Even QB?!

[nabucodonsor 461]

So I was browsing Youtube and I stumbled on this:

Well he sort of put into numbers what we said. If WG analized their data they should have fired Murazor with a cannon as WG downfall started with him.

I still dont like his fake gentleman attitude but the data he "collected" and the research he did is interesting. It also points out WG's agenda and how they do things. Nice to know their marketing department is great (not for the game though).

Thoughts?

[kolni 69,670,872]

On the other hand there's also the things they made well:

Frontline

SH (the old version, not new)

Credit Boosters

Italian/PL tank balance (didn't break the game)

a bunch of premiums that didn't break the game

 

 

the standard for quality wot content is literally it not being gamebreaking

 

[Deus__Ex__Machina 989]

34 minutes ago, Kolni said:

On the other hand there's also the things they made well:

Frontline

a bunch of premiums that didn't break the game

A: war gaming didn't make frontline 

B: lol

[DirtyACE7 514]

1 hour ago, Kolni said:

On the other hand there's also the things they made well:

Frontline

SH (the old version, not new)

Credit Boosters

Italian/PL tank balance (didn't break the game)

a bunch of premiums that didn't break the game

 

 

the standard for quality wot content is literally it not being gamebreaking

 

Now, how to convince WG that they need to actually do things that are positive for the game? All too often they seem to desperately want to take two steps back for every one they take forward.

[Ham_ 434]

I hope recent trends in the industry (EA and Fallout flopping hard, God of War, RDR2, and Cdprojektred killing it with great game design) make companies realize quality leads to profit.

I have that fuzzy feeling that things are probably only going to get better for games for at least a short while until companies get lazy again.

[nabucodonsor 461]

2 hours ago, Kolni said:

On the other hand there's also the things they made well:

Frontline

SH (the old version, not new)

Credit Boosters

Italian/PL tank balance (didn't break the game)

a bunch of premiums that didn't break the game

 

 

the standard for quality wot content is literally it not being gamebreaking

 

Which are overshadowed by the russian duo (268v4, 430U), SConq, OP premiums, arta being annoying, russian bias, crap maps, MM ect. 

But I agree the best thing for WoT are non gamebreaking things and the best thing about the Polish tree is that they have weakspots one of the things that made this game great. And not mini weakspots or in Type 5 fashion, but true weakspots even for standard pen.

 

 

 

A thing that amuses me is that either QB was hit by the proverbial apple or he always knew about this stuff (not the server population thing, but of how broken the game is) and he is finally saying what he really thinks. 

I believe it is the second option and if true, it makes me wonder if WG approved the video before release and so if they knew about it, or if he noticed a drop in viewers which pushed him to a change of style. Again if I had to bet I'd go for the latter.

We will see anyway in 2019 with WG's announced balance changes

[Madner Kami 405]

3 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

I believe it is the second option and if true, it makes me wonder if WG approved the video before release and so if they knew about it, or if he noticed a drop in viewers which pushed him to a change of style. Again if I had to bet I'd go for the latter.

https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/quickybabytv

https://socialblade.com/twitch/user/quickybaby

Make of it, what you will. Mail-order brides ain't cheap, that much is certain.

[hazzgar 730]

I know someone at WG and while he is a very smart guy I think the believes the ingame bs so he says some stuff that makes my head scratch like "Unicums don't know more than bad players because unicum x likes this shitty tank we all know is shit (wotlabs would agree)" and they basically think they know what they are doing. 

 

Really all they need to do is reverse armorcreep + bring back weakspots (people penning you but not firing gold is less frustrating) and give the middle finger to 3/5/7. This will slow the drain. Reversing it is impossible, the damage is done but those 2 things and the game would not frustrate the fuck out of people. 

Also do exciting stuff with contributors and do stuff that makes players think you listen to them. Even silly publicity stunt like bringing that german derp td for some special mode.

11 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/quickybabytv

https://socialblade.com/twitch/user/quickybaby

Make of it, what you will. Mail-order brides ain't cheap, that much is certain.

Come on. While I know it's a stereotype you are being an ass towards his wife. You don't like him and it's fine but going after someones wife is an uber dick move. 

[Madner Kami 405]

18 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

I know someone at WG and while he is a very smart guy I think the believes the ingame bs so he says some stuff that makes my head scratch like "Unicums don't know more than bad players because unicum x likes this shitty tank we all know is shit (wotlabs would agree)" and they basically think they know what they are doing. 

 

Really all they need to do is reverse armorcreep + bring back weakspots (people penning you but not firing gold is less frustrating) and give the middle finger to 3/5/7. This will slow the drain. Reversing it is impossible, the damage is done but those 2 things and the game would not frustrate the fuck out of people. 

Also do exciting stuff with contributors and do stuff that makes players think you listen to them. Even silly publicity stunt like bringing that german derp td for some special mode.

Come on. While I know it's a stereotype you are being an ass towards his wife. You don't like him and it's fine but going after someones wife is an uber dick move. 

I'm not "going after her", I just don't have a particularly high opinion about her. Anyways:

Just going back on armor creep isn't going to fix all too much, because as QB points out, a lot of things happened that made things worse and, argueably, some of the armor-creeped tanks needed armor creeping. Some tanks still do, to fullfill their role, if you ask me. I think the one thing everyone can agree upon is the matchmaking, but even there I have to argue, that, back in the day, I actually did enjoy being at the bottom of the bunch and saw it as a challenge to overcome and my most memorable games were autoloading 59-16 games on city-maps against T28s. It's hard to exactly put my finger on what happened, but it's a combination of factors and guessing from the graphs, it's the same for most everyone.

[kolni 69,670,872]

just ship out patch 0.8.1 or some shit and call it a day 

[hazzgar 730]

29 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

I'm not "going after her", I just don't have a particularly high opinion about her. Anyways:

Just going back on armor creep isn't going to fix all too much, because as QB points out, a lot of things happened that made things worse and, argueably, some of the armor-creeped tanks needed armor creeping. Some tanks still do, to fullfill their role, if you ask me. I think the one thing everyone can agree upon is the matchmaking, but even there I have to argue, that, back in the day, I actually did enjoy being at the bottom of the bunch and saw it as a challenge to overcome and my most memorable games were autoloading 59-16 games on city-maps against T28s. It's hard to exactly put my finger on what happened, but it's a combination of factors and guessing from the graphs, it's the same for most everyone.

There is a difference between reasonable and unreasonable armor creep.

Making tanks with fewer weakspots, killing accuracy. Armor back in the day worked nicely. Kv4 used to be workable in terms of armor. Also the problem is the epidemic of hull down tanks. It used to be that there were a few hull down tanks with good gun dep. Now it's everyone so ranked was people camping in hull down positions and everyone carried HE for that reason. 

Basically WG should do everything to promote dynamic gameplay that also doesn't result in steamrolls. 

22 minutes ago, Kolni said:

just ship out patch 0.8.1 or some shit and call it a day 

9.17.

[Sapros 348]

56 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

I'm not "going after her", I just don't have a particularly high opinion about her. 

I could have bet my left nut the resident white knight would have something to say about that remark.

[nabucodonsor 461]

Or just do what they did in blitz where they nerfed the dmg on premium ammo and made it just another type of ammo, reduced the alpha on bigger guns and more armored vehicles. Reduce RNG from 25% to 15% and so on. 

The solution is there they just dont want to do it because they cant milk their player base as much.

[robosapieo 142]

1 hour ago, nabucodonsor said:

Or just do what they did in blitz where they nerfed the dmg on premium ammo and made it just another type of ammo, reduced the alpha on bigger guns and more armored vehicles. Reduce RNG from 25% to 15% and so on. 

The solution is there they just dont want to do it because they cant milk their player base as much.

TMW the mobile version of your game is less of a monetary parasite than the real one

[hazzgar 730]

3 hours ago, Sapros said:

I could have bet my left nut the resident white knight would have something to say about that remark.

I love how not being an asshole would have to be relabeled so the resident incel feels good about his shitty life.

54 minutes ago, robosapieo said:

TMW the mobile version of your game is less of a monetary parasite than the real one

It's also funny how apparently the least skilled team in the company has been assigned to their biggest product. Wows and Blitz teams seem to have more brain

[Sapros 348]

20 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

I love how not being an asshole would have to be relabeled so the resident incel feels good about his shitty life.

You're characteristically wrong. Interesting assumptions nonetheless. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[hazzgar 730]

23 minutes ago, Sapros said:

You're characteristically wrong. Interesting assumptions nonetheless. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

I love your double standards and how simple it makes you look. I basically used the same rhetorical device you used on me. I used an online speech insult used to grossly mischaracterize ones political leanings. Same as you and mine is projection? Also for projection to work I'd have to poses any characteristics of an incel. I don't think an engaged man in a stable relationship with no anger issues towards women, society, lefties and with reasonable social skills (they can be found defined on wikipedia too, try them) qualifies. So your "noo you" is weak m8.

Go back to claiming shit tanks are good. Torty was so good it got buffed so what now? a44? Or you can't do that after you were thrown out of Jordan Peterson school for disenfranchised lobsters? 

[Sapros 348]

16 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

I don't think an engaged man in a stable relationship with no anger issues towards women, society, lefties and with reasonable social skills (they can be found defined on wikipedia too, try them) qualifies. 

Me neither.

[Hellsfog 249]

People complain about heavily armored tanks because of  what's-his-face but tanks that rely on armor need reliable armor.  Tanks that depend on hull-down to be effective need to to go hull down. If you give either easily hit and penned weak spots (that can't be hidden at least) what's the point of having armor or going hull down. If you are going to make every tank easily penned from the front or when hull down, what's the point. 

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

Gold ammo and arty fucked it, those 2 made heavy tanks useless, and when the heavys suck, the bads will drive TDs or artys, many fun....

Over the years anything and everything got good gun depression, accuracy and turret armour, and every tank is now the same, with a different skin, aka shit.

The main reasons why historical accuracy was so important, is that it forced WG to be creative, a tank with crappy RL armour and no gun depression needs to be amazing in other stuff, while a tank with fat armour and (often big gun) needs to be bad in other departments to make it balanced.

Beiing a bit creative for the sake of gameplay, ok, but the last 3 years have been a total shit show in this regards.

Only way to fix the game (perhaps):

1. One arty in each team as hard cap
2. Start removing autoloaders, it should be a nich, not something half the tanks have
3. cut gold ammo dmg down by 25%
4. Reduce hitpoints of all tier 9 and especially tier 10 tanks a bit and nerf dpm of tier 10
5. Reduce accuracy, especially of top tier tanks
6. Add weakspots and when tanks become to weak, buff them a bit in other department.

Tier 10 was always the cancer of the game, and it spread to all tiers over the years...

[Jesse_the_Scout 2,100]

World of Tanks is like a 104 year old man in that whichever one of its conditions you identify as life-threatening you are probably right.

[Madner Kami 405]

1 hour ago, Hellsfog said:

People complain about heavily armored tanks because of  what's-his-face but tanks that rely on armor need reliable armor.  Tanks that depend on hull-down to be effective need to to go hull down. If you give either easily hit and penned weak spots (that can't be hidden at least) what's the point of having armor or going hull down. If you are going to make every tank easily penned from the front or when hull down, what's the point. 

Oh, someone gets it.

38 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

Gold ammo and arty fucked it, those 2 made heavy tanks useless, and when the heavys suck, the bads will drive TDs or artys, many fun....

Over the years anything and everything got good gun depression, accuracy and turret armour, and every tank is now the same, with a different skin, aka shit.

The main reasons why historical accuracy was so important, is that it forced WG to be creative, a tank with crappy RL armour and no gun depression needs to be amazing in other stuff, while a tank with fat armour and (often big gun) needs to be bad in other departments to make it balanced.

Beiing a bit creative for the sake of gameplay, ok, but the last 3 years have been a total shit show in this regards.

Only way to fix the game (perhaps):

1. One arty in each team as hard cap
2. Start removing autoloaders, it should be a nich, not something half the tanks have
3. cut gold ammo dmg down by 25%
4. Reduce hitpoints of all tier 9 and especially tier 10 tanks a bit and nerf dpm of tier 10
5. Reduce accuracy, especially of top tier tanks
6. Add weakspots and when tanks become to weak, buff them a bit in other department.

Tier 10 was always the cancer of the game, and it spread to all tiers over the years...

Nice observation that I can subscribe to. Historical accuracy once was a thing and it helped give a balancing guideline (and argueably would have helped even more if they were stricter in the application, e.g. no unhistorically strong guns in tanks and in particular in turrets that would never ever have been able to accomodate it). Nowadays the typical buff includes increasing gun-depression. There was a time when the gun's breach was actually part of the model, even if you didn't see it, as they never went through the roof due to the depression-limits set.

There's one thing I would change about your list of things to change though. If you want to keep the stun-mechanic, then negating the stun-effect by a push of a button should not be a thing, if there's only one artillery in the game.

[Ham_ 434]

41 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Oh, someone gets it.

Nice observation that I can subscribe to. Historical accuracy once was a thing and it helped give a balancing guideline (and argueably would have helped even more if they were stricter in the application, e.g. no unhistorically strong guns in tanks and in particular in turrets that would never ever have been able to accomodate it). Nowadays the typical buff includes increasing gun-depression. There was a time when the gun's breach was actually part of the model, even if you didn't see it, as they never went through the roof due to the depression-limits set.

There's one thing I would change about your list of things to change though. If you want to keep the stun-mechanic, then negating the stun-effect by a push of a button should not be a thing, if there's only one artillery in the game.

There is also the problem of running out of historical tanks, which gradually lead to more "theory" tanks and which coincidentally coincided with the introduction of OP tanks.

[Archaic_One 1,853]

@GehakteMolen you were doing ok until you said 'reduce accuracy'.  Nobody wants to play a game where tanks sit on corners bouncing shot after shot because they can't hit anything. The great accuracy nerf is why players like me run so much APCR/HEAT now.  After missing shot after shot at a fucking VK 100.1 cupola with an E50 that should NEVER miss that shot, I just say fuck it and start punching prem ammo through him.  Shit accuracy plus 25% RNG just drives the use of prem ammo up.

Either give tanks small reticles with 25% RNG, or take RNG out of accuracy.  0.4 accuracy with .25% RNG and then nerfing prem ammo instantly makes the Type 5 and FV4005 broken OP . . . oh wait - they already are. The inability to hit aimed shots is one of the reasons WoT is undesirable as an esport.  Making hitting shots even harder isn't going to improve the game.  Its just going to make me throw my mouse even farther.

I already kill enough dirt and rocks as it is, give them a break FFS.

[nabucodonsor 461]

10 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

Gold ammo and arty fucked it, those 2 made heavy tanks useless, and when the heavys suck, the bads will drive TDs or artys, many fun....

Over the years anything and everything got good gun depression, accuracy and turret armour, and every tank is now the same, with a different skin, aka shit.

The main reasons why historical accuracy was so important, is that it forced WG to be creative, a tank with crappy RL armour and no gun depression needs to be amazing in other stuff, while a tank with fat armour and (often big gun) needs to be bad in other departments to make it balanced.

Beiing a bit creative for the sake of gameplay, ok, but the last 3 years have been a total shit show in this regards.

Only way to fix the game (perhaps):

1. One arty in each team as hard cap
2. Start removing autoloaders, it should be a nich, not something half the tanks have
3. cut gold ammo dmg down by 25%
4. Reduce hitpoints of all tier 9 and especially tier 10 tanks a bit and nerf dpm of tier 10
5. Reduce accuracy, especially of top tier tanks
6. Add weakspots and when tanks become to weak, buff them a bit in other department.

Tier 10 was always the cancer of the game, and it spread to all tiers over the years...

Reducing HP is a bad idea as in this way turbo battles will become insta battles. HP allows better players to trade but also allows newer/bad players to make mistakes.

So I'd rather buff the HP to make battles last longer or nerf the alpha on bigger guns. And nerfing the alpha is the best solution because if you reduce the dpm on gold dmg you are nerfing those tanks that need it the most aka mediums, to fight heavier targets who in return can instead easily pen the softer tanks. In this scenario medium and light tanks would have to trade HP alpha and even dpm for some extra mobility. So the best solution imo is to nerf the alpha all around plus a nerf to gold ammo alpha's. 

Another thing that should be done is reducing the view range on tanks  from tier 8-10 to allow spotters to play a bit better.