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3 hours ago, leggasiini said:

Yeah, HE tanks are cancer, but it says how fucked up the meta is at tier 10 when some tanks are almost like balanced around it.

Ranked is going to be a mess, though with the new XP system I suspect that there’s going to be at least some variety compared to previous seasons. Guess I’ll just play 60TP and spam hulldown SConqs and other shits with HE :serb: 

I made it to top league 1st normal season by spamming HE with the VK7201 lol. Cheaper than spamming gold too! Haha

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12 hours ago, Kolni said:

:novaserb: 

sorry dude but this is a case of you not knowing how to play it and nothing else

it has been and will still be the strongest tech tree t10 in the game since it's release because it can reliably hit shots at any range, hulldown and reliably pixel snipe and sidescrape while being able to fire back against anything but HE and 160mm+ guns

 

that it gets spammed by arty a lot is not a solution or a situation that makes the tank any worse

any tank is dogshit when it gets spammed by arty, and you solve it by more defensive positioning which is what the sconq is so strong at anyway

 

i think ur not valuing the ability to hold any position and remain insanely hard to push enough, sconq is honestly just as defensive of a tank as an e3 and it doesnt work very well for pushing but it does work insanely well for poke trades and farming tanks trying to push into it and that's how you play it

it's one of the tanks that benefits more from playing losing engagements rather than winning ones and while it's not a concept a lot of people play towards this is where you see people get absolutely insane averages on the sconq

the chieftain is a decent example of a tank that trades that same defensive ability for a more aggressive one because of the gun handling tradeoff for better mobility

 

it is actually impossible to push an sconq at 300m unless your entire team is doing it with you, that's why it's so strong

Considering I have 3 marked the Conqueror, and have just 3 marked the E5 in the same meta, nah I don't think it is. I know how to play it,  its nowhere near a bad tank but most people, including you massively over rate it IMO. 

And the stats back me up, the WR curve for it is average at best, and on recents its declining. Most good players are getting about their win rate in it, so its hardly the stellar tank many people claim it to be. In fact the 60TP has a better WR curve, giving slightly better performance for most players which makes sense to me as the alpha is so valuable.

You say its a great defensive tank, yes it is, but not only are half the tier 10 heavies able to roadblock hull down like that (as I said pretty much every corridor or city is littered with perfect hull down rubble for Russian tanks) but being a great defensive tank is irrelevant in the current meta when no one pushes.

The current meta is super campy, no one commits, no one is aggressive, you go play the heavy corners or flanks and people just hide waiting for you to push.  Everyone camps and waits for other to drive into them.

There is IMO very little value in the current meta in a defensive tank, as everyone is on the defensive, they are waiting in OP base camping positions for someone else to push.  Plus when you need to push or do something because your other flank is failing, you can't because the tank is not good at it. 

In one game I went to the building side in Pilsen, you are facing hull down Russian heavies you can't pen, you can't cross that massive gap because you are too slow and the lower plate is too weak. Those other tanks do not commit, they barely peek, so what exactly do you do, you have a massive gap to cross where you are slow and weak, you can't trade well, you can't pen those hull down tanks because even if there are weakspots no tank is hitting them reliably at 100-200m. You can't go the other side because its too open, your are too slow and there are 3 arties. So you basically hope people feed you damage and that your other flank doesn't fall, but neither happens that often.

You are describing it strong for game situations that basically don't exist.

No one pushes a hull down Super Conqueror at 300m, they don't bother. 

And yes arty craps on everything, but more mobile tanks can move and relocate, russian tanks are covered in spaced armour and other tanks just have better thickness.  Super Conq has not of that, its huge, slow, paper thin from above with little spaced armour BS. If arty has a different heavies to go for, its going to go for a Super Conq. 

It is IMO the most over rated tank in the game. It's very far from bad, but in reality what it can do, most other tier 10 tanks can do almost as well and they are far more flexible and versatile to go with it. 

 

 

 

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This game won't be balanced. 


If you haven't accepted that fact, you really should get around to it.

WG prefer the game imbalanced with constant power creep to get existing players to free exp tanks. A large enough proportion of the playerbase just free exp the tier 10 they want, so might as well have a decent amount of tanks a class above. 

 

 

Scone is just blatantly OP though. Hot on the heels of the E5 cupola nerf, they literally brought out a tank that was better than the E5 pre cupola nerf.

It just gets under the radar because of the:

  • Type 5
  • 268 4
  • 430U
  • Arty
  • 907
  • Chieftain/T95
  • Shitbarn
  • 5A
  • 277
  • 260
  • Whatever the next flavour of the month tank will be.

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I'd actually get the Leo if that change went through.

What the actual fuck is that STB nerf/buff/throw-some-different-stats-on-the-screen changes???

30B looks decent imo.

I just go the 430U and I'm doing shit in it right now. I do better with gun depression...

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2 hours ago, concep said:

I'd actually get the Leo if that change went through.

What the actual fuck is that STB nerf/buff/throw-some-different-stats-on-the-screen changes???

30B looks decent imo.

I just go the 430U and I'm doing shit in it right now. I do better with gun depression...

And here we have an issue.

Re-Read the premise.

"I'd actually get the Leo if that change went through."

Playing WOT is the error.

"I just go the 430U and I'm doing shit in it right now. I do better with gun depression..."

Still grinding in WOT I see.

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5 minutes ago, Oicraftian said:

And here we have an issue.

Re-Read the premise.

"I'd actually get the Leo if that change went through."

Playing WOT is the error.

"I just go the 430U and I'm doing shit in it right now. I do better with gun depression..."

Still grinding in WOT I see.

What are you talking about? You're on a primarily WoT forum, what do you expect?

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25 minutes ago, zavar said:

Looks like there was outcry with the proposed 430/430U changes and they have been cancelled.
https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2019/04/26/changes-to-the-object-430-and-object-430u-canceled/

Russian nationalism strikes again

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I see it as a good thing that the proposed nerfs failed, since they took the approach of making the 430 and 430U frustrating to play and didn't actually change how frustrating they were to play against. Their statistics almost certainly reflected that.

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8 hours ago, Kolni said:

KcmRYBi.jpg?1

????????????? :doge: ???????????????????

Is this recent and is this better than your 1115, 60TP and other tanks? Since I kinda get Tajjjs point. Even 3-4 months ago Sconq was much better than it is now. Meta is super toxic and mobility and alpha have really gained in value. 

7 hours ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

This game won't be balanced. 


If you haven't accepted that fact, you really should get around to it.

WG prefer the game imbalanced with constant power creep to get existing players to free exp tanks. A large enough proportion of the playerbase just free exp the tier 10 they want, so might as well have a decent amount of tanks a class above. 

 

 

Scone is just blatantly OP though. Hot on the heels of the E5 cupola nerf, they literally brought out a tank that was better than the E5 pre cupola nerf.

It just gets under the radar because of the:

  • Type 5
  • 268 4
  • 430U
  • Arty
  • 907
  • Chieftain/T95
  • Shitbarn
  • 5A
  • 277
  • 260
  • Whatever the next flavour of the month tank will be.

So it's not OP it's just powercreep since it is worse than trully OP tanks but better than super powercreeped one. T10 balance is shit and the difference between worst and best in tier tanks are huge. 

 

Also 277 should not be here. Wr curves say it's average. It's a worse 1115. 

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1 hour ago, zavar said:

Looks like there was outcry with the proposed 430/430U changes and they have been cancelled.
https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2019/04/26/changes-to-the-object-430-and-object-430u-canceled/

Jesus fking christ. They are such utter pussies it's not even funny. It's not that nerfing those tanks in that exact way was the way to go. It's the armor combined with mobility and alpha that's the main problem and none of the changes addressed any of those. But to say that they are simply cancelling the proposed changes instead of finding other ways to balance the tanks is just utterly retarded. So, very much the essence of the Wargaming business plan. 

It also confirms just how little they actually know about the game. Proposing those exact changes did that, and now just dropping the issue when anyone can see the 430 and 430U are OP as shit just reiterates the point.

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48 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

Is this recent and is this better than your 1115, 60TP and other tanks? Since I kinda get Tajjjs point. Even 3-4 months ago Sconq was much better than it is now. Meta is super toxic and mobility and alpha have really gained in value. 

It isn’t mine. It’s Kolmiopaavos, 

My SC DPG is lower, but compared to the other tanks mentioned it is easily the best. I have my highest DPGs in 50B/907/Leo1 (believe it or not) because I excel in those tanks. 

SConq is however the most safe pick I can think of for a high DPG avg, kinda like the E50M in 2014 there are no bad maps for it and it has all the necessary tools to get a good game off in every single MM/map combo possible which no other T10 tank has right now. There are no bad Sconq maps and it has no problems with full T10. That alone makes it very good. It’s OP in its gun stats so you have a consistently abuseable trait on top of that to make it very good. 

It is close to gamebreaking because it overperforms for the top. It’s too easy to play for what it can do without requiring any mechanics whatsoever

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2 hours ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Russian nationalism strikes again

While I'm not sure about the nationalism, I would agree WG is making poor decisions.

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3 hours ago, zavar said:

Looks like there was outcry with the proposed 430/430U changes and they have been cancelled.
https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2019/04/26/changes-to-the-object-430-and-object-430u-canceled/

By far WG’s shortest testing period ever. 

Sounds like all the proposed stats for the Leo, etc, have been canned as well.

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1 hour ago, Kolni said:

It isn’t mine. It’s Kolmiopaavos, 

My SC DPG is lower, but compared to the other tanks mentioned it is easily the best. I have my highest DPGs in 50B/907/Leo1 (believe it or not) because I excel in those tanks. 

SConq is however the most safe pick I can think of for a high DPG avg, kinda like the E50M in 2014 there are no bad maps for it and it has all the necessary tools to get a good game off in every single MM/map combo possible which no other T10 tank has right now. There are no bad Sconq maps and it has no problems with full T10. That alone makes it very good. It’s OP in its gun stats so you have a consistently abuseable trait on top of that to make it very good. 

It is close to gamebreaking because it overperforms for the top. It’s too easy to play for what it can do without requiring any mechanics whatsoever

I get that it gets high DPG since when it works it farms like a dream but I'm more interested in WR (Tajjj mentioned wr curves). A tank like Sconq will have higher peak dmg games because it's an amazing farmer but I assume some other tanks will have a higher influence on the game because of being able to flex while still having a good presence and being able to push key areas on the map. 

 

Also I think you may be biased since you often do good in tanks that work good in punishing mistakes vs pushing (hence all the mentioned tanks). 

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46 minutes ago, sohojacques said:

By far WG’s shortest testing period ever. 

Sounds like all the proposed stats for the Leo, etc, have been canned as well.

Jesus christ. Thats like, 3 days. 

Leo and 30b buffs are good, theres nothing wrong with that. Im still not a fan of STB changes. But the 430u needs to be nerfed.

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16 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Jesus christ. Thats like, 3 days. 

Leo and 30b buffs are good, theres nothing wrong with that. Im still not a fan of STB changes. But the 430u needs to be nerfed.

 

Think there’s been a lot of backlash over the STB changes as well. It’d be hilarious if they concluded that the Leo and 30b were being over-buffed.

430u..... 

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Just now, hazzgar said:

I get that it gets high DPG since when it works it farms like a dream but I'm more interested in WR (Tajjj mentioned wr curves). A tank like Sconq will have higher peak dmg games because it's an amazing farmer but I assume some other tanks will have a higher influence on the game because of being able to flex while still having a good presence and being able to push key areas on the map. 

 

Also I think you may be biased since you often do good in tanks that work good in punishing mistakes vs pushing (hence all the mentioned tanks). 

Unless you filter the WR only taking into account skilled players only, it's completely pointless. Do you really want stats about players with low understandings of the game? Probably 268V4 still has the highest tier 10 WR, because it's hard to deal with even though it's not the top pick for good players.

SC and 430U are powerful in every single scenario and sadly, HE has been the only thing holding them back. 277 gun is aids, 260 can't sidescrap vs +270mm pen, 5A same thing, IS-7 is alright but low pen APCR makes things hard vs types, 430Us and SCs.

If you manage to set up 1v1 situations, SC should win most of the time, if you can't, you can still play a support role because the gun allows it. And we are not even talking about fighting lower tiers, you sit hulldown, and unless arty hits you, you are completely inmune to tier 8 and a lot of tier 9. SC should definetely be nerfed. A tank with its characteristics should never get that DPM and gun handling.

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1 hour ago, sohojacques said:

 

Think there’s been a lot of backlash over the STB changes as well. It’d be hilarious if they concluded that the Leo and 30b were being over-buffed.

430u..... 

glad on the backlash lol.

I want them to rethink it. they're going about changing it in the wrong way.

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IMO the 430 is alright - it's OP af versus low tiers but fares very poorly against heavier tanks which are everywhere these days. The nerfs would have completely gutted it and made it worse than the 120. The reasons its stats stand out is because it has no stock grind. A shitter like me has difficulty maintaining anything above 2K dpg in it, whereas 2.4K would be a walk in the park in tanks like the WZ, T-10 and AMX. 

The 430U debacle OTOH could have easily been solved with a top speed nerf to 40 or 45 and a DPM nerf to something like 2.5k. So as long as it stays as it is like the Super Conq it will be the yardstick against which all new tanks are measured against which is absolutely terrible for what is left of the game's 'future'.

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IMO the 430U needs a more weakspots. A bit less armor on the lower front plate and cupolas that are actual hittable weakspots would help. Do that, reduce the reload a little and cap speed at about 45ish and you have a decent start to balance this thing.

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16 hours ago, mati_14 said:

Unless you filter the WR only taking into account skilled players only, it's completely pointless. Do you really want stats about players with low understandings of the game? Probably 268V4 still has the highest tier 10 WR, because it's hard to deal with even though it's not the top pick for good players.

SC and 430U are powerful in every single scenario and sadly, HE has been the only thing holding them back. 277 gun is aids, 260 can't sidescrap vs +270mm pen, 5A same thing, IS-7 is alright but low pen APCR makes things hard vs types, 430Us and SCs.

If you manage to set up 1v1 situations, SC should win most of the time, if you can't, you can still play a support role because the gun allows it. And we are not even talking about fighting lower tiers, you sit hulldown, and unless arty hits you, you are completely inmune to tier 8 and a lot of tier 9. SC should definetely be nerfed. A tank with its characteristics should never get that DPM and gun handling.

I specifically mentione WR curves not tank WR. Please read my post again. Also if you remember how SC WR curves looked and you look at them now you see the tank performs worse even for purples. 

 

Also you are wrong about SC and 430U being powerful in every single scenario. They are actually powerful in opposite scenarios. 430U is relatively bad at defending. Yeah it has armor but gun is nowhere near as good at punishing people pushing into you. On the other hand the tank is faster and it survives pushing better. One is offense one is defense. 

 

Also again - look at WR curves. The meta on all maps has changed and tanks that play defensively are not good for winning even if they are good for farming. For the same reason cheese wedges took a hit to WR curves. 

7 hours ago, Kymrel said:

IMO the 430U needs a more weakspots. A bit less armor on the lower front plate and cupolas that are actual hittable weakspots would help. Do that, reduce the reload a little and cap speed at about 45ish and you have a decent start to balance this thing.

Imho I'd do it in 2 parts. First give armor weakspots, wait 2-3 months and think about touching speed. Though making it go 45 with weaker armor would make it an inferior 277.

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20 hours ago, Kymrel said:

Jesus fking christ. They are such utter pussies it's not even funny. It's not that nerfing those tanks in that exact way was the way to go. It's the armor combined with mobility and alpha that's the main problem and none of the changes addressed any of those. But to say that they are simply cancelling the proposed changes instead of finding other ways to balance the tanks is just utterly retarded. So, very much the essence of the Wargaming business plan. 

It also confirms just how little they actually know about the game. Proposing those exact changes did that, and now just dropping the issue when anyone can see the 430 and 430U are OP as shit just reiterates the point.

Like arty removal? They know it's bad, they have admitted it is toxic but couldn't remove it because they were afraid of their player base (russian mostly) and now they can't because you need it to remove OP tanks in OP positions. 

Anyone who plays ranked or CW knows that some tanks are impossible to deal with without big HE guns. 

WG cant/doesnt want to fix the game so they can only make it worse

 

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