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Supertest Swedish Heavy Buffs (?)

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So the Swedish heavy's just got updated stats in Suptertest, and the changes are.......something 

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emil2.png

emil1.png

Across the board they all lose a shell in the clip and in return get increased Alpha, Faster Drum reloads, and slightly better intra-clips 

IMO These Changes are arguably a downright Nerf, The Two main issues the Swedish heavy line suffered from was

A: Penetration

B: Gun Handling

But for whatever reason WG has decided to change the tanks altogether instead, making them Budget TVP's with some turret armor.

And frankly this doesn't give me much hope that they will properly balance/Buff the Other tier 10's they mentioned at WG fest being the E100/IS4/ & Leo 1

Thoughts?   

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If the damage increase was bigger I'd support those changes 100%. The Emil should be 390, Emil II and Kran should be 480-490 or maybe even 520. 

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Yeah gun handling and pen are the main problems with these tanks. So of course WG completely ignore these issues. They should rename the company to Dumb & Dumber. 

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They won't increase pen because this seems to be their new heavy tank meta. Unless it's a reward tank or a RU heavium you get 300-310 prem pen on t10s. 240 prem pen on the t8 is also same as on the Polish tonk

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The gun handling on these tanks is maddening. My only hope is that this is only the first effort at tinkering with these tanks and WG will eventually get around to addressing the more obvious problems. 

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Who notices how bad the pen is when you can't ever hit anything to begin with because of the bloom.  The only real upside is the clip reload is nice, even losing a shell.  The gun is so shit I rarely ever get to use 4 shots anyway, so getting 3 in 21 seconds is nice. 

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I'm fine with this but they need a combination of better gun handling and better intra clip reload. I'mat the Emil I for months, I hate it. 

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I like smaller clip size and shorter reload. With the terrible intra-clip getting out a full clip of 4 is usually not going to happen. You get out two or three and then you either need to get into cover or your opponent has pulled back. 

But, as the other here have said, that isn't the big problem with these tanks. The terrible gun handling and poor penetration is a terrible combo. When I finished the Emil II grind (no, I haven't bought the Kran, why would I?) I was loading HEAT most of the time. The standard ammo would work the majority of the time if you could sort of hit the general area around a weak spot at close range. This is not the case. Forget aiming for the lower front plate of that T-10 at 100 meters. Aim for the hull with HEAT and you may just connect two out of four shots. Assuming he sit still. And is down wind.

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the Intraclip before was ass and now its just farts: Clip dumping is still impossible but now slightly more likely on non repair kits
fuck losing the 4th shell and getting 10% more alpha. Say what you will about DPM but no ones scared of that. Cant sustain that fire rate, cant pen much frontally
the clip reload is now workable so you arent useless for 40 seconds other than as a exp pinata
Accuracy remains ass
Pen is.... I'm not sure. I've never hit anything with my gun outside of 100m on Ensk

how is any of this a buff?
I enjoyed the hell out of my Emil 1 and that was the highpoint of the heavies. 

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2v45cz.jpg

I concur with everyone else: these changes don't address what's wrong with the line. Alternating clips between the dirt and ricochets isn't super fun. Reigning in the RNG with gun handling and a bit of HEAT pen would work wonders. Throw in an intra-clip buff and I'd be a happy camper. 

Also, it has been a while and there are more superheavies now, but I really liked playing through the Emil I. It's the tier 9 and especially the 10 that need adjustment. I do like the idea of trying to make them more unique by deviating from the usual recipe of 4x400, but doing that without dealing with the gun stats that are actually problematic won't make the high tiers desirable. 

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Seriously the only way the ass gunhandling and low pen could work if the shot alpha went way up not 10% up

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at this point im looking forward to the Larsen so i have someplace maybe useful to put my good swede crew in

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I actually quite like these changes, its WG thinking out of the box for once.

Yes the gun handling of these tanks is shit, BUT, buffing the gun handling starts encroaching on the French heavy autoloaders (and to an extent the medium autoloaders generally).

IMO the issues with the Swedish heavies were a combo of shit factors.

Bad pen + bad handling + slow clip + long reload. 

You'd miss and bounce a few shots, the target would pull back before your clip had finished and then you couldn't do sweet FA for 30s. 

I had some good results in the Emil 2 when grinding it, but by DPG started dropping below 3k because the thing just couldn't keep up with the pace of the game, you'd trundle to your position, get hull down, clip someone out, either the combo of slow clip speed or gun handling/pen would mean at least 1-2 of the shots does no damage, you go for the reload and by the time you were going through your next clip half your team is dead.

The gun handling on the T57 is a LOT worse than the Kranvagn, but it spits out damage so quickly it doesn't matter and at close range you absolutely brutalise people.

So this will work in a similar way, the pen is still poor so that is an issue, but you'll be popping out 1.3k damage in 5.5s and reloading ready to go again in 20s. 

Less painful at medium to long ranges because you have the ability to put out for more shots so more will stick and more brutal at close range

It also moves the Kranvagn away from having to be in some awkward place between the the T57 and 50b. 

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19 hours ago, tajj7 said:

I actually quite like these changes, its WG thinking out of the box for once.

Yes the gun handling of these tanks is shit, BUT, buffing the gun handling starts encroaching on the French heavy autoloaders (and to an extent the medium autoloaders generally).

IMO the issues with the Swedish heavies were a combo of shit factors.

Bad pen + bad handling + slow clip + long reload. 

You'd miss and bounce a few shots, the target would pull back before your clip had finished and then you couldn't do sweet FA for 30s. 

I had some good results in the Emil 2 when grinding it, but by DPG started dropping below 3k because the thing just couldn't keep up with the pace of the game, you'd trundle to your position, get hull down, clip someone out, either the combo of slow clip speed or gun handling/pen would mean at least 1-2 of the shots does no damage, you go for the reload and by the time you were going through your next clip half your team is dead.

The gun handling on the T57 is a LOT worse than the Kranvagn, but it spits out damage so quickly it doesn't matter and at close range you absolutely brutalise people.

So this will work in a similar way, the pen is still poor so that is an issue, but you'll be popping out 1.3k damage in 5.5s and reloading ready to go again in 20s. 

Less painful at medium to long ranges because you have the ability to put out for more shots so more will stick and more brutal at close range

It also moves the Kranvagn away from having to be in some awkward place between the the T57 and 50b. 

The idea is good but the Alpha is still too low to really be different. If it went by 20-25% then yeah they'd play different. They would still not be broken since even at 480-490 alpha a 3 shell clip is less than a 4 shell clip of other heavies. 

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8 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

Id rather have good pen and shit handling than shit pen and good handling

so far this tank has neither 

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On 3/5/2019 at 9:46 AM, hazzgar said:

The idea is good but the Alpha is still too low to really be different. If it went by 20-25% then yeah they'd play different. They would still not be broken since even at 480-490 alpha a 3 shell clip is less than a 4 shell clip of other heavies. 

There is only so far you can push 120mm alpha though really without it looking silly.

Plus 1.32k damage in 5.5s and a reload in about 20s is only 1s slower clip output than a TVP and its a similar reload time. 

I also suspect that the gun handling might also get tweaked a little after testing to be a little better. 

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10 hours ago, tajj7 said:

There is only so far you can push 120mm alpha though really without it looking silly.

Plus 1.32k damage in 5.5s and a reload in about 20s is only 1s slower clip output than a TVP and its a similar reload time. 

I also suspect that the gun handling might also get tweaked a little after testing to be a little better. 

The thing is TVP is fast so it gets to see the sides of tanks. It also gets a faster shell so it's better at longer ranges.

 

Also I don't agree about 120mm looking silly. It's not like there are any rules in this game anymore. 130mm guns start from 440 at SU100y and end up at 570dmg. 128mm guns can be 560 and 490. Just make the 120mm gun 480 or 470 even. 

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49 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

Just make the 120mm gun 480 or 470 even

Don’t. Alpha creep sux as much as all the other creeping-leaping going on in this game.

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The simple fact is that its not a heavy tank, it cannot fight against heavy tanks because it lacks the ability to hit weak spots or pen heavy tanks.  You have to go with meds and try to bully lower tiers and soft tanks that dont have armor.  More DPM just means you're going to miss/bounce faster.

I actually wish they would give the Kran the option of the historical 150mm gun instead of the autoloader, that would fit in way better with the current meta.

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13 hours ago, sohojacques said:

Don’t. Alpha creep sux as much as all the other creeping-leaping going on in this game.

Making the tank another well handing autoloader is boring though. Maybe they should go the opposite and go with less alpha, faster intraclip. Just make it different not a crappy t57 with a good turret.

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Funny thing is 120mm guns on the swede meds get 20more alpha. For those thinking 120mm gun with more alpha made no sense.

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I doubt that 460 is going to go live, even in the video they didn't sound too sure about it, I reckon it'll get nerfed to 440 or 420. 

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10 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Making the tank another well handing autoloader is boring though. Maybe they should go the opposite and go with less alpha, faster intraclip. Just make it different not a crappy t57 with a good turret.

I think it should be changed to a single shot gun. Stronk turret with awesome gun depression has little to do with being an effective auto loader; you can’t lock down a line of fire from a ridge line when you have to fuck off and reload your clip all the time. The proposed shorter reload would help here at least.Outside of the NW on Westfield or a coast push on Live Oaks the clip/turret combo is kinda pointless. 

I guess you can always valley push on Lakeville? Cool, if there’s no arty, no S. Conq or super heavy which you can’t pen...fuck this game.

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On 3/7/2019 at 9:46 PM, sohojacques said:

I think it should be changed to a single shot gun. Stronk turret with awesome gun depression has little to do with being an effective auto loader; you can’t lock down a line of fire from a ridge line when you have to fuck off and reload your clip all the time. The proposed shorter reload would help here at least.Outside of the NW on Westfield or a coast push on Live Oaks the clip/turret combo is kinda pointless. 

I guess you can always valley push on Lakeville? Cool, if there’s no arty, no S. Conq or super heavy which you can’t pen...fuck this game.

Single shot would make it no different to a Conqueror. 

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