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_Steel_Casket_

Get Ready for the BIG Fist....Lube Up!

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7 hours ago, _Steel_Casket_ said:

wg is going to do it to us again, they will be re balancing tanks in the game including the Defender that I paid cash for. Thank wg, I'll lube up now......  

That would be great! Do you have any source?

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I own both the Defender and 3A. feel free to nerf both of them into the middle of the sigma pile and I will happily grind credits in them still

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Yeah, I don't know why aspects of the World of Tanks community are so sensitive about nerfs. When it comes to game balance, there is basically two methods of doing it: either everything is overpowered (see Starcraft: Brood War for an example), or you have a constant cycle of buff/nerfs that take place in order to shift meta around and try and keep things from getting too out of hand (see, Starcraft II as an example).

I also don't get the argument about 'we paid real money for it so you can't change it'. In the two games I mentioned, not only did 'things' people paid real cash to get (full priced box plus expansions), with certain units etc. being completely unrecognisable several years down the line after balance patches, but those games also have active professional scenes where some players arguably lost games (and thus prize-money) due to changes in balance. Sure, you see balance whine, but there's nothing like this type of "OMG THEY'RE GOING TO NERF MY PIXEL TANK, I DEMANDS REFUND" rage. I honestly don't get it.

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10 hours ago, _Steel_Casket_ said:

SOOOOOO, you like to pay money for something that will have portions of it taken away from you? Just another way of wg ripping it's players off. 

Are you sure you didn't mistake this for the pub forum? Here we know the problem with WG's handling of wargaming is making the game unbalanced, creating frustrating metas, armor creep, rewarding low skill play, bad mm and bad map design. We don't think the problem is WG not listening to every crybaby in the game. There were premium tank nerfs in the past. You will probably be offered a refund of some kind. Stop crying. 

10 hours ago, _Steel_Casket_ said:

Damn why on't you guys just bend over an take it like a man. You'll let anyone FU over,........

I love how crying like a baby makes you think you're manly. Jesus online games attract a special kind of ppl.

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25 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

and bad map design

I'd happily let WG entirely remove the guns from my favorite premium tanks if they would fix the imbalanced and campy maps and return (adjusted) old ones and add new ones until we had 10-15 more maps. 

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So I was bored and watched yeserdays (07.01 - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/360951704) NA stream. They speak of balancing (and Defender bit specifically starts at 1:37:24) in conjunction with premium ammo rework. The only sentence even hinting at a defender reconfiguration (assumed nerf) is

Quote

So I am going to preface this with we are going to - in the course of the coming year and plus - attempt to rebalance almost every single tank in the game and this is going to be inconjunction with the premium ammo rework ....

This could mean anything or nothing. Technically reworking every single tank except defender would also keep the statement accurate. Hardly a reason to shit yourself over 252U.

TragicLoss however seems somewhat reasonable. She seems to convieniently forget all the times where WG was intentionally secretive and out right lied to its playerbase. Also making a statement that the "Chrysler incident" was not really an issue because "people learned to play around it" is bullshit - the reason Chrysler is not talked about, is because WG has gone even more full retard after that culminating with IS3A to this date. Introducing weakspotless, extremely low skill ceiling tanks is not an accident - it is a marketing strategy which she actually admits during later parts of the stream. All they have to do is make sure the tank seems OP, not make it available via ingame techtree (ie. gold) and profit. So jeah, WG employee doing what WG employees do - speaking the truth when it suits the narrative and speaking half truths where the truth makes WG look shitty.

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I have a Defender, 252U and IS-3A (thank you boxes) and would quite happily see them all nerfed.

Actually I'd very happily have my Defender lower plate made like 150 effective in exchange for some mobility and gun handling. 

And similar for the 3A, more gun handling and mobility for the auto-reloader going to the Italian style away from the idiots style it is now. 

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If this is about the universal "special ammo" nerf, then the Defender is basically getting an HP buff because now premium rounds that do penetrate the ridiculous armor will be doing less damage.

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24 minutes ago, TheChang said:

If this is about the universal "special ammo" nerf, then the Defender is basically getting an HP buff because now premium rounds that do penetrate the ridiculous armor will be doing less damage.

That was actually my thought exactly.  Unless they turn its lower plate into the IS-6 LFP that it should be - nerfing prem ammo will make all of the Bylatmobiles like the Defender even more broken.  I think I actually have a higher armor use efficiency in my Defender than I do in my E-75 or Conq . . . .  

The defender was basically released as a Tier 9 prem that sees tier 6s.  Yeah, nerf that sucker please.

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8 hours ago, tajj7 said:

And similar for the 3A, more gun handling and mobility for the auto-reloader going to the Italian style away from the idiots style it is now. 

The IS-3A use to be a slightly nerfed IS-5 stats wise.  Now the IS-5 is probably the worst regular matchmaking tier 8 Russian heavy.  I played a few battles in the IS-5 recently and it just feels underpowered compared to the IS-3, IS-3A, 252u, KV-4, and even the 110.

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So im going to leave this up for now since it seems to have turned into a thread where some intelligent discussion is taking place.

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12 hours ago, tajj7 said:

I have a Defender, 252U and IS-3A (thank you boxes) and would quite happily see them all nerfed.

Actually I'd very happily have my Defender lower plate made like 150 effective in exchange for some mobility and gun handling. 

And similar for the 3A, more gun handling and mobility for the auto-reloader going to the Italian style away from the idiots style it is now. 

Make lower tier have at least a chance of doing do something to you and at the same time give you a chance when you are bottom tier. Now why would you want that? 

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7 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

That was actually my thought exactly.  Unless they turn its lower plate into the IS-6 LFP that it should be - nerfing prem ammo will make all of the Bylatmobiles like the Defender even more broken.  I think I actually have a higher armor use efficiency in my Defender than I do in my E-75 or Conq . . . .  

The defender was basically released as a Tier 9 prem that sees tier 6s.  Yeah, nerf that sucker please.

Funny thing is, you could probably give the defender tier 9 HP and some more pen, and Itd become a fairly competitive tier 9 tank. 

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7 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Funny thing is, you could probably give the defender tier 9 HP and some more pen, and Itd become a fairly competitive tier 9 tank. 

Probably with like T-10/257 mobility then yes it would. 

Actually making it the first tier 9 premium a la WOWs would be an interesting approach to balancing it IMO. 

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44 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Probably with like T-10/257 mobility then yes it would. 

Actually making it the first tier 9 premium a la WOWs would be an interesting approach to balancing it IMO. 

It would need better handling too. It's broken but the armor profile is actually less effective than 257 so slower and much worse gun handling mean it's 8.5 not 9 not just by hp.

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I'm curious about the less effective armor bit. Does that take into account the guns it faces? Ie if the 257 was also a tier 8 and v.v. would you still feel the same? 

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Shoot me but I'd love if the armor stayed the same but it was nerfed elsewhere, like that retarded best in tier alpha, I'd like to have a heavily armored heavy that isn't a facist box tank tbh. If the KV-4 can be armored and meh the Defender can also be meh with no change to it's armor.

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13 hours ago, hazzgar said:

It would need better handling too. It's broken but the armor profile is actually less effective than 257 so slower and much worse gun handling mean it's 8.5 not 9 not just by hp.

So it would be better than a stock 257, but worse than a fully upgraded one? :) Sounds like something WH would have done 5 years ago.

Would have worked really well before the blatant OP premiums were released.

I’d be happy for it to be uptiered with a credit earning and hp buff and leave everything else as is.

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Since this is turning in to a quasi-Defender balance thread, should WG just Make a separate tier 8.5, with all of the OP tier 8’s in 8.5 [where they will never see tier 6’s] and all of the bad tier 8’s stay at tier 8, where they can never see tier 10?

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Like an inverse pref mm. Actually makes sense. Hence no chance of wg doing it. 

Side note is that the template mm largely made half tiering pretty irrelevant for most battles. 

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23 hours ago, hazzgar said:

It would need better handling too. It's broken but the armor profile is actually less effective than 257 so slower and much worse gun handling mean it's 8.5 not 9 not just by hp.

Might need a tad better handling and bit better mobility but I wouldn't say the armour is worse than the 257.

Defender lower plate is actually slightly better than the 257s, against 225 AP rounds (so decent tier 8 heavy pen) its about 210 - 225 effective, whereas the 257s lower plate is more like 195 - 200 effective, plus the 257s lower plate is higher and bigger IMO, so easier to hit.

Upper plate wise the Defender wins here easily, at worst it's 320 effective front on, ranging up to basically over 350 effective, whereas the 257 is about 245 to 270 effective, this means the Defender can angle the pike (and thus it's lower plate) to hit like 230-240 on both upper and lower plate, so can bully lower tiers and most non-premium spamming tier 8s with ease sitting in the open.

The 257 if it angles the pike, it becomes like 200 effective.

Then there are the turrets, 257 edges the turret fronts because you can go through the Defender mantlet with over 250 pen, but the rest is all pretty much the same being about 270 effective to like autobounce for a lot like most Russian heavy turrets.

Both have two 150mm cupolas, Defenders are a tad taller, but what lets the 257 down is the 30mm roof overmatch area which is massive (like twice the size of the IS3 one if not more) and can be hit from the front if the tank is on the flat.

The only real thing the 257 has going for it is the auto-bounce lower side armour, but then Defender can sidescrape against 150mm guns and bounce, 257 can't do that.

Overall IMO Defenders armour is better and the 257 is hardly poor armoured for its tier, it bounces a lot for a tier 9 heavy.

 

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WG is never going to introduce more complicated MM rules like inverse pref.MM. They have stated it many times and also took actions to reduce the complexity of MM (light tank tiers, attempt to fuck with pref.MM tanks to make them normal MM). My opinion is that they will keep powercreeping shit (and maybe buffing tech tree tanks) until current OP crap like IS3A and Defender seem normal. Tiger2, KV4, TVP VTU and T-34-2 cry silently in the corner....

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I love how the guys here literally turn this post into real

I have both IS-3A before buff and please nerf, I have both 252U and 252U Defender (because thats how you get 70k gold from lootboxes) please nerf.:kappa:

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