Star_Dust

Hidden tech tree jewels?

51 posts in this topic

Will definitely second the tier 5 Leopard. Its clip dumps so mach alpha so fast that you feel like you are in a baby T49.  I still play the T20 and somehow it still works pretty well. 

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On 12/31/2018 at 9:14 AM, hall0 said:

IS2 is definitely a good tank. But if I had to choose a T7 HT I would go for the T29. This tank is just so much better than all the other heavy tanks on that tier. 

I've actually enjoyed the Tiger I more than the T29 after the Tiger I got its buffs a while back.  It was also the easiest tank to 3 mark because of all the new players who grind to it quickly.  I'm not sure if its a hidden gem because its a popular tank for many new players.

  • Highest DPM of tier 7 heavies (Some would say the O-Ni with HE is higher DPM, but that would also require every HE shot to fully pen)
  • Largest ammo capacity of tier 7 heavies
  • Above average standard round pen for tier 7
  • Very low ammo costs for a tier 7 heavy
  • 1500 HP which is more like the HP of a tier 8 heavy and only rivaled by the O-Ni
  • Best gun handling of the tier 7 heavies.  Yes the BP has better dispersion while moving but its dispersion on turret traverse feels like a KV2.
  • Tied with the BP for the best dispersion value 0f 0.33
  • Better than average aim time for a tier 7 heavy
  • Sure its armor is below average, but its HP pool is its armor.

I took my good crew out of my TIger I to put in a tier 10 German heavy.  However the tank has great stats without running chocolate/food and a lower skilled crew.

  • Reload time 5.53 seconds
  • Rate of fire 10.85 rounds per minute
  • Dispersion at 100 meters 0.31
  • DPM 2604
  • View Range 452 meters without Recon Skill on the commander

Running it with Chocolate gives it these stats

  • Reload time 5.30 seconds
  • Rate of fire 11.32 rounds per minute
  • Dispersion at 100 meters 0.30
  • DPM 2717
  • View Range 472 meters without Recon Skill on the commander

It makes the tank very effective when top or bottom tier.  Top tier you bully and DPM almost everything and your view range helps spot lower tier tanks a long way out.  Bottom tier you shoot at longer range and use your accuracy and DPM.

 

 

 

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Tiger H driven by a capable player (almost never the case tbh) is a great, great tank. T29 is a boring one trick pony, though it does that trick extremely well...

Talking about hidden jewels, if anybody cared about this game anymore, people would riot in the streets because SU-100M is so stupidly overpowered, it is literally beyond belief. Jagdtiger has good armor? Well comrade, meet this little brick at tier fucking VII.

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On 12/31/2018 at 2:25 PM, Hellsfog said:

The Japanese tier 4 Ke-Ho. I haven't played it since the changes to tier 4 MM but it was a nice tank and may still be. Reasonable mobility, good base pen, 131 gold pen.  

Still good, though, the M5A1 does everything that the Ke-Ho does, but a little better.

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On 12/31/2018 at 3:01 PM, nabucodonsor said:

It is a balanced tank that can deal with tier 9s and murders anything below tier 7. What more do you want?

Because lower tiers die laughing when you miss all your shots? It's an IS that gets useful heat pen but pays for that with horrible bloom stats. It;s also slower. 

6 hours ago, Errants said:

Still good, though, the M5A1 does everything that the Ke-Ho does, but a little better.

Except for turning the turret and having depresion in the back

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Tiger H i end up playing like a slow medium, but i usually end up playing everything like a medium of some kind. The DPM in it is absolutely fucking stupid. It was my first 3 mark from ages ago, not that I really care about them in the first place, but it really is a powerful tank. People just shoehorn it into the heavy role when it is anything but.

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I like the chinese T-34-1.

Turret is miniature, tough and  the tank has more camo than some lights.

Gun is derpy, but hits hard for the class.

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21 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Except for turning the turret and having depresion in the back

1

I've still got them both in my garage. Both are fun.

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1 hour ago, Errants said:

I've still got them both in my garage. Both are fun.

Yeah it is. I just hate low tiers since the chaos forces you to be more passive.

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On 1/2/2019 at 11:47 AM, hazzgar said:

Because lower tiers die laughing when you miss all your shots? It's an IS that gets useful heat pen but pays for that with horrible bloom stats. It;s also slower. 

Except for turning the turret and having depresion in the back

..... I have like 66,7 WR with over 2k wn8 solo in 86 games with it and I am not a good player. Grinded from stock.

I did not get the extra HP the top turret gives you. 50 HP might not look much but it is at such low tier. Hell a 100 HP gap can make a impact even in tier X games.

Also there is no difference in speed (check the terrain values; actally the IS-2 is faster but nothing to brag about) and difference in bloom is negligible: 0.02 is not a big deal. And hitting shots is related to final accuracy which is the same. Btw since you should not be sniping with it but either bully or support up close, I dont see the problem with the bloom values. Just take shots and let Mao guide it. 250 HEAT makes a huge difference when you need to pen Type 4s FRONTALLY. With an IS you have to relocate ect.

So I'd rather have more pen and better effective armour values than 0.02 bloom when moving around

8 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Yeah it is. I just hate low tiers since the chaos forces you to be more passive.

That is pretty much the opposite. Tier X punishes way more for mistakes than any tier below it. I drive my Cromwell like a retard with zero fucks given sometimes even in tier 8 games.

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There's a big difference between driving a Cromwell and driving in the baby tiers; T5/6 highlights aggressive play, but T1-3 (and depending on MM, 4) is ALL about camping. If you could be as powerful camping in a Leo as you can in a Leich, no one would bother moving past the first row of bushes.

I don't know if I'd call it chaos though, just bad players combined with obnoxiously short TTKs.

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7 hours ago, Rexxie said:

There's a big difference between driving a Cromwell and driving in the baby tiers; T5/6 highlights aggressive play, but T1-3 (and depending on MM, 4) is ALL about camping. If you could be as powerful camping in a Leo as you can in a Leich, no one would bother moving past the first row of bushes.

I don't know if I'd call it chaos though, just bad players combined with obnoxiously short TTKs.

This. The damage vs HP ratios are MUCH more skewed, especially coupled with DPM levels. Higher tiers allow for some mistakes... and if you lose 1/2 your HP, you've got 10+ seconds before that tank shoots you again. Whereas, the M2 Medium goes BURP 3 seconds later.

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10 hours ago, Errants said:

the M2 Medium goes BURP 3 seconds later

Sounds like an audio mod in the making. 

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On 1/3/2019 at 6:23 PM, nabucodonsor said:

..... I have like 66,7 WR with over 2k wn8 solo in 86 games with it and I am not a good player. Grinded from stock.

I did not get the extra HP the top turret gives you. 50 HP might not look much but it is at such low tier. Hell a 100 HP gap can make a impact even in tier X games.

Also there is no difference in speed (check the terrain values; actally the IS-2 is faster but nothing to brag about) and difference in bloom is negligible: 0.02 is not a big deal. And hitting shots is related to final accuracy which is the same. Btw since you should not be sniping with it but either bully or support up close, I dont see the problem with the bloom values. Just take shots and let Mao guide it. 250 HEAT makes a huge difference when you need to pen Type 4s FRONTALLY. With an IS you have to relocate ect.

So I'd rather have more pen and better effective armour values than 0.02 bloom when moving around

That is pretty much the opposite. Tier X punishes way more for mistakes than any tier below it. I drive my Cromwell like a retard with zero fucks given sometimes even in tier 8 games.

1. 2kwn8 should not give you 66%WR. That means the low sample size made you lucky. 

2. IS has 6 deg of gun dep vs 5 of IS2. T62a vs obj 140 case Also no erectile dysfunction and 25 vs 20 elevation. 

3. The only big terrain resistance value is on medium terrain. 0.10 difference in terrain resistances on soft and hard is not enough to compensate for 3hp/t.

4. I agree 250 heat is useful but then again IS is not as good as it used to be.

5. Yes tier X is also passive now but tiers 6-9 allow for more agressive play than t4 where players rutinely yolo or die 4 tanks in 15s. You just assumed there is no meta difference between t4 and t5-9? 

On 1/3/2019 at 11:49 PM, Rexxie said:

There's a big difference between driving a Cromwell and driving in the baby tiers; T5/6 highlights aggressive play, but T1-3 (and depending on MM, 4) is ALL about camping. If you could be as powerful camping in a Leo as you can in a Leich, no one would bother moving past the first row of bushes.

I don't know if I'd call it chaos though, just bad players combined with obnoxiously short TTKs.

This. Tank you. The problem with low tiers is you may think you are safe going to a flank with 4 other pubbies but then those pubbies die before you can say "TVP is best" and you are screwed. 

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16 hours ago, hazzgar said:

1. 2kwn8 should not give you 66%WR. That means the low sample size made you lucky. 

2. IS has 6 deg of gun dep vs 5 of IS2. T62a vs obj 140 case Also no erectile dysfunction and 25 vs 20 elevation. 

3. The only big terrain resistance value is on medium terrain. 0.10 difference in terrain resistances on soft and hard is not enough to compensate for 3hp/t.

4. I agree 250 heat is useful but then again IS is not as good as it used to be.

5. Yes tier X is also passive now but tiers 6-9 allow for more agressive play than t4 where players rutinely yolo or die 4 tanks in 15s. You just assumed there is no meta difference between t4 and t5-9? 

This. Tank you. The problem with low tiers is you may think you are safe going to a flank with 4 other pubbies but then those pubbies die before you can say "TVP is best" and you are screwed. 

Since when tier 4 or below are considered WoT? They are another game and frankly I never play them, I just try to go trough them as fast a possible. WoT starts at tier 5 where you learn how to angle tanks flank ect. Before it is just a tutorial to learn the controls.

If you say that I was lucky ok I guess I must have been. 

Nevermind what I say I will not convince you that whatever the IS has over the IS2 the simple fact it gets 250 HEAT and better armour it makes the chinese better. So IS2>IS due to prem and armour.

So lets agree that we disagree.

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2 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

Since when tier 4 or below are considered WoT? They are another game and frankly I never play them, I just try to go trough them as fast a possible. WoT starts at tier 5 where you learn how to angle tanks flank ect. Before it is just a tutorial to learn the controls.

If you say that I was lucky ok I guess I must have been. 

Nevermind what I say I will not convince you that whatever the IS has over the IS2 the simple fact it gets 250 HEAT and better armour it makes the chinese better. So IS2>IS due to prem and armour.

So lets agree that we disagree.

We were talking about t4 tank. You do realize that? About low tier camping.

 

Also no. I accept the chinese has more heat pen. but 5/6 gun depresion is a big issue for tanks where both of them have rather cheese armor. IS is just better at minimizing exposure. 

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  • S35 CA (bathtub) (300 AP, 330 APCR is crazy high alpha at tier 5)
  • SU-152 (750 dmg at tier 7 is god-like, but sadly the way of the Heatenator will no longer exist in 2019)
  • Tortoise (Use to be the 9 before the deathstar, I doubt many grind to get the Badger nowadays, but this thing, while slow, can be harder to pen than a T95 now with its new armor layout and woe to anyone that doesn't have a repair kit, and btw you thought the cupola was a weak spot?  Good luck getting the shot JUST perfect to pen it.)
  • Type 5 Ke-Ho (I have a tourney buddy that absolutely loves this tank)
  • T71 DA (Used to be the go to autoloader light tank, still is good, even if the meta is the AMC 13 57 now)
  • Chi-Ri (Big as a barn, no armor, no mobility, but fun as hell to play with a clip potential of ~390 and clip reload around 5 to 6 secs, no good for tourneys, but fun for Random battles)
  • Bat Chat 25t AP (tier 9, overshadowed by its tier 10 older brother, huge clip potential of 1800, hard to use in Randoms, but frequently used in Tournaments, extremely agile go-cart of doom)
  • BDR G1 B (slow, only good armor is the side armor, but 240 alpha for a heavy at tier 5 is rare, good for tourneys for trading)
  • ARL 44 (can use the S35 CA gun, 330 APCR is frequently used in tournaments)
  • VK 100.01 P (not sure how "hidden" this one is, but tier for tier, it could be argued this has more armor at tier 8 than the Maus has at tier 10)

I also agree with the Leopard, tier 5.  It may not be as great in Randoms as the Luchs, but it does very well in small team tourneys (good clip or good single shot, plus ramming damage).  It can basically kill a Chaffee single-handedly by a ram/clip rush. 

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I really love the AMX M4 45 with 105mm gold spam. Armor is paper but good mobility, gun handling, and most of all the alpha and DPM really surprises people.

Similar to the Tiger 1 in a lot of ways but the 10 degrees of gun depression and 330 alpha really help it play closer to the front lines than the Tiger 1. Expensive to run but fun to play :)  

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:07 AM, Rexxie said:

Does WoT actually have many "hidden gems" anymore? The slow push of the three tank styles into their own areas of the map make me feel like you're either the hammer or the nail, and rarely in between, making playing anything out of the meta a chore at best. I don't want to turn this into another corridor meta complaint thread, but I'm honestly curious if the current state of things really allows for much in the way of hidden gems. I can see some lights being notable just because they are the only class that is different enough to ignore WG's agenda, but that's about all.

The M6 is kinda cool I guess?

M6 always was a great favourite of mine before i said fuck it all and stopped playing for 4 years straight, the armour is not good but you can pull off some wtf bpunces if you wiggle like a maniac and the gun is incredible, not even counting the APCR pen which burns through the upper plate of many T8 HTs fronts. 

The new Swedish heavy line has the Strv 74 at T6 and the Leo at T7 that are positively incredible, the Strv 74 is a monster with that gun depression and a 150/150 gun with 4s reload and laser gun accuracy (.31) with the dispersion stats of a T9/10 med. The bullshit gun depression leaves you with flanking avenues even in the middle of a slugfest since the tank can shoot from places you wouldn't even think of going in other tanks. It also has workable camo and viewrange and a very decent 200 pen APCR. 

The Leo is, imo, the good version of the T20. It's incredibly fast, gets -10° depression and a 300 alpha gun which performs admirably. It's sort of a better tier by tier version of the Leopard Prototype. 

The Strv is 100% a keeper imo, and I'm seriously considering keeping the Leo as well. They are just so good. Not counting the fact I'm playing like crap and i plummeted down to a greenie/bluish since my hiatus. 

 

On a broader note playing against the meta is still very much possible, only harder. Basically there are some matchups that screw you over really hard, but most of the time of you aren't a potato like me you have several ways to work your magic and facilitate a win. I've noticed (in EU at least) a higher tendency of following rushes and exploting turned turrets for instance. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 12:33 PM, Vampiresbane said:
  • VK 100.01 P (not sure how "hidden" this one is, but tier for tier, it could be argued this has more armor at tier 8 than the Maus has at tier 10)

I found the tier 8 VK to be very good in pub battles.  The armor works extremely well and the gun isn't awful, but you need APCR against many of the tier 10s.  It only took me 89 battles and I played it entire solo in pub battles with a 63% win rate.  

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I would say the SP 1 C is a solid and fun hidden gem. I don't think there are a lot of rear turreted light tanks with -10 gun depression and 90mm alpha damage. It's a whole different experience when you mostly reverse into position to ridge snipe someone for 220 damage and "reverse forward"  0 - 60  in a split second. It's very good at playing ridges without being punished because of that. Playing this tank is really fun also because I always have a valid reason to do easy 180's with the handbrake mechanic. Those weighty drifts never stop being satisfying. It's one of my favorite tanks right now and it's easy to play, shell velocity aside.

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5 hours ago, Casas5591 said:

I would say the SP 1 C is a solid and fun hidden gem. I don't think there are a lot of rear turreted light tanks with -10 gun depression and 90mm alpha damage. It's a whole different experience when you mostly reverse into position to ridge snipe someone for 220 damage and "reverse forward"  0 - 60  in a split second. It's very good at playing ridges without being punished because of that. Playing this tank is really fun also because I always have a valid reason to do easy 180's with the handbrake mechanic. Those weighty drifts never stop being satisfying. It's one of my favorite tanks right now and it's easy to play, shell velocity aside.

That sounds like my cup of tea, i might grind one for LT campaigns tbh. 

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@Autongnosis SP1C for me was like playing an MT as much as an LT. It does defy its shitty paper stats because it can perform both roles well enough. Played as a pure scout will just get you wrecked though as it simply isn’t quick or camo’d up enough. Fun tank.

But HWK 12 is the keeper for me, despite tier 8 MM. Fast. Good heat pen when needed. Same MT support ability as SP1C. Insanely good view range.

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On 12/30/2018 at 5:52 PM, Ham_ said:

SU-100M1 because its stupidly overpowered, with the only balancing factor being mm.

I had the USSR mission to bounce twice your vehicle's HP and someone suggested I re-buy the SU-100M1. I agree with Ham_ it's hilariously funny tank, good gun , amazing armour for tier (really bouncy), easy to bully lower tier enemies by assaulting aka mini-Bobject, and also able to hide in a bush when bottom tier.

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