Kolni

Wheeled Tank Mechanics

53 posts in this topic

This is a topic instead of an update simply because there isn't a thread on it yet and sharing information could be good on these mechanics so was thinking that it could be a general thread for this mechanic in particular. 

I don't actually have anything of value to share besides some trivia on how they coded it. I was watching Niall play the EBR, and if you activate the boost mode mid-air your speedometer increases but you don't actually accelerate. Obviously you shouldn't, but it does mean that they used IRL mechanics of a speedometer similar to cars where your speedometer is linked to your tire rotation, and that the km/h increase is because the tires don't have resistance during flight so they simply rotate faster. 

 

Also, boost on aggressive slopes and you'll easily clear 50m in air, you can make it from the Glacier ship into the water on the south side which is over a 150m jump to clear. This is absolutely ridiculous. 

At range these tanks also move too fast that to hit a shot with a slow shell velocity (E 100, FV4005 and so on) in x8 sniper mode your turret either moves too slowly, your bloom resets because of how aggressively forward you have to aim to lead, or you have to aim in x4 because your lead has to be so much that you can't actually see the tank in x8, and close up your turret rotation doesn't hold up to catch them. 

 

More gamebreaks, at least you make arty players quit arty by yoloing them into quitting the class altogether since nobody'll be able to hit you for shit. On test server I've made it to arty alive and killed it without the enemy being able to shoot me while driving straight through them all with some minor turns. There's also supposed rumours  (have yet to see any myself though) that using this to boost yourself on top of buildings can break the game and make you clip into them xD

 

1.4 will be the patch that kills the last shred of competitiveness the game had

 

 

you get stupid stuff like this, on the brightside doing races on maps and trying to do certain flips is kinda fun, but this is game is not WoT anymore when these tanks come into the game

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outside of the ridiculous boost potential the tiers 7-9 seem relativity balanced. Another case of the Italians IMO where they will only be good in the hands of a knowledgeable player. 

the tier 10 is another topic of discussion though. While the rest of the tanks fully kitted can only reach around 400-420 VR, the tier 10 can reach 445 by normal means and higher with bonded eq and directives.

this is concerning because it contradicts WG's statement of these not flat out replacing lights:  with the EBR having the speed, camo/camo bonus, and decent gun (HE memes as well) and also good VR with a good crew? i think it comes real close to crossing the line of that statement...... 

still the tanks are loads of fun tho

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3 hours ago, Hellsfog said:

First iteration to get the hype going. Just before release WG will probably nerf them just like the Swedish heavies. 

Every tank line since the Waffle

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1 hour ago, Kolni said:

At range these tanks also move too fast that to hit a shot with a slow shell velocity (E 100, FV4005 and so on) in x8 sniper mode your turret either moves too slowly, your bloom resets because of how aggressively forward you have to aim to lead, or you have to aim in x4 because your lead has to be so much that you can't actually see the tank in x8, and close up your turret rotation doesn't hold up to catch them. 

More gamebreaks, at least you make arty players quit arty by yoloing them into quitting the class altogether since nobody'll be able to hit you for shit. On test server I've made it to arty alive and killed it without the enemy being able to shoot me while driving straight through them all with some minor turns. There's also supposed rumours  (have yet to see any myself though) that using this to boost yourself on top of buildings can break the game and make you clip into them xD

 

This is what I've been worried about, and why I was surprised when they decided to actually introduce wheeled vehicles to WoT. I used to imagine they'd save them for another game. Vehicles that move this fast break the fundamental pace of this game. They don't belong. 

50 minutes ago, Hellsfog said:

First iteration to get the hype going. Just before release WG will probably nerf them just like the Swedish heavies. 

I'm kind of hoping this will be true. Otherwise it seems like some of these vehicles will be cancer. 

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3 hours ago, Kolni said:

but this is game is not WoT anymore when these tanks come into the game

Sadly these will be the yolo scouts that pubbies have always dreamed of. Actual scouting is far too difficult for the bulk of the player base.

WG’s willingness to completely break their own game needs to be commended. What little structure that exists in random battles is gone as long as one of these borderline untrackable things can yolo run through at 105kph. 

But the TD and arty players tears...

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3 hours ago, Tarski said:

 

This is what I've been worried about, and why I was surprised when they decided to actually introduce wheeled vehicles to WoT. I used to imagine they'd save them for another game. Vehicles that move this fast break the fundamental pace of this game. They don't belong. 

I'm kind of hoping this will be true. Otherwise it seems like some of these vehicles will be cancer. 

The few battles I played in tier 6, they were vulnerable to HE spam from other lights. I suppose light tanks will have a new job of killing these things.  Speaking of HE, the tier 6 has a 75mm pen HE round. I am probably wrong but I see that as making the problem worse when this thing is on tier or top tier.  

24 minutes ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

It's like they finally added a vehicle branch specifically for the purpose of jumping the shark.

Anything worth doing, it worth doing right. 

I want to believe a nerf is coming, as it always has, except for the 268 v4...

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Combat wise the vehicles aren't that great, but the speed alone is kind of stupid. As has already been said, they're so hard to hit and can boost/jump so well that they're pretty much gamebreaking right now, especially the Tier 10. (105kph lolk)

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I seriously don't get the issue with boosts. The moments I remember the most in WoT esports are when Applewow got stuck on Cliff and when one russian guy countered a boost vs CanadianImpact in Steppes. It really gave to me more variety to all the maps. I really miss 2014-2016 WoT

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I quoted you on the official forums also because I'm furious about this change - if they will go through with it. Absolutely ridiculous.

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4 hours ago, mati_14 said:

I seriously don't get the issue with boosts. The moments I remember the most in WoT esports are when Applewow got stuck on Cliff and when one russian guy countered a boost vs CanadianImpact in Steppes. It really gave to me more variety to all the maps. I really miss 2014-2016 WoT

Boosts allow the players to play the game in a way that WarGaming did not anticipate. If you can break their corridor-think, you are breaking their game, from their perspective.

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11 hours ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

outside of the ridiculous boost potential the tiers 7-9 seem relativity balanced. Another case of the Italians IMO where they will only be good in the hands of a knowledgeable player. 

the tier 10 is another topic of discussion though. While the rest of the tanks fully kitted can only reach around 400-420 VR, the tier 10 can reach 445 by normal means and higher with bonded eq and directives.

this is concerning because it contradicts WG's statement of these not flat out replacing lights:  with the EBR having the speed, camo/camo bonus, and decent gun (HE memes as well) and also good VR with a good crew? i think it comes real close to crossing the line of that statement...... 

still the tanks are loads of fun tho

445 is shit vr. That still means they have to go sub 400 to spot stationary tanks that are not heavies and will always be outspoted by other lights.

10 hours ago, Crossfader said:

Every tank line since the Waffle

You forget Sconq.

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18 hours ago, mati_14 said:

I seriously don't get the issue with boosts. The moments I remember the most in WoT esports are when Applewow got stuck on Cliff and when one russian guy countered a boost vs CanadianImpact in Steppes. It really gave to me more variety to all the maps. I really miss 2014-2016 WoT

I despise boosts with a burning passion.

Because they utterly destroyed all forms of map balance. There were some absolutely broken spots that made some maps unwinnable from one side. And clan wars degraded into a cesspool of playing 100% around these damn boosts where every single lobby you had the caller saying "can you do the boost?" "i need someone who can do the boost". It was the most unfun period of clan wars in the entire game for me (coupled with the 268v4 meta right after) and pretty much killed a very large portion of interest in this game for me.

 

 

 

Anyway, wheeled vehicles. Agree with everyone else. Broken. Not needed in the game. Bad idea

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Boosts had to go. But why WG removed all the back door exists from elevated shooting positions by sticking giant rocks on every slope...

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It's not surprising everything is too fast, when everything is made too fast compared to their real life compartments. This is not saying that it's the bad thing, but if they were going to do it this way they should have started with the tier 10 armoured cars as the highest mobility, and the heavy tanks as the lowest. Instead, the game weirdly evolved around the tier 4 and tier 5 mobility of light tanks earlier on, and the batchat.

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I don't understand why tanks/armoured cars being hard to hit is a bad thing. There are 5 or 6 'sniping' tanks at tier 10 that currently have no point since shell velocity and accuracy barely make a difference. 

IMO tho it remains to be seen, this will probably punish TDs/SPGs a lot more than meds and non-brick heavies. If this somehow manages to cull TD/SPG numbers (nothing has, so far), I'd be happy with them.

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I haven't found them hard to hit at all, I was hitting them reliably at medium ranges with the T-100 lt and that doesn't have good accuracy (so some shots just missed by going low or high etc.) or that amazing shell velocity for APCR. Most tier 10 meds will have no issue, Russsian tier 10 meds are going to be hilarious against them I think, they'll bounce them and have 50% more DPM, the shell velocity, turret traverse and gun handling to hit the shots. 

Also the T-100 lt pretty much straight up counters these things, you are pretty much as fast to accelerate up to 70kph, you have almost the same camo, much more view range, more health, more DPM and your armour is semi-reliably against their APCR. I played about 10 games in it on test, and once you avoid the initial yolo rush push, you can just dominate them after that. 

Most people on test didn't either, saw plenty of these things get one shot by sh*tbarns (and there were almost as many of them in games as the EBR 105).

The tanks themselves are awful IMO, especially the tier 9 and 10, their guns are close to pointless. 

You gain 8mm of penetration and 200 DPM going from tier 8 to tier 10. (the tier 10 only has about 50 more DPM than the tier 8 premium and effectively only 40 more alpha as well). Plus they have the attrocious penetration drop off at range, at 500m they have 162mm of pen, sub 130mm penetration rolls on a tier 10 tank.

The cruise mode is utterly pointless as well, as its close to uncontrollable at higher speeds, it just doesn't work well with a keyboard input as you pretty much turn 90 degrees with a slight touch on the steering.

Overall I think they are complete utter crap. They go fast in a straight line, often too fast where hit bumps or get air you'll kill yourself anyway, and at medium to close ranges even on the laggy test server people will hit you. Your gun is just not good at all aside being fast to aim with low dispersion, plus the HE is quite nice. 

I think it'll rival the Rhm. for crappest tier 10 win rate if they go live like this, once light players realise that they can't do the yolo spot at the start and hang back, then they can just control the vision game.

Tier for tier the best one is probably the tier 8 because it has tier 8 light gun power, you aren't crippled with the low pen and DPM the tier 9 and 10 have. Well actually the best one is the tier 8 premium which has the two shot autoloader so effectively has 350 alpha with a 9s reload, which is better than the reload of the tier 10 for 390.  It's also surprising no one pretty much better than the tech tree tier 8 in every way. 

Going fast for survival I just don't think has any value in the current meta, once people get used to them on live I don't think these tanks have any real role. 

 

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11 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

I despise boosts with a burning passion.

Because they utterly destroyed all forms of map balance. There were some absolutely broken spots that made some maps unwinnable from one side. And clan wars degraded into a cesspool of playing 100% around these damn boosts where every single lobby you had the caller saying "can you do the boost?" "i need someone who can do the boost". It was the most unfun period of clan wars in the entire game for me (coupled with the 268v4 meta right after) and pretty much killed a very large portion of interest in this game for me.

 

 

 

Anyway, wheeled vehicles. Agree with everyone else. Broken. Not needed in the game. Bad idea

Boosts are still better than turtle strategies.

7 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

Which sniper tanks are you thinking about? Because all the sniper tanks I can think of, also have terrible turret traverse dispersion modifiers.

Naah. Sniper tanks have great turret dispersion but shit hull dispersion. Look at Conway or Leo or for some stupid reason amx 30b. The problem is wg doesn't give those sniping tanks turret dispersion that's better than some russian meds that also get great hull dispersion. 

41 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

I haven't found them hard to hit at all, I was hitting them reliably at medium ranges with the T-100 lt and that doesn't have good accuracy (so some shots just missed by going low or high etc.) or that amazing shell velocity for APCR. Most tier 10 meds will have no issue, Russsian tier 10 meds are going to be hilarious against them I think, they'll bounce them and have 50% more DPM, the shell velocity, turret traverse and gun handling to hit the shots. 

Also the T-100 lt pretty much straight up counters these things, you are pretty much as fast to accelerate up to 70kph, you have almost the same camo, much more view range, more health, more DPM and your armour is semi-reliably against their APCR. I played about 10 games in it on test, and once you avoid the initial yolo rush push, you can just dominate them after that. 

Most people on test didn't either, saw plenty of these things get one shot by sh*tbarns (and there were almost as many of them in games as the EBR 105).

The tanks themselves are awful IMO, especially the tier 9 and 10, their guns are close to pointless. 

You gain 8mm of penetration and 200 DPM going from tier 8 to tier 10. (the tier 10 only has about 50 more DPM than the tier 8 premium and effectively only 40 more alpha as well). Plus they have the attrocious penetration drop off at range, at 500m they have 162mm of pen, sub 130mm penetration rolls on a tier 10 tank.

The cruise mode is utterly pointless as well, as its close to uncontrollable at higher speeds, it just doesn't work well with a keyboard input as you pretty much turn 90 degrees with a slight touch on the steering.

Overall I think they are complete utter crap. They go fast in a straight line, often too fast where hit bumps or get air you'll kill yourself anyway, and at medium to close ranges even on the laggy test server people will hit you. Your gun is just not good at all aside being fast to aim with low dispersion, plus the HE is quite nice. 

I think it'll rival the Rhm. for crappest tier 10 win rate if they go live like this, once light players realise that they can't do the yolo spot at the start and hang back, then they can just control the vision game.

Tier for tier the best one is probably the tier 8 because it has tier 8 light gun power, you aren't crippled with the low pen and DPM the tier 9 and 10 have. Well actually the best one is the tier 8 premium which has the two shot autoloader so effectively has 350 alpha with a 9s reload, which is better than the reload of the tier 10 for 390.  It's also surprising no one pretty much better than the tech tree tier 8 in every way. 

Going fast for survival I just don't think has any value in the current meta, once people get used to them on live I don't think these tanks have any real role. 

 

Yeah I'm not excited for them at all. I have 1300 battles in my elc even and I'm trying to 3 mark all my lights and I'm not even touching those. 

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why would you even use the standard APCR on the tier 10 when you have meme tier HE rounds that have tier 10 heavy alpha and have enough penetration to fuck over light armored vehicles and side or rear armor.

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I played them a bit on the test server. They don't work with these physics. Uncontrollable and the slightest bump while turning will slow you down to a crawl if not kill you right away. I also got hit by arty for 600 going 105kmh...

This either do for a suiscout or wait until you can isolate targets.

But Can you imagine the wn8 for doing just above 1k dmg?? haha

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10 hours ago, Strigonx said:

why would you even use the standard APCR on the tier 10 when you have meme tier HE rounds that have tier 10 heavy alpha and have enough penetration to fuck over light armored vehicles and side or rear armor.

You do like 150 damage with non-pens, and with all the auto-aiming you do its RNG if you actually pen anything, at other EBRs half the time you'll just hit the wheels or the gun. 

Plus the DPM is still crap, its 2.5k with HE if you pen every round, which you won't.  The Super Conq gets 120mm pen HE, with 515 damage and has 3.7k base DPM using that round. The 5A has like a 1.5s faster reload for its 490 alpha AP FFS, shit DPM is Shit DPM regardless of the HE round.

High pen HE, HESH etc. all these rounds are just gimmicks and rely on RNG more than anything and most of the time what you actually use them against other tanks can pen with their normal HE anyway (like most lights, Grilles, arties etc.) It's like the high pen HE on the GF Bulldog or the Cent 7/1, yeh its nice to have, its a little bonus, but in practicality with the way those rounds work, plus all the RNG, they add very little to combat effectiveness of those tanks. 

It's like a placebo, you pen one of these rounds, see a high damage roll and you get a good feeling and think they are good, but you forget the other three that did like 100 damage and that you'd have done more damage overall with your standard round.  

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