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3 hours ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

Apparently we're done with armor creep premiums, now it's on to alpha creep.

alpha creep is all around us. the new swedish T10 med gets 440 alpha. the 430U gets 440 alpha. the 121's singular defining feature has since been obsoleted. the IS-3 used to have the highest tier 8 heavy alpha at 390. that used to be high.

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13 hours ago, hiipanda said:

I never mentioned the e75, so i don't know why you're bringing it up.

 

Amx 49 has 250 turret front with a weak commader's hatch and a strong ufp. It could be same with the vk 7501 commander's hatch since the values for it haven't come out yet.

Cos its the standard response when everyone mentions that line and moving tanks, they say move all the tanks down with their stock guns basically when its really not needed. 

The only tank in that line that is really struggling is the Tiger 2, the rest are fine or would be fine with some slight tweaks (i.e E100).

German cupolas never seem to be that weak and that one does not look very big. Plus the M4 49, has a crap handling 300 alpha gun. Also the upper plate of this thing is probably stronger than the M4 49s, which is about 230 - 240 effective, this is 180mm, and the E75's upper plate is only 160mm, so I reckon this thing is going to have about 270-280 effectiveness on the upper plate and it'll be able to angle, whereas the M4 49 has shoulders which weaken it when angling. 

I am fulling predicting that this thing's lower plate is going to be over 200 effective straight on that cupola is going to be the only weakspot frontally and it's not going to big or that weak. 

IMO pretty much armour, mobility, alpha, and gun handling would need nerfing on this tank to make it balanced, it's basically a tier 9 tank with tier 8 hit points and penetration. 

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16 hours ago, tajj7 said:

IMO pretty much armour, mobility, alpha, and gun handling would need nerfing on this tank to make it balanced, it's basically a tier 9 tank with tier 8 hit points and penetration. 

So, basically, its perfect as a tier 8 premium?

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On 5/1/2019 at 11:41 PM, Tman450 said:

alpha creep is all around us. the new swedish T10 med gets 440 alpha. the 430U gets 440 alpha. the 121's singular defining feature has since been obsoleted. the IS-3 used to have the highest tier 8 heavy alpha at 390. that used to be high.

when everyone gets a buff, no one is buffed

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IMO E75 cannot go to tier 8 - this would be obviously absurd. I can see two possible solutions:

1) Give Germans historical pen values. Currently, Germans have 30-degree pen values. 88/71 should have ~230mm pen, 105/68 should have ~250. This would help them counter the increase in T8 bunkers. Give them better accuracy, bloom, etc. (particularly tiger II) to allow them to be powerful support heavies.

2) Shift Tiger I to tier 6 (L/56), Tiger II Tier 7 (L/71), with historical engines and stuff. Put in E 50 (H) as Tier 8 (or some other plausible Tiger II replacement, E 75 Ausf. A with weakened hull armor?) with stronger tiger II turret and 105/68. This would make the Tigers play more as true heavies at their tiers and be viable without weird ahistorical weaponry and engines. 

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1 hour ago, conjay810 said:

historical

Can we just accept the fact that there's nothing historical about the game to begin with? Historical accuracy is not and cannot be an argument for anything related to gameplay.

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On 5/2/2019 at 5:41 AM, Tman450 said:

alpha creep is all around us. the new swedish T10 med gets 440 alpha. the 430U gets 440 alpha. the 121's singular defining feature has since been obsoleted. the IS-3 used to have the highest tier 8 heavy alpha at 390. that used to be high.

Actually that would have been the T34 (which also sacrificed basically everything besides penetration to get that alpha).

 

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34 minutes ago, nemlengyel said:

Actually that would have been the T34 (which also sacrificed basically everything besides penetration to get that alpha).

 

The T34 was tier 9 back in the days I'm talking about. But at some point yes, same issue.

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On 5/6/2019 at 1:15 PM, conjay810 said:

IMO E75 cannot go to tier 8 - this would be obviously absurd. I can see two possible solutions:

1) Give Germans historical pen values. Currently, Germans have 30-degree pen values. 88/71 should have ~230mm pen, 105/68 should have ~250. This would help them counter the increase in T8 bunkers. Give them better accuracy, bloom, etc. (particularly tiger II) to allow them to be powerful support heavies.

2) Shift Tiger I to tier 6 (L/56), Tiger II Tier 7 (L/71), with historical engines and stuff. Put in E 50 (H) as Tier 8 (or some other plausible Tiger II replacement, E 75 Ausf. A with weakened hull armor?) with stronger tiger II turret and 105/68. This would make the Tigers play more as true heavies at their tiers and be viable without weird ahistorical weaponry and engines. 

No shit.

They aren't even historical pen values. 

No. Their positions are fine as is with WarGay physics.

 

Like I said earlier. The solution to buff Tiger II isn't just to make it another DPM aids hose that can always kill you in 5 hits, and has a turret that forces you to shoot gold into it. Or make it spam armor.

I think, this idea of mine has merit

Reduce the frontal turret vulnerabilities; the cheeks, bolster the turret face (a bit, say, to 200mm) and buff gun bloom, followed by the 900 hp engine that could only work in WarGay dreams.

 

On 5/6/2019 at 2:31 PM, Haswell said:

Can we just accept the fact that there's nothing historical about the game to begin with? Historical accuracy is not and cannot be an argument for anything related to gameplay.

To begin with, his idea isn't even 'Historical', especially when taking into account armor angle affects. 

Historical accuracy... Was probably a good thing. Its like if the GOT show stayed with their source material. 

9gag-horse-game-of-thrones.jpg

This is because, like the show writers, except probably even worse, they don't know how to balance by themselves.

As we all know the amazing successes of the Wargay balance department, reducing their hand in the development of tanks should be done at all times.

Historical is best used as a basis for a buff to an underperforming vehicle, but not as a basis to deny a buff to an underperforming vehicle, is a sentiment I think we can agree with.

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seems like this tank is going to be released soon, as reports form the official EU forum say they have seen CCs driving around with it. 

Sadly tanks.gg is still bugged when it comes to armor. But there are alternatives. 

http://wotinspector.com/en/webapp?targetVehicleId=56081,59410,51731,34836&mode=xray.armor&platform=pc

And some RU video showing it

 

Only 50mm side armor :poi:

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It's out today on EU, bought one because at the moment its absurdly cheap at £25, which is cheaper than many of the meds, and I'm wondering whether WG has made an error.

No idea whether its any good, though on paper the turret looks decent enough, looks to be a strong sidescraper and it looks fairly mobile for a German super heavy, plus whilst the gun handling is crap, its 490 alpha on tier 8 with decent pen. 

 

 

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It seems the alpha is the only good thing about it. Watched Skill try out the armor. Lower plate seems to be a proper weakspot, as well as the cupola. And I'm fine with that. It might be cheaper than many other tanks but it's a pass from me. I don't like slow heavies, and if I get the urge I have the Lowe and Defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJGSkjRklTQ

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5 hours ago, Kymrel said:

It seems the alpha is the only good thing about it. Watched Skill try out the armor. Lower plate seems to be a proper weakspot, as well as the cupola. And I'm fine with that. It might be cheaper than many other tanks but it's a pass from me. I don't like slow heavies, and if I get the urge I have the Lowe and Defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJGSkjRklTQ

200mm lower plate cries in Tiger II

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1 hour ago, Tman450 said:

It's still over 200mm effective though.

no actually 

its about 190mm on flat terrain/equal ground. dosen't hit 200+ unless your angling it.

Working armor model here:

https://armor.wotinspector.com/?targetVehicleId=56081,59410,51731,34836&mode=xray.armor&platform=pc

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21 hours ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

no actually 

its about 190mm on flat terrain/equal ground. dosen't hit 200+ unless your angling it.

Working armor model here:

https://armor.wotinspector.com/?targetVehicleId=56081,59410,51731,34836&mode=xray.armor&platform=pc

Wow that's weaker than I thought, sorry bb. I thought we had another Defender LFP on our hands.

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The lower front armour is weaker than people expect. It is alot like VK1(P)  the lower armour isn't very strong. Chrysler for instance has a stronger lower front. This tank is okay. It is not good, like a Liberte. But on the other side, it is not bad, like a Tiger ll.  The armour is mostly over estimated, but still workable. Like an E-Hundo, it is has armour yes, but also has clay feet. 

************

  On 5/1/2019 at 10:47 AM, tajj7 said:

Tiger 1 is more than fine at tier 7, plus the E75 would be broken as all hell at tier 8 unless the armour was heavily nerfed.

Really only the Tiger 2 is the issue and I think if they fixed it a little it'd be fine, buff roof armour so no overmatch, buff turret front to like 220 or something, buff the mobility up a little so it can go like 40kph on flat ground, and make the gun have high DPM, shift the HP to like 1750.

You'd then have the Tiger 1 on tier 8, not great armour, decent mobility, ok turret, high hit poiints, high DPM. 

-------------------------------

As for this abomination, @leggasiini pretty much covers it.

OP as all hell, I don't even think a weak lower plate would balance it, which it probably is not going to have if its following the Pz 7/VKB style. 

A Super heavy with normal heavy mobility, borderline bad medium gun handling and TD alpha, what could possibly be wrong with that? 

I agree on Tiger I

Tbh I'd rather have the 900 hp engine that would light itself on fire break at 700 hp IRL than a bullshit turret roof buff. New turret research can replace Tiger II's 105/52 gun research. Buff the gun bloom on movement to keep the handling on par.

Turret frontal should not hit 220. About 200 to stop tier 6/7 gold is more than enough. One issue here is the cheeks creating a large weakpoint, 80mm --> 100mm will stop them from being pierced, without pushing the turret sides overboard.

Additionally, this reinforces a good habit; shooting vertical armor. So it is a healthy armor change. "Do not shoot cheeks dumbfuck" signal.

Damage per minute I do not think should be a focus. Simply, improving the gun handling

My reasoning is this:

  1. Tiger I has the ability to kill an enemy tank in roughly 6 shots.
  2. Tiger II has the ability to kill equal tier enemy tank in roughly 4.5 shots.

So, if it has high DPM, it is DPM creep. To make it a 'different' tank than the Tiger I, making it more 'accurate' when moving, as well as improving mobility, I think is the correct path. Its armor will benefit from the 'reduced exposure' kind (from less aiming), and it combines well with a 1000 m/s AP shell velocity.

- { Getting onto topic } - 

In my baddie trash opinion.

This is retarded.

The armor is, as everyone has mentioned, very good, too good actually. Typical WarGay will give it no weakspots cuz WarGay.

0.19/0.19/0.15 bloom is ridiculous for a heavy tank, 2.59 second aimtime and 0.374 acc... 380 viewrange cuz bunkers should have decent VR too right?

But of course! 226 AP pen, 490 alpha, 920 m/s shell velocity, 1858 DPM, gotta have that TD gun with average tier 8 DPM. 

And of course, non omega bad mobility.

Why after all this time.... Not just make it a tier 9 CW tank?

************

 

I want to elaborate how stupid this post is. This tank sure, can slap people for almost five-hundred damage, okay. It also is a size of a house, has no gun depression, has a front engine that gets damaged every front pen.....with a lower front weaker than Chrysler. Hull body roof is only fourty, gets over-match. Turret roof only fourty, slapped by over-match. Really the armour is just intimidating to those who don't know it yet. It has bad DPM  (compared to alpha tanks like Prototyp, 252Y, IS3)  bad soft gun control like T34Hvy, the view range is lower than expected, HP is lower than expected.....the tank is an alpha gimmick, but other than that its lucky if par. It is better than Brecher, sure but piece of shit like 112 is better than Brecher. 

Apparently though, this slavic pro rusky baboon, thinks that it is alright to have have an IS7 in tier 8, with a toned down obj 26O gun, with IS4 side armour, and an obj 257 side shot trap. Because fuck sakes, there is no problem at all with 252Y, when the front 2/3rd of the tank is even immune to prem HEAT from obj 416. Seriously, look at it:

Def252.jpg.16a7722d9d8c504f4a329750f1986af1.jpg

Thats 317 pen HEAT, 2/3rd of the tank is no hit red. GG   Who the fuck thought that was great, to add into tier 8? obj 252 is still one of the, if not the most, broken things this game still has, and unlike obj 268 V4, won't be changed because WG hates back tracking prem tanks. Then defender has awesome alpha, awesome pen, still the same DPM of an IS3, almost as quick, almost as sleek and small.....wait its a super heavy that is also reasonably small?.......This baboon goes on to say five hundred dmg shots are op, with that velocity.....then omits the Defender thats been here for 2 fucking years, with just fifty less alpha for more than one hundred more DPM, better gun depression, better gun soft stats, better armour, better mobility, less weak spots, smaller size, more camo....Defenders prominent weakspots, the cupolas are quite small, and the lower hull is the strength of IS7s, AKA Tiger ll upper hull. Nice. 

Like, I don't care if you are Russian. But you have been poisoned to the point of blind nationalism, you are a bigot, that shares WGs malice to spread this shit within an online game. This is the 21st century you boob. It is because of you, your people, your kind, that tanks like obj 9O7A, 26O exist, or WG thought it was fine to release obj 268 V 4. And for 6 months, CW teams were fielding 6-9   268 V4s. It is not my place to insult you, you are just being a blind, imbecilic, unreasonable clot.

Too lazy to read? I just ground out front lines an entire week, with tanks like panther 88. 2O3mm AP pen, enough for VK75 lower front, even at ten degree list, two-hundred m  away. Try penetrating defender like that. AKA,  bounce all the time and cry in the corner while it slams into you for over four hundred,  or just equip prem rounds before hand, to shoot its --weakspot--

 

 

 

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You also have to laugh he's replied to comments made about the tank way before release when it was released with way better super test stats as well.

Since then lower plate has been nerfed, DPM was nerfed, gun handling was nerfed IIRC. 

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9 hours ago, tajj7 said:

You also have to laugh he's replied to comments made about the tank way before release when it was released with way better super test stats as well.

Since then lower plate has been nerfed, DPM was nerfed, gun handling was nerfed IIRC. 

Definitely, I am laughing alright. Laughing that they last moment nerfed the tank in its inception, rather than......Defender getting outrageously buffed?

 

Def252.jpg.f30abac13187e6d3079ff0c52031035b.jpg

1)  Shot trap increased to 45mm, up-armoured 15mm respectively. No over matches any more from below calibers of ~94mm, over match requires gun like Conway or Type 4/5 as minimum caliber

2) Roof increased 25mm respectively, can't over match like IS3/4/5/6

3) Hull increased a whopping fourty mm armour. What an outrageous boost, to an already auto-bounce angle. They nearly doubled the armour

4) Lower hull increased a nifty twenty mm, puts effective lower plate *weakness* like that of IS7, in tier 8. Nearly the strength of King Tiger or T54 upper glacis plate.....

5) Gun was first planned like Korovets standard 122, like IS5. Gave it its own gun, increased alpha by fifty pts, last minute DPM increase....Etc. Laughable indeed.

 

So........with a mediocre platform, they nerf it last minute. But with an already op platform, they buff it.  Laughable, indeed. Hilarious. Is this just as hilarious, as taking back and removing the russian med planned nerfs, while they discussed the STB1 and Leo 1? or allowing obj 268 V 4 to be how it was, for what 8 months? 

Don't be a tool.

 

 

 

 

 

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