bad view range and even worse guns than regular lights to push them in an "active scouting role". Not too happy about that tbh because recent map changes and the trend to tunnel maps pretty much takes away all room for active scouting. Also we dont know anything about camo values (will they keep camo on the move just as regular lights?)

All this is obviously subject to change and when WG says, they want to release them early next year im hoping for summer if it doesnt get scrapped beforehand.

Thoughts? Ideas? Guncars you want to see? Does the game benefit from dedicated active scouts? how to 'track' them? Do noobs have to go to driving school to learn 3 point turning? Is Murazor still getting semen via IV because he cant suck all the Ds at once?

 

 

[Errants 425]

Man, if only the video wasn't from QB...

[mati_14 129]

Just now, Errants said:

Man, if only the video wasn't from QB...

What's the big deal? I can get you dislike when he talks about ''how to improve'' but he's IMO probably the most informative WoT YT

[Balthazars 210]

I don't get why WG seems to think that low-VR means you are effective as an active scout. High VR is required for both active and passive scouting to try and burn through camo, especially when there is a lot of bushes in the way. If you have low VR and trying to active scout, you have to take more risks and get closer to enemy tanks to light them through bushes. If they have poor VR then that would seem to defeat that purpose.

Interestingly the official WG announcement trailer seems to suggest that they will have good guns, not bad ones. Will have to see I suppose.

[Ham_ 434]

1 hour ago, Balthazars said:

I don't get why WG seems to think that low-VR means you are effective as an active scout. High VR is required for both active and passive scouting to try and burn through camo, especially when there is a lot of bushes in the way. If you have low VR and trying to active scout, you have to take more risks and get closer to enemy tanks to light them through bushes. If they have poor VR then that would seem to defeat that purpose.

Interestingly the official WG announcement trailer seems to suggest that they will have good guns, not bad ones. Will have to see I suppose.

Worse then normal lights.

In this case its an exception, these tanks are absurdly fast, literally whole new positions you probably can't even reach with a light tank at the moment.

[Haswell 2,399]

Things WG said they'd do and still haven't done:
-sprem ammo rebalance
-crew skill overhaul
-unified economy
-"2.0"

Things WG said they wouldn't do and still did anyway:
-no tier 10 meds
-no tier 10 TDs
-no tier 10 arty
-no tier 10 lights
-no tanks after X period (1980? 1990? They kept pushing the date back anyways.)
-no tanks with smoothbore guns (so they put rifled guns onto tanks that should have smoothbore)
-no nerfing prem tanks
-no shitty prem tanks that are worse than completely stock contemporaries
-no OP prem tanks that are better than fully upgraded contemporaries
-no reselling pre-order tanks
-no shitty clam wars mechanics and crapaigns
-no wheeled AFVs

[Ham_ 434]

Patch 1.2, French Wheeled Tanks

Patch 1.3:

 

[Mikosah 65]

I have a hard time seeing how AFVs are going to fit into the meta unless some massive changes take place. Let's suppose the AFVs have low pen but fantastic DPM, so that they can aggressively circle TDs and heavies. Neato, just one problem- the current maps aren't going to allow that tactic until the very late game. Otherwise you roll into a corridor filled with hostiles and have no room to maneuver. And how will AFVs handle the current physics? If they actually try to maneuver like they should to pursue the active role, they'll be flipped on their back in no time. Unless the maps become much more open and large, the whole concept seems impractical.

Mind you, I still have nostalgia for the old-school McNugget Chaffee with the T37 turret that regularly participated in tier 10 games. The one whose purpose was to passive scout in the early game and utterly humiliate high tier heavies in the late game. If WG said that the idea was to bring back that sort of gameplay, I would have been overjoyed. But so long as everyone is bunched together in corridors, I don't see it working. And for the class to have poor view range just seems stupid. They already gimped the light tanks, and now they want the AFVs to be even more gimped? It doesn't make sense.

[Assassin7 4,353]

I was literally just discussing this with irl friends on facebook. So im just gonna copy paste my thoughts here:

As for wheeled vehicles, eh. I dont think theres a roll for them. They'll either be gimped light tanks, or they will make light tanks irellevent. Both of which are retarded, or they'll all be low tier which is what I suspect because honestly I feel that them coming up with ideas of how to make a wheeled vehicle be somewhat balanced against any tank at tier 8-10 would be rediculously unhistorical.

 I havent looked into anything whatsoever other than "wheeled vehicles are coming" but based on my knowledge of the game and wheeled vehicles in the WW2 era I just think they're gonna be more of a dumb gimmik without actually bringing any longterm positive inclusion for the game

Im thinking about it, and maybe the Puma could fit around tier 6ish. But what would it do? I cant see what it would possibly do over something like a Cromwell or a Type 64 or basically any other light tank really. They can make it go 90kph but I feel that would instantly make it broken. Like, its not that I dont want them to add them, I just dont see a niche that they would fill so I feel its kinda pointless to add them

As per the OP mentioning stats, it seems my prediction is already gonna be true and they'll just be gimped light tanks that have some more zoom zoom. I hadnt looked at anything whatsoever besides "wheeled vehicles are coming" when writing that comment lol. 

[hazzgar 730]

So even worse pen, worse view range than current lights that already struggle and all that for speed on small corridor maps? Yeah great idea.

[Haswell 2,399]

31 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

So even worse pen, worse view range than current lights that already struggle and all that for speed on small corridor maps? Yeah great idea.

It wouldn't be too bad if they add in a PVE mode with objectives like AW.

[8_Hussars 348]

15 hours ago, Balthazars said:

I don't get why WG seems to think that low-VR means you are effective as an active scout.

This goes back to the Light tank apocalypse.  In WG's world light tank view range (with Optics) was balanced around medium tank view range (with vents).  Thus, supposedly carving out/preserving the light tank role (e.g. not medium with camo cushion; by nerfing view range, gun handling, and pen) while also preserving the medium tank role as damage dealers.   WG Balance (TM)

[TheMarine0341 4,972]

Personally I wish they'd have a capped VR regardless of crew skills/equipment at 445. You still need maximum VR to actually, you know, scout. Just cap the damn things starting at tier 8 at 445, and go from there

[8_Hussars 348]

I wish they modeled radio range properly preserving a little more "fog of war" (like you see at low tiers).  This would give a little "scouts" (and some other tanks) more purpose other than pure view range while possibly opening up the more or less useless RO skills.  All the while being a stealth nerf to arty, so they need to move within radio range and keep up with the battle. 

[Action 23]

More bits from the Armoured Patrol Gamescom Q&A

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2018/08/23/qa-summary-of-gamescom-stream-22-august/

Quote

• Wheeled vehicles, not all, but some are gonna have a mechanism where a certain set of wheels will be retracted with a press of a button (similar to Siege Mode), which changes the way your vehicle handles.

For instance:

Mode 1 – Vehicle moves at its regular speed.

Mode 2 – Vehicle moves at a higher speed, but doesn’t turn as quickly.

• Wheeled vehicles will be classified as Light Tanks and will range between Tier V-X. The reason behind the Tier range is that wheeled vehicles in the 30-40s weren’t meant to fight tanks IRL, which means that the odds of having the Lanchester return as a regular vehicle are rather low. :<

• The firepower of the wheeled vehicles will be slightly worse compared to regular Lights, in a way that they’ll hardly stand a chance in a 1v1. However, their speed can be advantageous to outrun/circle around the opponent.

Their view range will also be slightly worse compared to regular Lights.

• Just like a car, when a wheeled vehicle gets “tracked”, it’ll still be able to move with the majority of its wheels intact. However, it won’t move as quickly.

Hence, as described by Mr. Andrey, wheeled vehicles are meant to be aggressive scouts “that’ll be really hard to stop”.

The only thing he worries about atm is how “pesky” they’re going to be. (For obvious reasons)

• There will be a public test (most likely sandbox) specifically for the wheeled vehicles before they’ll hit the regular testserver.

 

cant say im too hyped about this right now... dont think it will work out too well

[Assassin7 4,353]

5 hours ago, Action said:

Wheeled vehicles will be classified as Light Tanks and will range between Tier V-X. The reason behind the Tier range is that wheeled vehicles in the 30-40s weren’t meant to fight tanks

Wouldn't that make them more suited for tier 1-5 and not 5-10?

This is why I thought they'd be pointless ffs

[TAdoo87 505]

9 hours ago, Action said:

cant say im too hyped about this right now... dont think it will work out too well

 

9 hours ago, Action said:

Hence, as described by Mr. Andrey, wheeled vehicles are meant to be aggressive scouts “that’ll be really hard to stop”

Ultimate tier 10 suicide scouts. Just what we needed in this game. 

[Madner Kami 405]

Quote

• The firepower of the wheeled vehicles will be slightly worse compared to regular Lights, in a way that they’ll hardly stand a chance in a 1v1. However, their speed can be advantageous to outrun/circle around the opponent.
• Their view range will also be slightly worse compared to regular Lights.

Hence, as described by Mr. Andrey, wheeled vehicles are meant to be aggressive scouts “that’ll be really hard to stop”.

The only thing he worries about atm is how “pesky” they’re going to be. (For obvious reasons)

Then Mr. Andrey doesn't know what this game is currently about. When they rebalanced the light tanks for +2/-2, they emphasized mobility, lowered their viewrange and nerfed their guns. Barely anybody is playing light tanks in a successful manner now. I loved playing lights, I don't play them anymore. And now they want to bring in a group of vehicles, which are even more extreme in the three regards they rebalanced light tanks to? They are even faster, have even lower viewrange and they have even weaker guns? What's the reasoning behind this? What exactly is it, that is convincing them that this course, the very course that makes playing light tanks unattractive in the first place, will be something that makes this class of vehicle "pesky" to anyone other than the player commanding that vehicle? Come on WarGaming.

[hazzgar 730]

So we basically get siege mode light tanks that either cant turn or are as fast as regular lights with even worse guns and view range. 

 

This also shows how bad WG is at understanding their game becasue it is clear they seriously overvalue getting to key positions first. Yeah this seems like a great idea on paper but NOT ON THE MAPS WE HAVE.

[Copeyhagen 41]

Look shit imo and I play mostly lights. Just no

[OperatorError 264]

See guys, WG DOES know a thing or two about their own game!

Giving these lights bad view range will make them fit in to the meta on Mines, Himmels, Paris, Ensk, Mountain Pass...Brilliant!!!

[Jesse_the_Scout 2,098]

Just WG dangling more new tanks because they're too chickenshit to take the risks necessary to actually save their game.

[nabucodonsor 461]

From the same announcement (also from TAP): 

• They’re not planning to add any more SPGs due to the players loathing them.

Nevertheless, it is likely that arty will be seen as a part of the game forever and will therefore stay, no matter what. (cries in Swiss German)

Unfortunately no exact details on the limitation of SPGs per battle were given, as it was quite common to take lots of artillery into battle midst the world wars. (Can’t tell if he’s right)

 

[hazzgar 730]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:33 AM, nabucodonsor said:

From the same announcement (also from TAP): 

• They’re not planning to add any more SPGs due to the players loathing them.

Nevertheless, it is likely that arty will be seen as a part of the game forever and will therefore stay, no matter what. (cries in Swiss German)

Unfortunately no exact details on the limitation of SPGs per battle were given, as it was quite common to take lots of artillery into battle midst the world wars. (Can’t tell if he’s right)

 

 

Are they still using historical accuracy as an excuse? Seriously? 

[tajj7 560]

If they can makes these like AFVs from AW then they can potentially be super fun, to me they look like they are going to have the hyper mobility WG hinted the light tank rebalance would bring but didn't quite materialise aside maybe the t-100 lt.  

Yeh maps are shit, but the newer ones seem to be moving into a more open direction and less centred around corridors and brawling. 

Overall I am feeling a little more positive about the game's directions since Murazor's firing, we seem to be getting more open maps, less BS OP armoured vehicles, tier 10s that come out that are not OP as AF but also not crap, new prems that are decently balanced and talk about further restrict arty, fixing the 3-5-7 and re-working prem ammo. If they can deliver these then that will be a massive improvement.

As for these wheeled vehicles we will see, the view range and gun comments are worrying considering how mediocre light firepower is and how hard it is to currently dig the base camping TD bots out of their spots, less view range is not going to help when you can barely spot an STRV before proxy range with tanks that have near 500m view range. 

Their comment about them worrying these tanks could be 'annoying' worries me also, that sounds like 'Steve the IS7 driver' pandering to me, because 'annoying' in reality means someone outplays me in them and I don't like my big easy mode heavy tank challenged. So we can expect to see them appear on sandbox like the high tier lights, be quite good and then get completely gimped before release because some Russian bot heavy drivers got circled and whined.