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WG Fest 2019 - Change of gold amo and much more

157 posts in this topic

The APCR to AP thing is pretty much a minor buff to all those tanks as they all have high APCR pen generally higher than most AP rounds, but with worse normalisation, they now have the best of both rounds, AP normalisation and APCR speed. 

Type 4 and 5 'nerfs' are only to their guns, yes less HE damage, they now become basically like the O-Ho, so instead of like 400 - 600, its more going to be like 300-400 on non-pen hits, so against other heavies less annoying.

But vs meds and lower tiers, it's a buff, because they now basically have HESH and can reliably do 750 damage to a lot of paper stuff and lower tiers, like a Type 5 would never pen an IS3 with HE currently, it's near impossible, but now they might pen it for 750, and it is unlikely to frontally pen a Leo 1, but now it is much likely.

Plus of course those tanks shooting back still can't reliably pen it, or if they do they lose 25% of their damage.

You also have to love that WG confirm that Super Heavies basically were OP, but apparently they are not 'now', oh really so aside the Maus nerf, which was minor and did nothing to it's armour, what changed to suddenly make these super heavies not OP?  

Sounds like BS if you ask me to excuse these stupid changes. Type 5 still over performs, as does Maus a little, Mauschen does, VK 1001 P does, of course Defender does, O-Ni does, O-I still does, Panzer VII is borderline, etc.  and now you are giving these tanks basically a 25-30% hit points buff.

If they came out tomorrow and slapped 700-800 hit points on a Maus, we know it would over perform, as it was over performing with 200 HP extra and a little more DPM than it has now, but a global premium ammo damage nerf which basically does the same thing won't?

BS IMO.

 

What is becoming clear to me that this change is not trying to address balance issues with prem ammo, this change is trying to increase credit drain.

If you deliberately ignore what is causing premium spam, i.e. your weakspot free OP armour and corridor maps, then you clearly do not care about balance and really you just want to force people to spam more premium ammo to do the same job and thus spend more credits. 

Oh and the WOT playerbase is completely dumb and has got dumber over the years, far more bads IMO than there used to be and the standard of a 48-49% player these days is like a 45% compared to how they were 3-4 years ago. When I first started playing I played with another guy quite a lot who was about 49% overall, he was far more competent than the 'average' player you meet today, he could recognise stuff like map control, he could vaguely do his HP in damage unless he made a big muck up, he knew most of the mechanics even if he couldn't always use them etc. etc.

The average 48% er these days seems barely able to string two shots of damage together and can basically either hard camp or yolo.  

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I wouldn't be worried to much about super heavy tanks, I think WG is actually right, because besides Type 5 which is aids to play against, none of them are actually overperforming Maus is meh full tier 10 and good outside, JP not gonna change too much, E-100, 705A and 60TP will get slightly stronger, Pz 7 will still geting outclassed by VK which I seem being the strongest superheavy in the game. I'd be worried about meta tanks getting even more unstoppable, 277, 5A, 430U, S. Conquer, and once again 268V4. I think this cancer TD is the one that gets the most benefits from this changes. It's gonna keep trading 650 for a required gold round to have a chance of dealing now less dmg. I say it again, all the meta tanks should be nerfed, their powerlevel when played properly it's way too high.

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1 hour ago, Hellsfog said:

Players were complaining about over-armored tanks already.  I'm sure WG's decision will make everyone exceedingly happy. 

To not argue more lets talk about another problem. WG wants to fix mm so you are less often bottom tier. That's an indirect buff to heavies since armored tanks suffer the most in +2. Imagine defender that gets to see tier7s more than t10s. Hell Somua will be broken since lower tier tanks will have to aim at it not to bounce it but it will evaporate 2 lower tier tanks in 8s. So take 240dmg, do 1500. 

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I wouldn't mind heavily armored tanks if old vision style game play came back so you would have an interesting dynamic between the two... Which would require either reworking corridor maps or a massive view range rebalance, as if that's going to happen.

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6 hours ago, hazzgar said:

To not argue more lets talk about another problem. WG wants to fix mm so you are less often bottom tier. That's an indirect buff to heavies since armored tanks suffer the most in +2. Imagine defender that gets to see tier7s more than t10s. Hell Somua will be broken since lower tier tanks will have to aim at it not to bounce it but it will evaporate 2 lower tier tanks in 8s. So take 240dmg, do 1500. 

Those who complained about 3/5/7 are going to simply love the new templates which go to as many as 6 +2 tanks. 

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4 minutes ago, Hellsfog said:

Those who complained about 3/5/7 are going to simply love the new templates which go to as many as 6 +2 tanks. 

The issue will be whether they implement something to ensure a mixture of top and bottom tier battles.

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2 hours ago, Ezz said:

The issue will be whether they implement something to ensure a mixture of top and bottom tier battles.

Wg said they are thinking about 

Quote

In order to fix that, they are thinking of the following:

  • Add flexibility to the current system so it can better adapt to the queue evolution by adding more templates.
  • Two-tier battle: Possibility to add 6-9 and 7-8 templates
  • Three-tier battle: Possibility to add 4-5-6 and 5-5-5 templates.

https://ritastatusreport.live/2018/12/18/wargamings-2019-promises/

You may get to be top tier more often, we don't know how WG will set the preferences. It's only my opinion but if 3/5/7 is bad to be low tier, how is 5/5/5/ better. 

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1 hour ago, Hellsfog said:

Wg said they are thinking about 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2018/12/18/wargamings-2019-promises/

You may get to be top tier more often, we don't know how WG will set the preferences. It's only my opinion but if 3/5/7 is bad to be low tier, how is 5/5/5/ better. 

I suspect the theory is that with more 555 games in there it would mean the MM can slot more people in as top tiers more often.

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Any thoughts on how they would rework the Gold ammo on the Japanese heavies?

Seeing as a reduction of damage would be roughly equal to the standard Ammo damage, maybe we would see a new type of Ammo introduced or another gun to use with the 15cm only having the standard HE round.

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Variety in MM templates is great and a step in the right direction.

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19 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Oh and the WOT playerbase is completely dumb and has got dumber over the years, far more bads IMO than there used to be and the standard of a 48-49% player these days is like a 45% compared to how they were 3-4 years ago. When I first started playing I played with another guy quite a lot who was about 49% overall, he was far more competent than the 'average' player you meet today, he could recognise stuff like map control, he could vaguely do his HP in damage unless he made a big muck up, he knew most of the mechanics even if he couldn't always use them etc. etc.

The average 48% er these days seems barely able to string two shots of damage together and can basically either hard camp or yolo. 

THIS. I experience this every day.

 

19 hours ago, tajj7 said:

ut vs meds and lower tiers, it's a buff, because they now basically have HESH and can reliably do 750 damage to a lot of paper stuff and lower tiers, like a Type 5 would never pen an IS3 with HE currently, it's near impossible, but now they might pen it for 750, and it is unlikely to frontally pen a Leo 1, but now it is much likely.

Plus of course those tanks shooting back still can't reliably pen it, or if they do they lose 25% of their damage.

HESH for these heavies will wreck the remaining balance for good..

Plus I assume that they would use day-long farming in frontline mode to make-up for the credit-loss via premium ammo shooting which will become extremely frustrating. I already see the picture in my head, on malinovka I carry in my leopard, 1 arty and 1 type 4 remains in the base (i.e. bot), I try to outspot him and / or kill him but magically I'm spotted and got oneshot from like 843 hp while I did one shot of dmg for like 275 to its full hp.

The rage will be harder..

And of course the playerbase is so idiotic its painful to watch.. they complain in the forums that the IS3A is too slow so they can't use it so they should buff it (!), plus there is the 30+ pages of BS about the upcoming "nerf" to types and they don't even comprehend the meaning of the changes. All I see is that "shitty damage in my type, fuck you wg to take this after you took my t92's 1400 alpha' etc.

The game is on a fast roll downside (wheeled vehicles are another completely trash idea out of nowhere) with a very small base of normal players which can be perfectly shown on this forum, or its activity.

Very sad considering how much I loved the game in 2013-2014.

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11 hours ago, Hellsfog said:

Those who complained about 3/5/7 are going to simply love the new templates which go to as many as 6 +2 tanks. 

It's better to be with 6 +2 tanks once in a while than cosntantly with 3. It's basically how the old mm was. You sometimes were the only bottom tier tank. 

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4 hours ago, Stand_Sure said:

Any thoughts on how they would rework the Gold ammo on the Japanese heavies?

Seeing as a reduction of damage would be roughly equal to the standard Ammo damage, maybe we would see a new type of Ammo introduced or another gun to use with the 15cm only having the standard HE round.

They should really give the tank a viable AP round. I notice a lot less HEAT fired out of E100s ever since they buffed the AP pen so that it wasn't completely useless as a round, and I feel that if they gave the Types a half-decent AP round, and used the standard HE round as the gold HE round, the tank would be a lot less effective because it would lose a lot of its damage capability. Part of the reason it is so frustrating at the moment is because with full gold-spam and half a brain that knows not to aim at the thickest armoured parts of enemies, you can easily do 500-600 damage per shot reliably and have good armour so you can actually trade very evenly with other heavies. With the standard HE round, they are far less effective as can only trade around 300-400 damage per shot, which with the low rate of fire is abysmal for a tier 9/10 heavy. So have that as the 'gold' round and an AP round that isn't utter trash (maybe something similar to the E100, around 230~ish pen, 750 alpha) so that it's 'good enough' in most situations, but against other super-heavies it can shoot HE and gain module damage, but will lose out in a trade war because it's DPM is trash, and you'd probably solve the problem with these tanks (although they'd still be rather bad, I would imagine).

What they're probably going to do is change the gold round to something like 120 pen, 900 damage HESH...which really isn't making things better because it will do worse against other superheavies but it will gain the ability to pen and delete a far greater range of tanks.

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Nice conversation about possible paths WG might take. Do I need to remind you of WGs track record? This will be a dumbsterfire and nothing else. Rubicon 2.0 if you will. And the fire will burn brightly for a looooong time. That of course doesnt mean we cant have a discussion how things could be in an alternate dimension.

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2 minutes ago, Vesirott said:

Nice conversation about possible paths WG might take. Do I need to remind you of WGs track record? This will be a dumbsterfire and nothing else. Rubicon 2.0 if you will. And the fire will burn brightly for a looooong time. That of course doesnt mean we cant have a discussion how things could be in an alternate dimension.

This is what I was trying to say. Unless they have a new team or a new guy on top working on balance this will continue to be a dumPsterfire

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15 minutes ago, Balthazars said:

They should really give the tank a viable AP round. I notice a lot less HEAT fired out of E100s ever since they buffed the AP pen so that it wasn't completely useless as a round, and I feel that if they gave the Types a half-decent AP round, and used the standard HE round as the gold HE round, the tank would be a lot less effective because it would lose a lot of its damage capability. Part of the reason it is so frustrating at the moment is because with full gold-spam and half a brain that knows not to aim at the thickest armoured parts of enemies, you can easily do 500-600 damage per shot reliably and have good armour so you can actually trade very evenly with other heavies. With the standard HE round, they are far less effective as can only trade around 300-400 damage per shot, which with the low rate of fire is abysmal for a tier 9/10 heavy. So have that as the 'gold' round and an AP round that isn't utter trash (maybe something similar to the E100, around 230~ish pen, 750 alpha) so that it's 'good enough' in most situations, but against other super-heavies it can shoot HE and gain module damage, but will lose out in a trade war because it's DPM is trash, and you'd probably solve the problem with these tanks (although they'd still be rather bad, I would imagine).

What they're probably going to do is change the gold round to something like 120 pen, 900 damage HESH...which really isn't making things better because it will do worse against other superheavies but it will gain the ability to pen and delete a far greater range of tanks.

It's quite interesting you mention the change affecting it's capability to go up against other superheavies,  I had a game in the Type 5 the other day and was met by another Type using the 14cm, couldn't pen me I felt dirty about it lol

They were stating they would rebalancing every vehicle in the game in a case by case basis, the E100 is amongst the first to get rebalanced/destroyed how many Types will we be seeing then, at least for a little while until they get round to balancing the Types, it would be interesting to see what happens if AP becomes standard in the 15cm.

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Rather than a gold round nerf, a map rebalance would solve the need to sling premium with all the impenetrable-to-standard-round heavies/tds.

smh

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49 minutes ago, Fulcrous said:

Rather than a gold round nerf, a map rebalance would solve the need to sling premium with all the impenetrable-to-standard-round heavies/tds.

smh

 

19 hours ago, Ham_ said:

I wouldn't mind heavily armored tanks if old vision style game play came back so you would have an interesting dynamic between the two... Which would require either reworking corridor maps or a massive view range rebalance, as if that's going to happen.

I doubt WG are going to rework maps after they just finished reworking them, let's be honest. Even given the fact most of them are terrible.

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https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2018/12/20/shells-rebalance/

Vehicle Gun Old Damage New Damage
IS-3 122mm BL-9 390 290
T-44 100mm LB-1 250 190
IS-7 130mm S-70 490 360
KV-5 107mm ZiS-6M 300 225
KV-2 152mm M-10 700 500
Object 268 152mm M64 750 530
IS-4 122mm M62-T2 440 320
T100LT 100mm T 100 300 225
Obj. 430U 122mm M62-T2 440 320
Tiger II 105mm KwK46-L68 320 240
Ferdinand 128mm 44-L55 490 360
Maus 128mm Kw.K 44 L/55 490 360
Jagdtiger 128mm PaK 44 L/66 560 410
E-100 150mm Kw.K 44 L/38  750 530
Panther II 88mm Kw.K L/100 240 180
JagdPz E100 180mm PaK K/72 1050 735
Leopard 1 105mm L7A3 390 290
Pershing 90mm T15E2M2 240 180
T57 Heavy 120mm T179 400 300
T110E4 155mm T7E2 750 530
T110E3 155mm T7E2 750 530
T69 90mm T178 240 180
T49 152mm M81 700 500
M48A5 Patton 105mm M68 390 290
AMX 13 90 90mm F3M 240 180
Bat.Chatillon 25t 105mm mle. 57 390 290
AMX AC Mle1948 120mm AC SA46 400 300
Tortoise 120mm AT L1A1 400 300
Super Conqueror 120mm L1A1 400 300
Badger 123mm OQF Mk. 1 480 350
TVP T50/51 10mm AK1 320 240
Progetto M40/65 Cannone 105/51 M68 360 270
WZ111 1G FT 130mm 59-130JG FT 560 410
Type 5 Heavy 150mm/45 41st year 1400 750

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IS-7    130mm S-70    490    360

Bat.Chatillon 25t 105mm mle. 57 390 290

T69 90mm T178 240 180

Press F to pay respec

 

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40 minutes ago, Ham_ said:

IS-7    130mm S-70    490    360

Bat.Chatillon 25t 105mm mle. 57 390 290

T69 90mm T178 240 180

Press F to pay respec

 

I love blanket-lowering the alpha of tanks, that heavily rely on their premium ammunition or have a really limited ammo loadout. I really wonder what they are going to do to the Panther's 75/L100. 100 alpha instead of the dreaded 135?

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Idiots. This is a chance for these mongols to futher balance and diversify this game by changing paramenters of different tanks. Rather than have a granitic reduction based on the gun's caliber, they should also use balance around the actual pen gain. An E100 loses the same alpha an E3 loses whithout gaining the same pen advantage. Also this will destroy even further mediums tanks as they will not have the capacity to deal dmg. The dmg drop on smaller caliber guns is too much.

Furthermore they dont have a clue of the difference of alpha between tiers. 390 at tier 8 is  a meaty alpha dmg while a tier ten is more on the low/average spectrum, so nerfing the same amour is ridicule. Doing 240 in a 62a to a Maus it will be just like tickling his balls. And that is not counting stupid low rolls due to rng.

Does anyone know if they will test this on Sanbox before live?

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