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Wargaming is proposing buffs for some tier 10 meds and nerfs to others. Source here.

Yes, not only will they be nerfing the 430U, the 430 will also get a bit of a nerf hammering. Substantially less DPM (unclear if the reload is changed or if they fiddle with the alpha) and worse gun stats.

Not a word on the Chinese meds. Someone might need to remind Wargaming they are still in the game.

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The STB-1 changes will be retarded even taking siege mode into account, whereas the AMX-30 gets magically better for some reason, and probably still not good enough.
The Tier 9 430 does not need a nerf - it already has to contend with shit pen in an age where you need 330 HEAT for like half the targets you meet. With these nerfs it will join its brother the V2 in the trash can of WoT history. ABsolutely disgusting.
To be fair the Leo changes look fairly promising but that's because it was so shit to begin with. Don't think the changes will be enough to make it competitive though it will be fun.

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STB - unplayable. Also those shell velocities. APCR slower than AP? 

Leo - a real buff.

AMX - better than STB and Leo.

430U - that's a joke. It barely looks like a nerf.

Even if those changes were 100% perfect giving e-orgasm to every WoT player they're still meaningless without at least global armor rebalance (not saying a word about arty and maps).

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2 minutes ago, Kolni said:

nope leo is a straight up nerf too because nerfing the heat from 330 to 315 is a bigger nerf to its gameplay than all of the buffs combined

Leo is getting AP as standard shell and APCR as expensive shell, which is a pretty good buff.. unless I remember wrong it's been a few years.

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3 minutes ago, LamaLeif said:

Leo is getting AP as standard shell and APCR as expensive shell, which is a pretty good buff.. unless I remember wrong it's been a few years.

ah, missed out on the clause at the bottom

then it's a pretty decent buff actually, giving it high pen apcr is actually very very big because there aren't any single shooters with high mobility that have that in the game

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I agree which is why my immediate response was to think, shit I finally moved my crew out of the Leo1 which I hadn't played for years before I finally quit.. now I may end up spending gold to put them back in.

I haven't played random battles for years, will these buffs and nerfs change much? I'm certainly intrigued by the Leo1 changes because I love fast tanks with good gun and depression,, but in a corridor map meta how useful will it really be compared to taking a more armored option?

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Am I the only one disappointed that WG has still neglected to make STB-1 unique by giving it something resembling its historical...

"LAD" that puts out the first 3 rounds in 4 second intervals?

 

As for the actual balance post.

Pretty standard 'well its WarGayMing.'

 

Leopard buff project is commendable but I do not think it is a good idea. Namely, big alpha, mobility, gun depression, at once, does not seem to be 'fair' to the Chinese mediums. But of course, fuck Chinese meds.

STB-1 buff project is... I don't know how to feel about it. But 0.37 accuracy is a big middle finger for anyone trying for Free To Play.

430 should have been a tier 10, and stayed that way. WG did not make a good decision there, and naturally has followed up in typical stupid people fashion of 'doubling down on initial mistake is the solution'.

30B is still... A special snowflake.

 

It's interesting though; that WG is thinking of changing around the alpha for 'variety' purposes. Perhaps more realism could be had in the next debalancing.

inb4 WG releases decent map.

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As if I had any hope for WG left at all. 

Fuck them. Fuck them fuck them fuck them fuck them.

 

Fucking ruining the STB. Nothing in that patch does anything for what it fucking needs. It needed fucking like 0.2 off its aim time and slightly better bloom on the move. Maybe some turret armour. But they have to go and do all these drastic, fucking retarded changes for NO FUCKING REASON. It doesnt even need fucking seige mode. Seige mode will ruin it as well if its like the fucking STRVs siege mode.

 

Fuck WG. I legit want to just quit the game over this.

 

Edit: holy fucking shit they've literally just transposed the STB with the 30B except made the stb worse than the 30b. While buffing the 30B to what the STB should fucking be.

 

FASJGJNSXBDACJRACHWAGKUTTF FUCK WG

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40 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

As if I had any hope for WG left at all. 

Fuck them. Fuck them fuck them fuck them fuck them.

 

Fucking ruining the STB. Nothing in that patch does anything for what it fucking needs. It needed fucking like 0.2 off its aim time and slightly better bloom on the move. Maybe some turret armour. But they have to go and do all these drastic, fucking retarded changes for NO FUCKING REASON. It doesnt even need fucking seige mode. Seige mode will ruin it as well if its like the fucking STRVs siege mode.

 

Fuck WG. I legit want to just quit the game over this.

 

Edit: holy fucking shit they've literally just transposed the STB with the 30B except made the stb worse than the 30b. While buffing the 30B to what the STB should fucking be.

 

FASJGJNSXBDACJRACHWAGKUTTF FUCK WG

You do realize that giving STB1 0.09 dispersion on the move/hulltraverse is among the best in the entire game right, I think only 140 has better at 0.08 but I didn't look through all the meds just the most similar ones. It also means it could get the swedish medium suspension which seems incredibly useful from the video explaining how that works.

STB1 dispersion stats right now 0.15 moving, 0.15 hull traverse, 0.13 turret traverse

30B dispersion stats right now 0.12 moving, 0.12 hull traverse, 0.04 turret traverse

I probably won't bother with either tank, unless the STB1 actually do get the swedish medium tank suspension.

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11 minutes ago, LamaLeif said:

You do realize that giving STB1 0.09 dispersion on the move/hulltraverse is among the best in the entire game right, I think only 140 has better at 0.08 but I didn't look through all the meds just the most similar ones. It also means it could get the swedish medium suspension which seems incredibly useful from the video explaining how that works.

STB1 dispersion stats right now 0.15 moving, 0.15 hull traverse, 0.13 turret traverse

30B dispersion stats right now 0.12 moving, 0.12 hull traverse, 0.04 turret traverse

I probably won't bother with either tank, unless the STB1 actually do get the swedish medium tank suspension.

Doesnt fucking matter all the other nerfs ruin it. 

 

Lowest pen at tier 10, less speed, less alpha. Fucking derp gun levels of shell speed

Siege mode will ruin it even more if its like the swedes. 

 

Fuck WG in the ass.

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1 hour ago, Assassin7 said:

Doesnt fucking matter all the other nerfs ruin it. 

 

Lowest pen at tier 10, less speed, less alpha. Fucking derp gun levels of shell speed

Siege mode will ruin it even more if its like the swedes. 

 

Fuck WG in the ass.

its reportedly getting a turret armor buff as well, this is unconfirmed but if true could make it bearable if combined with the hydro suspension. 

also alot of people seem to be missing out on the 232mm of pen At 500m.

 

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The hydrosuspesion change could be good if it had *almost* RU med gun stats.

By which I mean trading 4* normal gun dep, for 6* more in siege mode, and say, 0.1/0.1/0.07 bloom.

Or something like the burst I was talking about plus some smaller gun stat boosts.

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Hilarious they state not seeing many 430Us on the battlefield was some kind of balancing  parameter... like wut? WG I don't think balance means what you think it means...

Plus WG if you think 430Us are a rare, what about Chinese mediums? That is some rocking  horse shit level of rare there then.. could it possibly be that no one plays Chinese mediums for a reason WG?

Does this mean the Centurion Action X is seen as perfectly balanced once these other changes go through? 

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2 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Doesnt fucking matter all the other nerfs ruin it. 

 

Lowest pen at tier 10, less speed, less alpha. Fucking derp gun levels of shell speed

Siege mode will ruin it even more if its like the swedes. 

 

Fuck WG in the ass.

I'd wait before complaining as they have not mentioned any nerfs to the HEAT shell meaning that de facto you will have 330 heat with 360 alpha. So a 140 with better depression and alpha. 

To me it all depends on how good the AP at close range is (but only because I dont have the credits/will to spam premium)  and more importantly how strong the turret will be. Practically WG wants a hull down tank with great DPM that can fight at close range.

The Leo instead is finally carving itself a better niche as a long range sniper. Now it all depends is they change the camo rating and how much they will lower the P/w.

30b's buffs are deserved, maybe they should add a tiny little more mobility to the mix and nerf a bit the dpm in exchange.

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Nerf to the 430 is probably significant enough for me to just play the T10 instead (instead of umming and ahing between the two). I suspect the 430U’s soft stats are good enough to overcome the aim time nerf. And of course it’s armour remains intact...

STB: poor @Assassin7

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7 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

I'd wait before complaining as they have not mentioned any nerfs to the HEAT shell meaning that de facto you will have 330 heat with 360 alpha. So a 140 with better depression and alpha. 

To me it all depends on how good the AP at close range is (but only because I dont have the credits/will to spam premium)  and more importantly how strong the turret will be. Practically WG wants a hull down tank with great DPM that can fight at close range.

The Leo instead is finally carving itself a better niche as a long range sniper. Now it all depends is they change the camo rating and how much they will lower the P/w.

30b's buffs are deserved, maybe they should add a tiny little more mobility to the mix and nerf a bit the dpm in exchange.

Its still losing shell velocity.

And top speed - and it was already slow to begin with. 

Yes I noticed that pen at 500m, but to me it seems stupid that they'd say that rather than saying "we've made the pen drop off more" because putting it as a stat like that makes it unclear. Also id rather the gold was APCR than HEAT.

 

The 30bs changes are deserved yes. Same with the leo. But Id rather they left the STB alone than do what they are currently doing.

If they removed the shell speed nerf at least on the gold (if its APCR, on standard if its HEAT), removed the top speed nerf, and the pen nerf (assuming that is its standard pen and not just a pen dropoff over distance nerf) it'd be quite a decent buff.

 

I will wait to try it, but in the last 2 years WG has not given me a single reason to trust them whatsoever. So I dont trust them. At all.

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4 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Its still losing shell velocity.

And top speed - and it was already slow to begin with. 

Yes I noticed that pen at 500m, but to me it seems stupid that they'd say that rather than saying "we've made the pen drop off more" because putting it as a stat like that makes it unclear. Also id rather the gold was APCR than HEAT.

 

The 30bs changes are deserved yes. Same with the leo. But Id rather they left the STB alone than do what they are currently doing.

If they removed the shell speed nerf at least on the gold (if its APCR, on standard if its HEAT), removed the top speed nerf, and the pen nerf (assuming that is its standard pen and not just a pen dropoff over distance nerf) it'd be quite a decent buff.

Shell velocity can be compensated by leading your shot. If can manage to hit moving targets on a HWK anyone can hit with 1k shell velocity (which is the same of the E5)

If the AP is 250-258 it is the same pen of the 5A and E5 which are usable. Then again the 2 key will solve many problems (hello t54)

The few games I played the Stb1 it did not feel slow at all. I guess the top speed nerf sucks but it gains quite some horse power meaning that it will be faster at climbing hills. And the 48 is plenty to get around (113 and 62a  are fast enough). The Fatton goes at 45 and it has no problems to decap ect.

As I said it mostly depends on the turret armour: if that is on SConq levels then it could be even OP as the sprem solves the pen problem. 

 Also notice that they do increase the DPM  by that tiny bit that could allow it to get the rate of fire down to a low 5 second or even a high 4 so that would be fun to see (although the extra alpha would be better probably) 

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21 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

Shell velocity can be compensated by leading your shot. If can manage to hit moving targets on a HWK anyone can hit with 1k shell velocity (which is the same of the E5)

If the AP is 250-258 it is the same pen of the 5A and E5 which are usable. Then again the 2 key will solve many problems (hello t54)

The few games I played the Stb1 it did not feel slow at all. I guess the top speed nerf sucks but it gains quite some horse power meaning that it will be faster at climbing hills. And the 48 is plenty to get around (113 and 62a  are fast enough). The Fatton goes at 45 and it has no problems to decap ect.

As I said it mostly depends on the turret armour: if that is on SConq levels then it could be even OP as the sprem solves the pen problem. 

 Also notice that they do increase the DPM  by that tiny bit that could allow it to get the rate of fire down to a low 5 second or even a high 4 so that would be fun to see (although the extra alpha would be better probably) 

Try hitting an EBR going full clat with 250 ping. Quite often high speed APCR is the only way I can.

62A is crap BECAUSE its so much slower than the 140/907. It was my biggest issue with it when I tried to play it last. STB is fine now, but is still more sluggish than the 140 etc. Either way It doesnt need a speed nerf at all. (Or the VR nerf but fuck it)

If the base pen is still the same, its fine. If the base pen is 232 like it says on that thing (and not just the dropoff value) then its absolutely aids.

And if they implement seige mode for it exactly like the swede TDs (and these stats are for it in siege mode or something) then its literally completely worthless, an aggressive med that takes 2 seconds to get into its DPM mode and can only do like 10kph while in it? Yeah that'll end well. If its a dynamic suspension mode that just auto activates whenever you depress the gun far enough to give you more dep and nothing else, then it'll be pretty cool.

 

But again, I dont trust WG in the slightest.

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16 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Try hitting an EBR going full clat with 250 ping. Quite often high speed APCR is the only way I can. 

Ah, so it's not just me then... I hate wheeled vehicles just for this. High ping makes hitting them a freaking nightmare.

As for the changes... my poor 430, I didn't think it was overpowered at all. :( The 430U nerf doesn't seem that significant and it will likely remain very good, unless its gun handling actually is enough to make it 'bad' like it is supposed to.

STB seems strange, nerf its penetration and shell velocity and some other stuff in return for dispersion buffs and the medium tank siege mode? I get it will make it more unique but the penetration nerf seems way too much for a tank that is, in their own words, supposed to 'brawl' which means fighting super-heavies frontally on most maps.

Leo could be interesting, but it's still a paper tank in a corridor meta.

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The STB-1 penetration change is just more pen drop off, so they want to make it worse at longer ranges I suppose to be the opposite Leo 1. 

Also I am presuming the standard 258 APCR it currently has, changes to 258 AP, which is actually beneficial as with the greater normalisation that is basically more pen at closer range and it has HEAT for longer range work. 

Supposedly its getting a turret armour buff as well, I think the quality of that and the special suspension will make or break this 'rebalance', I am not sure why so much need to be changed, why it needs so much nerfing.

Same goes with the Leo 1, don;t see why the reverse speed, traverse, engine power, HP etc. needs nerfing, just give it the straight up buffs and there is no way it would be OP. It's hardly strong now, but at least these buffs make sense. A nice high AP pen 420 alpha punch, high pen APCR to back it up as well and it almost keeps the same shell velocity on AP. 

30b just seems to have reverted to more its old self, from before they did those changes, it's just getting the best bits of its original rebalance and getting the accuracy, pen, shell velocity back it used to have.

The elephant in the room though with the STB-1 buff is the new UDES medium, that has the suspension, goes about 50kph, has -13 gun depression, has 440 alpha, not great view range, amazing turret armour, it has been designed for the role they setting up the STB-1 to do, but probably does it better. 

Also the Cent AX surely feels a little meh with all these changes, its not really doing well in any category, its already struggling against the Fatton, now the new Swedish med, the STB-1 are better hull down ridge workers, the Leo is now a way better sniper and the 30b is going to be the better all rounder.  Also it's 0.13/0.13/0.12 dispersions are looking even worse as well. 

The 430 nerfs IMO are warranted, too easy to play that tier 9 med IMO.

As for the 430U, whilst I welcome nerfs, really they needed to tackle the armour, namely giving it pennable cupolas IMO. 

 

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