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WG Fest 2019 - Change of gold amo and much more

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It's really concerning if that's actually their plan. WG's balance cycle is EXTREMELY slow.

Yeah. The more I think about it the more I think "ew". WG time is literally 3-4 times as long as the time in our reality. It took them over two years to inflate all the armor from tier 8-10 which is only 3 tiers, unless they take it more seriously than usual it will take them years to deflate the entire game. Given that this rebalance has started with what, 5 tanks? And they're starting to rebalance when they haven't even finalized what the gold ammo solution is...? If this is the approach the whole thing is going to be a dumpster fire for a year at least. They need to to crank out 30+ new models per patch starting with the heavies, not hurpadurp grab 5 random tanks.

Of course, it's WG. First patch notes will be "reduced damage of 90mm gun from 240 to 225, reduced damage of 105mm gun from 320 to 310" type nonsense that won't matter anyway.

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24 minutes ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

Yeah. The more I think about the more I think "ew". WG time is literally 3-4 times as long as the time in our reality. It took them over two years to inflate all the armor from tier 8-10 which is only 3 tiers, unless they take it more seriously than usual it will take them years to deflate the entire game. Given that this rebalance has started with what, 5 tanks? And they're starting to rebalance when they haven't even finalized what the gold ammo solution is...? If this is the approach the whole thing is going to be a dumpster fire for a year at least. They need to to crank out 30+ new models per patch starting with the heavies, not hurpadurp grab 5 random tanks.

Of course, it's WG. First patch notes will be "reduced damage of 90mm gun from 240 to 225, reduced damage of 105mm gun from 320 to 310" type nonsense that won't matter anyway.

You forgot the next line which would be:

"Increase damage of Russian 100mm guns from 320 to 390"

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27 minutes ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

WG time is literally 3-4 times as long as the time in our reality.

Hm, how much time is left by now, of their envisioned MM-changes? Is it still 4 or 5 months?

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WG won't act without data and even when they have data they are still slow to fix things.

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36 minutes ago, hiipanda said:

WG won't act without data and even when they have data they are still slow to fix things.

Data bases decision making is huge in major companies at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's the be all and end all. WG need to realise sometimes you need to rely on intuition and get things released ASAP. Want to know the most obvious example? They just spent months analyzing front lines impacts on game economy and profits instead of just letting people play it.

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5 minutes ago, Ham_ said:

Data bases decision making is huge in major companies at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's the be all and end all. WG need to realise sometimes you need to rely on intuition and get things released ASAP. Want to know the most obvious example? They just spent months analyzing front lines impacts on game economy and profits instead of just letting people play it.

Or taking 6months to realize that the object 268 V4 was overpowered

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1 hour ago, Tupinambis said:

Or taking 6months to realize that the object 268 V4 was overpowered

The problem is, the feedback they get. Just check out the official forums how all the pubbies are just claiming that IS-3A is not overpowered, because it's slightly slower. It's basically the same reason why we have this current mm system. How many good players used to complain about old mm?, as QB said they only wrong thing with old mm was having different amount of tanks of the same tier. Most of the bad things in WoT are because WG gets awful feedback from players who think they know everything about the game and good players are good because hacks and gold rounds. Arty, superheavy meta, new mm, Type 5.
263 was a decent tank. Strong but far from being broken. WG reason to change it? ''It was not so popular, so we brought a broken thing so you can play with your dick and get +50% WR''.

If finally WG decides to listen to the people who actually knows what's good for this game, this is gonna be a success, otherwise RIP WoT 2019.

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38 minutes ago, mati_14 said:

The problem is, the feedback they get. Just check out the official forums how all the pubbies are just claiming that IS-3A is not overpowered, because it's slightly slower. It's basically the same reason why we have this current mm system. How many good players used to complain about old mm?, as QB said they only wrong thing with old mm was having different amount of tanks of the same tier. Most of the bad things in WoT are because WG gets awful feedback from players who think they know everything about the game and good players are good because hacks and gold rounds. Arty, superheavy meta, new mm, Type 5.
263 was a decent tank. Strong but far from being broken. WG reason to change it? ''It was not so popular, so we brought a broken thing so you can play with your dick and get +50% WR''.

If finally WG decides to listen to the people who actually knows what's good for this game, this is gonna be a success, otherwise RIP WoT 2019.

CS:GO gets feedback from the pro scene, WG doesn't have much of a pro scene any more. We're stuck with shitters having a huge say because remember unicum is the 99%? percentile. 99% percent of the population is retarded.

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Just looking back to how long it took them to fix the E5, Maus, and V4 we could be looking at nerfed prem rounds and no frontal weak spots for 4-12 months.  I cannot think of a single time they ever rebalanced a fuck up in under 4 months.  Hell, for that matter you can legitimately say that the broken-as-fuck Type 5 prem round has needed to be rebalanced since April of 2017. 

Now, the fact the Murazor got fired gives me some hope that they will be less inclined to shit on meds for months. The Russian CCs saved the BC 25t, so there are at least some sane voices in Cyka Land that do get listened to.  If evil granny, Amway and Straik start throwing a hissy fit when their beloved E50s are suddenly trash - WG is going to be inclined to listen to guys with 1M+ subscribers.

Or, this could just be another version of Havok . . . SOONTM

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I think you are being optimistic if you think WG will implement more than perhaps one thing from that list next year. It smells like a PR stunt to placate the player base. Really just them pointing at a text and saying "see, we are doing something about all that". While at the same time they throw E-25s, Lefefefefes, Defenders and IS-3A into loot boxes.

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16 hours ago, Hellsfog said:

I understood your point. I simply didn't want to believe you were being serious.  If WG is 2-3 months away from doing the the armor rework, which I doubt, why not wait and do everything at once and avoid 2-3 months, or substantially longer, of absolute shit?  

Yeah if WG does everything at once yeah it may be a better idea. I just know once wg "fixes" (or destroys) something they rarely correct. You are assuming what will happen is a perfect scenario which is rather unlikely in a company with a long history of incompetence. I think it's a diffference of points of view. Your solution is a great idea assuming WG is perfectly competent. Mine is great assuming WG is perfectly incompetent.

 

Seriously I can suffer a while if this leads to WG being scared and balancing armor right. Remember they are super precious with armored tanks players so if there is no pushback against their changes they might do too little and end up doing EXACTLY what you are afraid off - buffing armored tanks if they nerf armor too little in relation to premium ammo rebalance. - This is what I am afraid of since I know they are morons.

15 hours ago, Ham_ said:

WG need to make it a complete overhaul, or they risk breaking the game by balancing every mechanic one by one. With a complete overhaul they can balance at a large scale first then at a small scale to fine-tune. I doubt they have the competency to get a large rebalance right though.

This is what Im worried about

13 hours ago, Ham_ said:

Data bases decision making is huge in major companies at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's the be all and end all. WG need to realise sometimes you need to rely on intuition and get things released ASAP. Want to know the most obvious example? They just spent months analyzing front lines impacts on game economy and profits instead of just letting people play it.

Data based decision making is also a gimmick and many companies are really damn bad at interpreting data. WG is a great example of what. Remember the famous 5% gold shells because the morons looked at stats for all tiers? 

10 hours ago, Ham_ said:

CS:GO gets feedback from the pro scene, WG doesn't have much of a pro scene any more. We're stuck with shitters having a huge say because remember unicum is the 99%? percentile. 99% percent of the population is retarded.

Even if they listened to greens and better players it would be better. I know they often have idiotic ideas but at least the average level of what is considered reasonable would go up

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5 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Yeah if WG does everything at once yeah it may be a better idea. I just know once wg "fixes" (or destroys) something they rarely correct. You are assuming what will happen is a perfect scenario which is rather unlikely in a company with a long history of incompetence. I think it's a diffference of points of view. Your solution is a great idea assuming WG is perfectly competent. Mine is great assuming WG is perfectly incompetent.

 

Seriously I can suffer a while if this leads to WG being scared and balancing armor right. Remember they are super precious with armored tanks players so if there is no pushback against their changes they might do too little and end up doing EXACTLY what you are afraid off - buffing armored tanks if they nerf armor too little in relation to premium ammo rebalance. - This is what I am afraid of since I know they are morons.

This is what Im worried about

Data based decision making is also a gimmick and many companies are really damn bad at interpreting data. WG is a great example of what. Remember the famous 5% gold shells because the morons looked at stats for all tiers? 

Even if they listened to greens and better players it would be better. I know they often have idiotic ideas but at least the average level of what is considered reasonable would go up

I don't know why you make assumptions. You're stunningly bad at it. The assumption I actual made is that the game will shed players a la AW if the premium ammo change goes through without an armor rebalance.  It seems moronic to push through the premium ammo change if the armor rebalance is only 90 days away. I don't think anyone assumes WG will get either change right on the first try for every tank or that there won't be multiple post-rebalance changes. 

I do disagree with your assumption that the armor rebalance is at most 90 days behind the ammo changes.  This assumption is silly given WG's history and if it is correct, as I said above, why wouldn't you wait. 

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Change the tanks first then change the premium ammo IMO, type 5 et al will be some level of broken with these changes. If they move at the speed they moved with the Maus, 268 v4 etc. then we are talking 6-9 months of Type 5 being even more problematic, players will continue to shed away at an even greater rate in that sort of situation.

Also will E100 even need a buff if they change premium ammo? Especially if they just toned down the armour of some of its rivals.

What worries me is there zero specific mentions of toning down armour or re-introducing weakspots, they kind of hint at they will look at each tank yada yada, but not hard for them to just add another paragraph that says they know some tanks armour is too good and it will be looked out.

Also the relationship between -2/+2 tiers gets even worse, an E100 doesn't need HEAT to pen an IS3, but an IS3 needs APCR to reliably pen an E100 lower plate, so the E100 is still doing 750, but now the IS3 is doing 300? Seems legit. 

Also no mention of arty in there anywhere.

I do like the video though, hiding stats, map blacklist, 6th sense for everyone, some good changes there. 

I'd like to see more tanks they have scheduled for buffs aside those 5, and what they have in mind as well. 

Also leaks on the Polish sit say that Type 4/5 are getting HESH as premium with more pen and less damage, look forward to facing 220 pen 950 damage Type 5s in your medium tank that you can only 280 damage to with each shot. 

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25 minutes ago, Hellsfog said:

I don't know why you make assumptions. You're stunningly bad at it. The assumption I actual made is that the game will shed players a la AW if the premium ammo change goes through without an armor rebalance.  It seems moronic to push through the premium ammo change if the armor rebalance is only 90 days away. I don't think anyone assumes WG will get either change right on the first try for every tank or that there won't be multiple post-rebalance changes. 

I do disagree with your assumption that the armor rebalance is at most 90 days behind the ammo changes.  This assumption is silly given WG's history and if it is correct, as I said above, why wouldn't you wait. 

1. You also make assumptions. You are worse then me

2. I'm not bad at making assumptions. I literally get paid for making them and I am checked for accuracy. You could even say I'm stunningly good at them.

3. Again you make assumptions too. A)  You make the assumption that WG knows to make both changes at the same time B) You assume that if they do it at the same time and do it wrong in favor of the heavies (like they always do) in the long run it won't kill the player numbers more than a short stint of what I was talking about. 

4. I have NOT said armor rebalance is 90 days behind ammo changes. You are stunningly bad at reading shit. If the gap between armor and ammo rebalance is too big I agree with you it will kill the game. You just fail to see the other option - WG releases a test patch where prem ammo is nerfed in damage and so is the armor. Ivans and Bobs cry about armor being bad because people value being penned more than losing hp (as evidenced by people undervaluing HP pools on tanks even on Wotlabs) so WG gets scared like they got scared after Sandbox (yeah at least I make my assumptions based off past events) and they scale back armor changes to type5 level armor nerfs. Can you read this? Like 5 times? Because you seem incapable of undertanding this is a probable scenario. I am NOT  saying the only other scenario is ammo nerf then amor nerf in 90 days. I am just trying to make you notice that A) WG has not said they will make those 2 changes at the same time and you assume they do because it's the smart thing to do (which is stupid on your part because when was WG smart?) B) To see other probable ways WG can handle this given their history of stupid behavior and panicking becaues of bobs and ivans.  Tajjj is making a good point why nerfing armor first is a good idea but WG will not do this. I may be wrong but they have historically been really afraid of their heavy drivers opinion. 

14 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Change the tanks first then change the premium ammo IMO, type 5 et al will be some level of broken with these changes. If they move at the speed they moved with the Maus, 268 v4 etc. then we are talking 6-9 months of Type 5 being even more problematic, players will continue to shed away at an even greater rate in that sort of situation.

Also will E100 even need a buff if they change premium ammo? Especially if they just toned down the armour of some of its rivals.

What worries me is there zero specific mentions of toning down armour or re-introducing weakspots, they kind of hint at they will look at each tank yada yada, but not hard for them to just add another paragraph that says they know some tanks armour is too good and it will be looked out.

Also the relationship between -2/+2 tiers gets even worse, an E100 doesn't need HEAT to pen an IS3, but an IS3 needs APCR to reliably pen an E100 lower plate, so the E100 is still doing 750, but now the IS3 is doing 300? Seems legit. 

Also no mention of arty in there anywhere.

I do like the video though, hiding stats, map blacklist, 6th sense for everyone, some good changes there. 

I'd like to see more tanks they have scheduled for buffs aside those 5, and what they have in mind as well. 

Also leaks on the Polish sit say that Type 4/5 are getting HESH as premium with more pen and less damage, look forward to facing 220 pen 950 damage Type 5s in your medium tank that you can only 280 damage to with each shot. 

Good point about lower tiers being screwed. Now add to that mid tier lights with shit ammo capacity (amx 13 75). They need to rebalance all ammo not just prem ammo. 

I'm also afraid they will not bring back weakspots. 

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2 hours ago, hazzgar said:

1. You also make assumptions. You are worse then me

How so? Do you disagree that the ammo changes without the armor changes will be a shit shot? Do you disagree that the ammo changes without armor changes will cause players to leave? Do you disagree that both changes should be made at the same time?  I only ask because these are the only points I made. 

2. I'm not bad at making assumptions. I literally get paid for making them and I am checked for accuracy. You could even say I'm stunningly good at them.

Yeah, you kind of are bad at it.  I literally get paid to sort bullshit from not bullshit. You could even say I'm stunningly good at it. You reek of it.

3. Again you make assumptions too. A)  You make the assumption that WG knows to make both changes at the same time B) You assume that if they do it at the same time and do it wrong in favor of the heavies (like they always do) in the long run it won't kill the player numbers more than a short stint of what I was talking about. 

Literally, none of that was said by me. 
A) What I actually said was that both changes should be made at the same time not that WG would do either well.  

B) I didn't make that assumption. I never even raised the point. This is you reading into my post something that was never there so I guess so you could finally be right about something.  When has WG ever gotten anything right on the first try? Of course there will be further adjustments. If i made any assumptions it was that if both changes are made at once, it will be less of a shit show. 

4. I have NOT said armor rebalance is 90 days behind ammo changes. You are stunningly bad at reading shit. If the gap between armor and ammo rebalance is too big I agree with you it will kill the game. You just fail to see the other option - WG releases a test patch where prem ammo is nerfed in damage and so is the armor. Ivans and Bobs cry about armor being bad because people value being penned more than losing hp (as evidenced by people undervaluing HP pools on tanks even on Wotlabs) so WG gets scared like they got scared after Sandbox (yeah at least I make my assumptions based off past events) and they scale back armor changes to type5 level armor nerfs. Can you read this? Like 5 times? Because you seem incapable of undertanding this is a probable scenario. I am NOT  saying the only other scenario is ammo nerf then amor nerf in 90 days. I am just trying to make you notice that A) WG has not said they will make those 2 changes at the same time and you assume they do because it's the smart thing to do (which is stupid on your part because when was WG smart?) B) To see other probable ways WG can handle this given their history of stupid behavior and panicking becaues of bobs and ivans.  Tajjj is making a good point why nerfing armor first is a good idea but WG will not do this. I may be wrong but they have historically been really afraid of their heavy drivers opinion. 

Didn't you say that after the ammo changes the game will be fucked for up to 90 days? I could have swore you did. Unless you simply wrote poorly which is entirely possible. As for the rest, you are again incorrectly reading my posts. Since you are being unusually dense, even for you, I will explain it again. What I posted is what I believe should happen and a prediction of what will happen if WG releases the premium ammo changes alone. The same would be true of releasing the armor changes alone.  The entirety of this paragraph is you addressing your assumptions about what I wrote and not what I actually wrote.  Are you sure you get paid for this assumption thing? Does this gig making assumptions require you to read and understand things?

Good point about lower tiers being screwed. Now add to that mid tier lights with shit ammo capacity (amx 13 75). They need to rebalance all ammo not just prem ammo. 

I'm also afraid they will not bring back weakspots. 

Your other posts, to my mind, appear to be advocating for the release of the ammo changes without the armor changes because WG is too incompetent to do both at the same time.  If that was your point, it may well be true but it does not change that doing so would be bad. 

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On 12/17/2018 at 9:17 PM, Tupinambis said:

Or taking 6months to realize that the object 268 V4 was overpowered

And 6 months was actually fast from WG part tbh. 

 

It's way too late to nerf gold round, they need to massively rethink maps and tank balance before they do anything to gold rounds. Hell they needed to do this proposed changed when it made sense, basically just before the E5 nerf, this is when the game was not saturated by armored meta tanks. They just missed that time. 

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There's a greater chance of me winning the Eurojackpot than WG getting shit done, not to mention done before we die of old age. I think WG started mentioning giving everyone 6th sense for free around 2014 but I sure as shit don't see it in-game yet. WG also works on a schedule that rivals poorly imported Korean MMOs, given to some Western publisher that releases a translation patch and then doesn't do anything to the game for well over 6 months despite the native game getting content every few weeks.

Frankly, WG has had many ideas over the years that could have turned WoT into an absolute powerhouse of an MMO but they tend to scrap 95% of the good ones and keep most of the bad ones. But whatever, it only took them over half a decade to change arty and end up making them even worse :doge:

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On 12/18/2018 at 7:14 AM, Ham_ said:

They just spent months analyzing front lines impacts on game economy and profits instead of just letting people play it.

Haha, for once the actual reasoning is incompetence, not anything to do with data gathering, although they would have taken the opportunity to do so (gather data).

 

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unknown-1.png?ssl=1

Sigh.

Quote

We do not plan to add weakspots. 

So basically this change is just a global armour buff. 

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14 hours ago, Hellsfog said:

Your other posts, to my mind, appear to be advocating for the release of the ammo changes without the armor changes because WG is too incompetent to do both at the same time.  If that was your point, it may well be true but it does not change that doing so would be bad. 

1. You are bad at reading. I DON"T disagree that armor changes without ammo changes are a shit show. I totally agree. I am simply saying this might be the only way WG properly balances armor in the long run since massive community outrage seems the only thing that motivates them. I also don't disagree that those changes will make players leave but I disagree on the scale. Also again I am not saying this is the best option. You COMPLETELY miss the point of what I'm saying. I am not saying what WG should do. I am saying what wg should do GIVEN THEIR HISTORY OF BEHAVIOR. What you are saying is reasonable if WG was reasonably competent. They are not so if they do this shit in stages this seems like an option that results in a more balanced game IN THE LONG RUN. 

 

2.  Then you should get fired. You are not good at it given you can't even read properly and understand what I'm writing. Again I am not saying what you write is not the best option. I am saying WG never goes for the most reasonable option so we have to correct for their patterns of behavior. This is not bullshit. This is simple forecasting. Want a book? 

 

3.  A) Yeah you didn't say it but you miss my point I was not talking about what WG should do. I was talking about what WG should do in their stupid framework of making bad decisions and catering to ivans. In bizzarro world of lets not anger ivan the is7 driver logic. Now you get it? I agree both changes should be made at the same time but you disagreeing with my points suggests you kinda see this as a perfect scenario or nothing like wg are not stupdid 

B) Again when you disagree with someones point you also make an assumption. 

 

4. Yeah the game will be fucked. I just made an assumption when wg makes those changes there is a high probability the game will be fucked anyway. So we agree here and you would notice this if you used your brain a little. So yeah releasing any changes of those alone will be horrible. What you missed in my point was that I was simply saying GIVEN THAT (you understand what given that means?) WG fucks up the game and releases those non simultaneously going with ammo first, armor later would give us better long term game balance. Simple as that.

 

Also yeah my job requires me to read and understand long texts. I read over 10 000 a4 pages every year. In English from people who really know how to write. I also correct people on the clarity of communictation. Again I get paid for that. You don't so don't even try to compare m8.

2 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

unknown-1.png?ssl=1

Sigh.

So basically this change is just a global armour buff. 

@Hellsfog see? WG are stupid and this will be a buff to armor. As per my assumption you called stupid. The high armor shitshow is inevitable. Do you even read wg posts? They are too fucking afraid piss off heavy drivers. This is why rebalancing gold ammo in a state of bigger armor imbalance is a good idea in the hands of WG idiots. They tend to overcorrect shit under pressure. 

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unknown.png?ssl=1

Now changing APCR to AP? Ummm why? Are they genuinely worried that pubbies will get hit by APCR and assume 'special'? They literally treat their players as if they are half wits. It's like they are saying 'apcr gets lower damage because it punches a small hole, you know for historic accuracy, so we're making it AP for realism... but yeah, the heat round is going to do less damage still'

Also at least sounding like some type 4/5 nerfs.

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17 minutes ago, Ezz said:

unknown.png?ssl=1

Now changing APCR to AP? Ummm why? Are they genuinely worried that pubbies will get hit by APCR and assume 'special'? They literally treat their players as if they are half wits. It's like they are saying 'apcr gets lower damage because it punches a small hole, you know for historic accuracy, so we're making it AP for realism... but yeah, the heat round is going to do less damage still'

Also at least sounding like some type 4/5 nerfs.

Have a look at what they are doing to carriers in WoWS at the moment. If you lack context, watch Farazelleth's video about the death of carrier RTS gameplay. Some of the changes and limitiations are literally (verbatim by WG) done because they think their audience is a bunch of stupid retards.

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Type 4/5 nerf is good since they are the most problematic at the moment. Yes ideally we need 430U and some others but by jesus as long as you remove that retarded HP spam I'll be content.

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