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[High Level Gameplay] - Laying a Solid Foundation & Increasing Consistency

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Update, ever since I read this post I stopped griefing my stats for the most part and I'm slowly getting back to where I used to be and improving past that so correlation = causation obviously

13 hours ago, mati_14 said:

HS

I reached close to the top of the EU/Asia ladders and I still got tilted every other hour I played during that time, I think some people with some games are just capable of performing at a high level regardless of tilt/emotional reaction

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When I platoon with CrabEatOff, we focus on winning above all else, unless we stated beforehand that we had other goals such as missions or marks for that session. We work together and play tanks that synergize well to maximize our chances of winning. Yes, there are a lot of wins that just happen, and there are a lot of "unwinnables", but the games in-between (the carries) are where I get the most enjoyment from WoT. The important thing, like others have said, is to ignore the things you can't control and focus on what you can learn and where you can improve. If I lose a game, I look to see if there is anything I could've done differently, and mark it down mentally. If we lost and I have done literally everything I could to win, I mentally consider it a win because I know I played my part perfectly. Be honest with yourself with your personal evaluation and avoid blaming others, you can change yourself, you're not going to be changing pubbies. 

My only issue with the damage farm mentality, is a lot of new or learning players see "damage/WN8 > wins" and never learn things like map control, how certain maps work (what controls what) or how maps progress. In -G- we had this issue a few weeks ago with one of our callers getting after some fairly recently recruited players who were making poor positional and threat focus choices in CW related to winning. When their defense is how much damage they did, or how much WN8 they have, you know there's an issue.

I really enjoy watching Kolni or others of his caliber play, and I learn a lot from it. There are loads of different playstyles, and I think it's good to use pieces of others' to build what you enjoy. I just worry about the "green to freshly purple" range of players who are joining during the damage farming era of WoT and never learn a lot of basic winning principles. 

Players of Kolni's caliber know how to win, but also get a large amount of wins from sheer damage farming. Whether your focus is winning or damage, the principles are the same. Do your best, learn from your mistakes, and only worry about what you can control.

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On 5/9/2019 at 11:04 AM, WhatTheSkara said:

So, I have a small but relevant (at least for me) question.

Let's suppose you're in a mid/top tier autoloading heavy like a Emil 2, fairly armoured and the gun is scary at close ranges, and no matter the map or mm nobody goes to fight for key positions (C1 on serene coast, middle on glacier, 0 line on steppes just to name a couple), you have top/mid tier mediums trying to brawl lower tier superheavies and systematically lose, leaving you and your team with little to nothing to work with.

What would you do?

 

Because that's what has happened to me in the past 3 days, all in said tank.

 

You need to learn how to give things up. The biggest mistake a lot of people is playing alone. Key positions obviously have their value but staying alive matters more. When things like these happen you have to think on your feet and come up with the best answer you can. There are really shitty games I've had where I couldn't figure out what to have done better. Arty pens and fires are a lot of those games for me, in theory I can play with more arty safety and plan out my trading better to avoid getting engine/fuel tank hits. I don't though, it becomes way too complicated and would get in the way of game quality. I've gotten a lot better at both dodging arty shells (tracking reload timers and moving unpredictably/going dark when I know they're reloaded) and minimising critical hits (sometimes it's better to give the HP up to not risk a track shot when rep kit is on CD and so on, basically resulting in poking further out and giving an LFP shot instead of a sprocket shot despite it being a bigger target, especially against autoloaders to guarantee the 1 for 1 instead of risking detrack-repkit-detrack situations) but most of the time playing 100% safe from everything just results in worse games than taking some risks will. Good gameplay walks a fine line in the limbo betwen playing to win and playing not to lose.

TCAmir777 was incredibly good at this, as his gameplay was focused a lot more around playing safely than most people. The less sugar coated way of putting it is that he was very good at redlining. His PC netted him 17FPS gameplay so I'm assuming gameplay at range just made it easier for him to play. He wasn't doing any Gandaran type of shit (only rendering 300m or PC couldn't run WoT) but he was rivaling X3N4 for best player on the server at the time with an entirely different playstyle that netted similar results in almost all stats. Assist numbers were lower but people gave 0 fucks about assist back then and T10 wasn't as overbuffed as it is now so there weren't 50+ people being able to 4,5k DPG+ tier 10s like there is now. It was from this guy I picked up using arty reload timers to time my trading windows. The point being is that you don't always have to be aggressive or even fight for these things at all. There is reactive gameplay that generates just as good results, and when your team is collapsing this type of gameplay is incredibly efficient. There are games where X3N4s gameplay would have won games Amir's would've lost, and the other way around. X3N4 played up close and micromanaged his way into winning important engagements while Amir played his own team just as much as the enemy into his results.

An Emil II won't work very well at range, both because autoloaders want opportunities to clip and because the gun doesn't handle well enough at long range. You obviously can't redline in this sort of tank like you can a 50B. I never played the Emil II, and I haven't played any of the swedish heavies since the gun rework so I don't have anything concrete to give you. But in broad strokes you need to re-evaluate the situation and not let it get in your way. Your team not even fighting for C1 on Serene Coast at all is still better than fighting it and decisively losing. I don't go there much anymore personally because it's difficult to see in advance how it'll play out since you don't get any information on how many tanks are going there before you peek that ridge, and then it's already too late to fall back if you think you'll lose it. The swedish heavies are very gimmicky tanks though, but instead of playing to the tanks strength you might want to consider playing the map. The thought process of strong turret, good gun depression and burst damage translating into going for strong map positioning involving ridges is a good idea, but you should try and recognise when it won't work to zone in on what your tank is good at but play towards what the best possible game will be. There are a lot of positions on close to every map where you can hulldown, and while they might not be traditionally important positions they will probably end up being the best ones available. If you were to be losing the 1-2 line on Steppes (from either sides) you have enough positions to hulldown to keep falling back systematically while remaining hulldown until you're on the 9-0 line. Start thinking about how you can use your tanks qualities in a safe way. Swedish heavies have a lot of stopping power, but stopping power only works if actually pushing you won't be feasible for the enemy. The best situation is probably when you can make them think you are pushable but really aren't. That's a mindgame though and probably wishing a bit, but sometimes it happens.

TL;DR: Ask yourself where you can safely be on the map while playing to your tanks abilities. Where you can be in relation to your team safely while still being able to contribute to the game. In the Emil I'd imagine it's any position where you can deal damage, use your turret but not get pushed. Next step would be including a way of falling back in case you misread the situation and can get pushed. One step further would be doing it in places where you have the ability to go dark and some vertical cover against arty and the ability to rotate unspotted. As you get better at a tank you can keep adding things like this as the previous ones become natural.

16 hours ago, mati_14 said:

-snip-

For learning to be fun it needs to in a field where you enjoy. You either enjoy things because you're naturally good at them or you find them interesting enough for the learning process to be worthwhile. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just the way I see it. 

There are psychological implications in everything, it is the study of the mind after all. If you managed to climb up the standings in one field the odds are you're able to do it too. Jordan's baseball career was a bust but you have League players role-swapping and remaining world class where the entire game plays out differently. Bale played left back in Spurs and being good at it before swapping over to an offensive position. While you're playing the same game you are doing it with everything else being different but the set of roles and the football on the field. A lot of the qualities overlap obviously, but the meta is entirely different. People are able to do it because they find it enjoyable enough, or enjoy being good at it enough to keep pushing. Most people never leave silver in League no matter how much they play, just like the average WoT player with 100k games is still average after subjectimg themselves for so much of the game. Other people are great at every game they play because improving is an important part of the experience to them. WoT and LoL are the only online games I've been bad at but still kept playing and improved. That is me by all means. Being good = fun. I think it's more that fun comes out being good than something being fun naturally makes you improve though.

Sort of related but is more about League/IRL:

 

With League I've been spending time expanding my champ pool now as I need to diversify. You can see that in the same way. I liked Shaco so I onetricked him right from the get-go. After hitting level 30 and watching a lot of streams/videos on the more subtle parts of LoL and Shaco mechanic interactions I climbed to Plat after 3 months of ranked. League is similar to WoT in a lot of ways when it comes to the gameplay. Mechanics and micro can easily take you all the way to D1/Master (which'd equal to superunicums in WoT, probably unicums above 3500wn8 in broad strokes) but if you wanna hit Challenger then macro matters. I've been learning Jax top recently. With Jax I've been having about a 50%WR in Plat with some practice tool use and normals to get the hang of him at the start by learning trade patterns. That is literally all I did on a new champ to keep stay in place when I should drop hard. Stacking up my passive, always having push so I have minion advantage and waiting for them to either miss an ability or use it on the wave is all I'm doing right now because juggling anything else along with CSing is too hard, but that alone takes you places further than most people actually reach no matter how much time they spend playing. It's just micro, takes maybe a month of using your free time on pro-active learning but most people are simply unwilling to do that despite it being so easy and a lot of people being so eager to improve despite not being able to. I'm not one of those people and that's true for a lot of people on the forum too, some are fine with playing casually and there's nothing wrong in it but you do have the people desperately trying to improve at something they enjoy but somehow can't figure out how despite all the information being available to them. Only at the end of the spectrum does it actually get tricky IMO. End of the line is where information is scarce and you need to come up with answers on your own. There's videos of Tryndameres winning games doing 0 damage to champions in silver. People playing LoL should realise how ridiculous this is. No trading, no kills to snowball or participating in teamfights whatsoever. For those who don't it is basically equal to loading up a WoT battle without ammo and still being able to achieve positive winrates. It really is doable as anyone playing a light has had a game of being useful without dealing damage should know, obviously not every game but macro plays a big enough part to make this possible while removing all mechanical interactions that is a fundamental part of the game.

I think that for a macro type of thinking in games, or forward-thinking ideas in the real world it requires this type of thinking. A lot of people struggle with basics

2 hours ago, _Steve said:

Update, ever since I read this post I stopped griefing my stats for the most part and I'm slowly getting back to where I used to be and improving past that so correlation = causation obviously

I reached close to the top of the EU/Asia ladders and I still got tilted every other hour I played during that time, I think some people with some games are just capable of performing at a high level regardless of tilt/emotional reaction

As did I but in WoT of course. Pulled some of my better achievements off during mega-tilt and keyboard warrioring my team. Tilting doesn't have to get in the way of improvement (just look at Tyler1 in League, when Draven's strong he climbs to top 20 challenger and still spends more time typing than playing) but for most people it does. I grinded my way into unicum, and was 3marking tier 10s way before I realised that I was still a meron that didn't know shit about this game. Micro is something you learn much easier through time spent with something without explicitly learning. It's sort of a good thing that it is that way too. Micro really does get you 90% of the way at first, but eventually you have to focus on macro to improve past it or you'll stagnate, and as you do that you'll realise that it's actually the other way around. This is true for almost every game. Chess has the small short term plays you'll focus on at first to keep development going, but as you start focusing on the grand scheme it's suddenly a lot more balls to juggle in your head which is why most people really don't understand macro and either never begin to grasp it or simply give up on it.

A difference for HS is obviously that you don't have teammates so it eliminates that issue. I've played Yu-Gi-Oh a lot during high school online so I know your pain of top deck RNG, difference is though that this truly is luck and a lot of the subtler parts of the game is spent around building your deck around eliminating RNGs influence and expanding your options that can probably be viewed as the macro game and meta thinking, while playing out your current hand the best way possible is seen as micro.

That is something you can't do in WoT. If your aimdot within your reticle changed position from center to where the shell would go within your reticle then you would be able to limit RNG in a similar way though, like you can adjust for spread patterns in CS (haven't played enough CS to know if spread patterns are 100% fixed or if they vary during different conditions though so grains of salt here).

You won't get good aim through working on your aim, you get better aim after spending enough time with the game for muscle memory to take over which is why a lot of players are so incredibly picky with their settings. I'll play worse if my elbow rest isn't exactly where it's used to simply because my mouse swipes will be off and I'll have to compensate with a longer movement that'll ultimately make my reticle bigger than simply aiming from current aim dot position straight to target. But good aim along with decent tank control easily gets you unicum. No sense of macro required to mechanically outplay well enough for unicum numbers. Luckily WoT is a game where macro is a big focus in its nature, finding good spots (mostly openings) and using your environment well is basically where people stop though. If you really want to break through in performance (like X3N4, Poltto, Kewei and all the other insane players who were much earlier with it than I was) macro needs to develop further than that. Constantly asking yourself if you are at the best position possible to the information you have on hand as the game goes on is something not a lot of people do, and eventually you start thinking about what could happen and what should happen rather than what is currently happening. Focusing on the grander scheme of things. Being able to see that a flank could be about to fall because tanks somewhere else have been unspotted for long and probably rotated there is something some FCs do in organised games, but in random battles people just don't do this type of thing. Macro gameplay only takes place in your head, you just reap its benefits on a monitor. 

On 5/9/2019 at 11:04 AM, WhatTheSkara said:

So, I have a small but relevant (at least for me) question.

Let's suppose you're in a mid/top tier autoloading heavy like a Emil 2, fairly armoured and the gun is scary at close ranges, and no matter the map or mm nobody goes to fight for key positions (C1 on serene coast, middle on glacier, 0 line on steppes just to name a couple), you have top/mid tier mediums trying to brawl lower tier superheavies and systematically lose, leaving you and your team with little to nothing to work with.

What would you do?

 

Because that's what has happened to me in the past 3 days, all in said tank.

 

You need to learn how to give things up. The biggest mistake a lot of people is playing alone. Key positions obviously have their value but staying alive matters more. When things like these happen you have to think on your feet and come up with the best answer you can. There are really shitty games I've had where I couldn't figure out what to have done better. Arty pens and fires are a lot of those games for me, in theory I can play with more arty safety and plan out my trading better to avoid getting engine/fuel tank hits. I don't though, it becomes way too complicated and would get in the way of game quality. I've gotten a lot better at both dodging arty shells (tracking reload timers and moving unpredictably/going dark when I know they're reloaded) and minimising critical hits (sometimes it's better to give the HP up to not risk a track shot when rep kit is on CD and so on, basically resulting in poking further out and giving an LFP shot instead of a sprocket shot despite it being a bigger target, especially against autoloaders to guarantee the 1 for 1 instead of risking detrack-repkit-detrack situations) but most of the time playing 100% safe from everything just results in worse games than taking some risks will. Good gameplay walks a fine line in the limbo betwen playing to win and playing not to lose.

TCAmir777 was incredibly good at this, as his gameplay was focused a lot more around playing safely than most people. The less sugar coated way of putting it is that he was very good at redlining. His PC netted him 17FPS gameplay so I'm assuming gameplay at range just made it easier for him to play. He wasn't doing any Gandaran type of shit (only rendering 300m or PC couldn't run WoT) but he was rivaling X3N4 for best player on the server at the time with an entirely different playstyle that netted similar results in almost all stats. Assist numbers were lower but people gave 0 fucks about assist back then and T10 wasn't as overbuffed as it is now so there weren't 50+ people being able to 4,5k DPG+ tier 10s like there is now. It was from this guy I picked up using arty reload timers to time my trading windows. The point being is that you don't always have to be aggressive or even fight for these things at all. There is reactive gameplay that generates just as good results, and when your team is collapsing this type of gameplay is incredibly efficient. There are games where X3N4s gameplay would have won games Amir's would've lost, and the other way around. X3N4 played up close and micromanaged his way into winning important engagements while Amir played his own team just as much as the enemy into his results.

An Emil II won't work very well at range, both because autoloaders want opportunities to clip and because the gun doesn't handle well enough at long range. You obviously can't redline in this sort of tank like you can a 50B. I never played the Emil II, and I haven't played any of the swedish heavies since the gun rework so I don't have anything concrete to give you. But in broad strokes you need to re-evaluate the situation and not let it get in your way. Your team not even fighting for C1 on Serene Coast at all is still better than fighting it and decisively losing. I don't go there much anymore personally because it's difficult to see in advance how it'll play out since you don't get any information on how many tanks are going there before you peek that ridge, and then it's already too late to fall back if you think you'll lose it. The swedish heavies are very gimmicky tanks though, but instead of playing to the tanks strength you might want to consider playing the map. The thought process of strong turret, good gun depression and burst damage translating into going for strong map positioning involving ridges is a good idea, but you should try and recognise when it won't work to zone in on what your tank is good at but play towards what the best possible game will be. There are a lot of positions on close to every map where you can hulldown, and while they might not be traditionally important positions they will probably end up being the best ones available. If you were to be losing the 1-2 line on Steppes (from either sides) you have enough positions to hulldown to keep falling back systematically while remaining hulldown until you're on the 9-0 line. Start thinking about how you can use your tanks qualities in a safe way. Swedish heavies have a lot of stopping power, but stopping power only works if actually pushing you won't be feasible for the enemy. The best situation is probably when you can make them think you are pushable but really aren't. That's a mindgame though and probably wishing a bit, but sometimes it happens.

TL;DR: Ask yourself where you can safely be on the map while playing to your tanks abilities. Where you can be in relation to your team safely while still being able to contribute to the game. In the Emil I'd imagine it's any position where you can deal damage, use your turret but not get pushed. Next step would be including a way of falling back in case you misread the situation and can get pushed. One step further would be doing it in places where you have the ability to go dark and some vertical cover against arty and the ability to rotate unspotted. As you get better at a tank you can keep adding things like this as the previous ones become natural.

 

19 hours ago, mati_14 said:

-snip-

For learning to be fun it needs to in a field where you enjoy. You either enjoy things because you're naturally good at them or you find them interesting enough for the learning process to be worthwhile. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just the way I see it. 

There are psychological implications in everything, it is the study of the mind after all. If you managed to climb up the standings in one field the odds are you're able to do it too. Jordan's baseball career was a bust but you have League players role-swapping and remaining world class where the entire game plays out differently. Bale played left back in Spurs and being good at it before swapping over to an offensive position. While you're playing the same game you are doing it with everything else being different but the set of roles and the football on the field. A lot of the qualities overlap obviously, but the meta is entirely different. People are able to do it because they find it enjoyable enough, or enjoy being good at it enough to keep pushing. Most people never leave silver in League no matter how much they play, just like the average WoT player with 100k games is still average after subjectimg themselves for so much of the game. Other people are great at every game they play because improving is an important part of the experience to them. WoT and LoL are the only online games I've been bad at but still kept playing and improved. That is me by all means. Being good = fun. I think it's more that fun comes out being good than something being fun naturally makes you improve though.

Sort of related but is more about League/IRL:

 

 

 

With League I've been spending time expanding my champ pool now as I need to diversify. You can see that in the same way. I liked Shaco so I onetricked him right from the get-go. After hitting level 30 and watching a lot of streams/videos on the more subtle parts of LoL and Shaco mechanic interactions I climbed to Plat after 3 months of ranked. League is similar to WoT in a lot of ways when it comes to the gameplay. Mechanics and micro can easily take you all the way to D1/Master (which'd equal to superunicums in WoT, probably unicums above 3500wn8 in broad strokes) but if you wanna hit Challenger then macro matters. I've been learning Jax top recently. With Jax I've been having about a 50%WR in Plat with some practice tool use and normals to get the hang of him at the start by learning trade patterns. That is literally all I did on a new champ to keep stay in place when I should drop hard. Stacking up my passive, always having push so I have minion advantage and waiting for them to either miss an ability or use it on the wave is all I'm doing right now because juggling anything else along with CSing is too hard, but that alone takes you places further than most people actually reach no matter how much time they spend playing. It's just micro, takes maybe a month of using your free time on pro-active learning but most people are simply unwilling to do that despite it being so easy and a lot of people being so eager to improve despite not being able to. I'm not one of those people and that's true for a lot of people on the forum too, some are fine with playing casually and there's nothing wrong in it but you do have the people desperately trying to improve at something they enjoy but somehow can't figure out how despite all the information being available to them. Only at the end of the spectrum does it actually get tricky IMO. End of the line is where information is scarce and you need to come up with answers on your own. There's videos of Tryndameres winning games doing 0 damage to champions in silver. People playing LoL should realise how ridiculous this is. No trading, no kills to snowball or participating in teamfights whatsoever. For those who don't it is basically equal to loading up a WoT battle without ammo and still being able to achieve positive winrates. It really is doable as anyone playing a light has had a game of being useful without dealing damage should know, obviously not every game but macro plays a big enough part to make this possible while removing all mechanical interactions that is a fundamental part of the game.

I think that for a macro type of thinking in games, or forward-thinking ideas in the real world it requires this type of thinking. A lot of people struggle with basics

 

6 hours ago, _Steve said:

Update, ever since I read this post I stopped griefing my stats for the most part and I'm slowly getting back to where I used to be and improving past that so correlation = causation obviously

I reached close to the top of the EU/Asia ladders and I still got tilted every other hour I played during that time, I think some people with some games are just capable of performing at a high level regardless of tilt/emotional reaction

As did I but in WoT of course. Pulled some of my better achievements off during mega-tilt and keyboard warrioring my team. Tilting doesn't have to get in the way of improvement (just look at Tyler1 in League, when Draven's strong he climbs to top 20 challenger and still spends more time typing than playing) but for most people it does. I grinded my way into unicum, and was 3marking tier 10s way before I realised that I was still a meron that didn't know shit about this game. Micro is something you learn much easier through time spent with something without explicitly learning. It's sort of a good thing that it is that way too. Micro really does get you 90% of the way at first, but eventually you have to focus on macro to improve past it or you'll stagnate, and as you do that you'll realise that it's actually the other way around. This is true for almost every game. Chess has the small short term plays you'll focus on at first to keep development going, but as you start focusing on the grand scheme it's suddenly a lot more balls to juggle in your head which is why most people really don't understand macro and either never begin to grasp it or simply give up on it.

A difference for HS is obviously that you don't have teammates so it eliminates that issue. I've played Yu-Gi-Oh a lot during high school online so I know your pain of top deck RNG, difference is though that this truly is luck and a lot of the subtler parts of the game is spent around building your deck around eliminating RNGs influence and expanding your options that can probably be viewed as the macro game and meta thinking, while playing out your current hand the best way possible is seen as micro.

That is something you can't do in WoT. If your aimdot within your reticle changed position from center to where the shell would go within your reticle then you would be able to limit RNG in a similar way though, like you can adjust for spread patterns in CS (haven't played enough CS to know if spread patterns are 100% fixed or if they vary during different conditions though so grains of salt here).

You won't get good aim through working on your aim, you get better aim after spending enough time with the game for muscle memory to take over which is why a lot of players are so incredibly picky with their settings. I'll play worse if my elbow rest isn't exactly where it's used to simply because my mouse swipes will be off and I'll have to compensate with a longer movement that'll ultimately make my reticle bigger than simply aiming from current aim dot position straight to target. But good aim along with decent tank control easily gets you unicum. No sense of macro required to mechanically outplay well enough for unicum numbers. Luckily WoT is a game where macro is a big focus in its nature, finding good spots (mostly openings) and using your environment well is basically where people stop though. If you really want to break through in performance (like X3N4, Poltto, Kewei and all the other insane players who were much earlier with it than I was) macro needs to develop further than that. Constantly asking yourself if you are at the best position possible to the information you have on hand as the game goes on is something not a lot of people do, and eventually you start thinking about what could happen and what should happen rather than what is currently happening. Focusing on the grander scheme of things. Being able to see that a flank could be about to fall because tanks somewhere else have been unspotted for long and probably rotated there is something some FCs do in organised games, but in random battles people just don't do this type of thing. Macro gameplay only takes place in your head, you just reap its benefits on a monitor. 

EDIT: MODS PLEASE FIX THIS POST I CAN'T EDIT ANYTHING AND SPOILERS BROKE AGAIN

 

 

Edited by Kolni
mods pls help the post broke and i can't edit it to fix the spoilers, unable to change anything quoted to the bottom two or even see the spoiler tags anymore

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There's a lot of really good advice in this thread here which would personally benefit me. In terms of me improving, it pretty much is just decision-making skills in the mid-late game that would really bring my personal performance up a notch consistently instead of every now and again.

 

I've pretty much already stopped caring about winning/losing, how my team perform and how the enemy team perform. If my team list ends up with 7 0-damage players, so what? There really isn't much I can do. One of the things that helped a lot with that was when I stopped using XVM years ago mainly because I was too lazy to keep updating it.

Unfortunately that same reason is why I probably won't take the step up in gameplay anytime soon. My laziness means I can't be arsed to look over other streamers and other players. In terms of time-stamping, It is somewhat taken into account in my decision making anyway. It could be something i would improve but imho a bigger improvement for me would be in step 3. 

If anything, all I play for in the game is enjoyment, whether that is platooned or solo.
It just so happens that part of the enjoyment is my improvement in play, driven more by disappointment of losing winnable games or my own play resulting in an early death.

That being said, I haven't logged in for months. 

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Thanks for the article. It really helped me find some more enjoyment in the game. I used to play for wins and always try to make the winning moves. Since I kinda suck, that hardly ever worked. Now I just play as you say "a PVE game focussed on damage". And I don't even look at wins/losses anymore. Makes it all a lot more fun.

I am a person that wants to improve. But often times I am just soo tired (from work/family) and I just want to get an hour in with Tier 8s with boosters on to make some money. Those games are usually horrible because I can't focus/think. But my playtime is very limited and I just want to get some money or complete a certain weekend-mission. Any tips on how not to get frustrated when playing super tired? :)

I think the answer is "don't play". And you would be right. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 9:48 AM, Kolni said:

EDIT: MODS PLEASE FIX THIS POST I CAN'T EDIT ANYTHING AND SPOILERS BROKE AGAIN

 

you're on your own here Idk how to fix whatever the hell you've managed to do lol

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On 5/8/2019 at 2:25 PM, Kolni said:

Adapt to your teammates and recognise what they are doing, capitalise on the good and adapt to the bad. If you can't push without them, and they aren't reacting then you can't push. Don't push. It's important not to overreach when the fighting settles and nothing is happening. The game state doesn't change if nothing happens, someone's going to get bored and do something eventually. Once they do the situation changes and you re-evaluate the situation with its new conditions. The exception here is when the game will end without anything happening, but then you have nothing to lose anyway so it's a sound idea even if it doesn't pan out.

I am going to tattoo this on my wrist, so I can look down anytime and reread it.

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On 5/14/2019 at 8:33 AM, PieterJ said:

Thanks for the article. It really helped me find some more enjoyment in the game. I used to play for wins and always try to make the winning moves. Since I kinda suck, that hardly ever worked. Now I just play as you say "a PVE game focussed on damage". And I don't even look at wins/losses anymore. Makes it all a lot more fun.

I am a person that wants to improve. But often times I am just soo tired (from work/family) and I just want to get an hour in with Tier 8s with boosters on to make some money. Those games are usually horrible because I can't focus/think. But my playtime is very limited and I just want to get some money or complete a certain weekend-mission. Any tips on how not to get frustrated when playing super tired? :)

I think the answer is "don't play". And you would be right. 

Hi, I am in similar position as you are. Family and work killing my game time and honestly, only think worked for me is getting some rest. When I play rested I enjoy game more, my decitions are better, reaction time is better and as that my results are better.

When I am tired I burn out quickly and I am not even in mood for playing and game become a chore. Get good rest, consider this as a investment for having more fun and become more productive in game. ;-)

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On 5/10/2019 at 4:48 PM, Kolni said:
  Reveal hidden contents

TL;DR: Ask yourself where you can safely be on the map while playing to your tanks abilities. Where you can be in relation to your team safely while still being able to contribute to the game. In the Emil I'd imagine it's any position where you can deal damage, use your turret but not get pushed. Next step would be including a way of falling back in case you misread the situation and can get pushed. One step further would be doing it in places where you have the ability to go dark and some vertical cover against arty and the ability to rotate unspotted. As you get better at a tank you can keep adding things like this as the previous ones become natural.

For learning to be fun it needs to in a field where you enjoy. You either enjoy things because you're naturally good at them or you find them interesting enough for the learning process to be worthwhile. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just the way I see it. 

There are psychological implications in everything, it is the study of the mind after all. If you managed to climb up the standings in one field the odds are you're able to do it too. Jordan's baseball career was a bust but you have League players role-swapping and remaining world class where the entire game plays out differently. Bale played left back in Spurs and being good at it before swapping over to an offensive position. While you're playing the same game you are doing it with everything else being different but the set of roles and the football on the field. A lot of the qualities overlap obviously, but the meta is entirely different. People are able to do it because they find it enjoyable enough, or enjoy being good at it enough to keep pushing. Most people never leave silver in League no matter how much they play, just like the average WoT player with 100k games is still average after subjectimg themselves for so much of the game. Other people are great at every game they play because improving is an important part of the experience to them. WoT and LoL are the only online games I've been bad at but still kept playing and improved. That is me by all means. Being good = fun. I think it's more that fun comes out being good than something being fun naturally makes you improve though.

Sort of related but is more about League/IRL:

  Reveal hidden contents

TL;DR: Ask yourself where you can safely be on the map while playing to your tanks abilities. Where you can be in relation to your team safely while still being able to contribute to the game. In the Emil I'd imagine it's any position where you can deal damage, use your turret but not get pushed. Next step would be including a way of falling back in case you misread the situation and can get pushed. One step further would be doing it in places where you have the ability to go dark and some vertical cover against arty and the ability to rotate unspotted. As you get better at a tank you can keep adding things like this as the previous ones become natural.

 

For learning to be fun it needs to in a field where you enjoy. You either enjoy things because you're naturally good at them or you find them interesting enough for the learning process to be worthwhile. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just the way I see it. 

There are psychological implications in everything, it is the study of the mind after all. If you managed to climb up the standings in one field the odds are you're able to do it too. Jordan's baseball career was a bust but you have League players role-swapping and remaining world class where the entire game plays out differently. Bale played left back in Spurs and being good at it before swapping over to an offensive position. While you're playing the same game you are doing it with everything else being different but the set of roles and the football on the field. A lot of the qualities overlap obviously, but the meta is entirely different. People are able to do it because they find it enjoyable enough, or enjoy being good at it enough to keep pushing. Most people never leave silver in League no matter how much they play, just like the average WoT player with 100k games is still average after subjectimg themselves for so much of the game. Other people are great at every game they play because improving is an important part of the experience to them. WoT and LoL are the only online games I've been bad at but still kept playing and improved. That is me by all means. Being good = fun. I think it's more that fun comes out being good than something being fun naturally makes you improve though.

Sort of related but is more about League/IRL:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

As did I but in WoT of course. Pulled some of my better achievements off during mega-tilt and keyboard warrioring my team. Tilting doesn't have to get in the way of improvement (just look at Tyler1 in League, when Draven's strong he climbs to top 20 challenger and still spends more time typing than playing) but for most people it does. I grinded my way into unicum, and was 3marking tier 10s way before I realised that I was still a meron that didn't know shit about this game. Micro is something you learn much easier through time spent with something without explicitly learning. It's sort of a good thing that it is that way too. Micro really does get you 90% of the way at first, but eventually you have to focus on macro to improve past it or you'll stagnate, and as you do that you'll realise that it's actually the other way around. This is true for almost every game. Chess has the small short term plays you'll focus on at first to keep development going, but as you start focusing on the grand scheme it's suddenly a lot more balls to juggle in your head which is why most people really don't understand macro and either never begin to grasp it or simply give up on it.

A difference for HS is obviously that you don't have teammates so it eliminates that issue. I've played Yu-Gi-Oh a lot during high school online so I know your pain of top deck RNG, difference is though that this truly is luck and a lot of the subtler parts of the game is spent around building your deck around eliminating RNGs influence and expanding your options that can probably be viewed as the macro game and meta thinking, while playing out your current hand the best way possible is seen as micro.

That is something you can't do in WoT. If your aimdot within your reticle changed position from center to where the shell would go within your reticle then you would be able to limit RNG in a similar way though, like you can adjust for spread patterns in CS (haven't played enough CS to know if spread patterns are 100% fixed or if they vary during different conditions though so grains of salt here).

You won't get good aim through working on your aim, you get better aim after spending enough time with the game for muscle memory to take over which is why a lot of players are so incredibly picky with their settings. I'll play worse if my elbow rest isn't exactly where it's used to simply because my mouse swipes will be off and I'll have to compensate with a longer movement that'll ultimately make my reticle bigger than simply aiming from current aim dot position straight to target. But good aim along with decent tank control easily gets you unicum. No sense of macro required to mechanically outplay well enough for unicum numbers. Luckily WoT is a game where macro is a big focus in its nature, finding good spots (mostly openings) and using your environment well is basically where people stop though. If you really want to break through in performance (like X3N4, Poltto, Kewei and all the other insane players who were much earlier with it than I was) macro needs to develop further than that. Constantly asking yourself if you are at the best position possible to the information you have on hand as the game goes on is something not a lot of people do, and eventually you start thinking about what could happen and what should happen rather than what is currently happening. Focusing on the grander scheme of things. Being able to see that a flank could be about to fall because tanks somewhere else have been unspotted for long and probably rotated there is something some FCs do in organised games, but in random battles people just don't do this type of thing. Macro gameplay only takes place in your head, you just reap its benefits on a monitor. 

EDIT: MODS PLEASE FIX THIS POST I CAN'T EDIT ANYTHING AND SPOILERS BROKE AGAIN

 

 

why dont you copy/paste what you need into notepad...delete the original post and start again?

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B9GD9xF.jpg?1https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bzoezjugvm5kmyy/AADKJZUGAC-ULllw8fYpBFfOa?dl=0 <-- replay pack 

i posted this as status and since i play with replays off in general i normally don't save replays but i think it'll actually do more use here, this is one of the sessions were i felt that i was nearing the peak of how good the game can be in several of the games so there's honestly a lot to learn from them, but still very many mistakes that could be worked on etc

might be willing to go over them with analysis from my PoV if needed

will have my replays on again for a while and share some useful ones here if i get around to playing a bit more

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2 hours ago, CandyVanMan said:

Please post some replays, would be nice to see how you deal with the current meta.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yt4uvmde5uqt5gr/AACIgwLSx_kpVAx3PSiZpQiga?dl=0 replay links for the ppl who want to use those instead, nothing's muted but a lot of people don't like my music choices :doge:  also the odd grille/pz7/tvp game in there while bc dead

ZH9ddwt.png

session stats but some games are missing, they're probably around average tho (from bottom to top in order)

this was a bit more focus on spotting in general, honestly the bc is just so incredibly bad at dealing damage reliably that i actually think the best way to play it is like a light with an mt hp pool

much to my frustration there were so many fv183s out today after the black market sale and i haven't played in pretty long so i decided to just power through it anyway despite getting penned by just a ridiculous amount of them

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I can see what you mean about spotting - a few games (Highway, for example), you actively spotted at (mostly) the expense of damage. But there were also games where the BC's limitations as a damage dealer were on full display. That game on Cliff you 100% should have won, but those shots at the S. Conq. and WT Pz 4 just went . . . I don't even know where. I think that in a Prog or 50/51 (to name two other autoloaders) that game is probably a win.

What I like most about watching this is when it goes wrong, I can still see what you were going for. It's hard for regular players to watch guys like you and Decha and it goes right everytime, as it feels like 'of course that was the right move, it would be stupid not to do that'. But the right move and the right decisions still go wrong sometimes, due to playing against 15 varied players everytime. A good example is when you got FV'd on Murovanka - that was a nice spotting position and I could see you were going for early crossing damage, you were just unlucky that the FV was pre-aimed at that bush. Weirdly, I think I learn more from you when you die quickly or get into trouble than when everything goes smoothly.

Thanks again for uploading. It might be worth copying my comments from the status into here? Particularly the 2nd one - I think it'll give people some really useful insight into your methods.

 

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On 5/10/2019 at 9:23 PM, TheChang said:

When I platoon with CrabEatOff, we focus on winning above all else, unless we stated beforehand that we had other goals such as missions or marks for that session. We work together and play tanks that synergize well to maximize our chances of winning. Yes, there are a lot of wins that just happen, and there are a lot of "unwinnables", but the games in-between (the carries) are where I get the most enjoyment from WoT. The important thing, like others have said, is to ignore the things you can't control and focus on what you can learn and where you can improve. If I lose a game, I look to see if there is anything I could've done differently, and mark it down mentally. If we lost and I have done literally everything I could to win, I mentally consider it a win because I know I played my part perfectly. Be honest with yourself with your personal evaluation and avoid blaming others, you can change yourself, you're not going to be changing pubbies. 

My only issue with the damage farm mentality, is a lot of new or learning players see "damage/WN8 > wins" and never learn things like map control, how certain maps work (what controls what) or how maps progress. In -G- we had this issue a few weeks ago with one of our callers getting after some fairly recently recruited players who were making poor positional and threat focus choices in CW related to winning. When their defense is how much damage they did, or how much WN8 they have, you know there's an issue.

I really enjoy watching Kolni or others of his caliber play, and I learn a lot from it. There are loads of different playstyles, and I think it's good to use pieces of others' to build what you enjoy. I just worry about the "green to freshly purple" range of players who are joining during the damage farming era of WoT and never learn a lot of basic winning principles. 

Players of Kolni's caliber know how to win, but also get a large amount of wins from sheer damage farming. Whether your focus is winning or damage, the principles are the same. Do your best, learn from your mistakes, and only worry about what you can control.

This seems to be a quality that has become more rare with time, these days most people I have come across are more interested in wn8 than winrate. I suspect it stems from newer players being exposed to twitch streamers who solo queue for the wn8/marks farm, as well as clans having wn8 reqs to join them.

Before I quit playing in 2014 I had several people on my friendslist that I knew would do what it takes to win, one of them being Adroxis whom I used to platoon with a lot. We have pretty much identical mindsets when it comes to doing what it takes to win, at minimum we expected to go for 80% winrate with the goal being closer to 90%. We did this over long stretches of time, and I know for a fact other players were able to do this as well, several of them posters on this forum.

I have looked around at winrates on wotlabs and in game hall of fame thing after returning from my 5 year hiatus, I'm struggling to find a whole lot of people maintaining 70%+. I see some people reaching up to 79% here and there, but as a whole it seems extremely rare.

I'm left wondering wether this is due to an increase in wn8 mentality, a decrease in the winning mentality, if people are just soloing a lot more than platooning, if this is due to the map reworks with increased corridor meta, if it's due to the increase in powercreep with so many tanks having much higher alpha now, if it's due to armorcreep and tanks in general being a lot more difficult to kill, or maybe it's all of the above combined.

Whatever the reason, seeing how different the game is now has been an experience for sure. I feel like I'm almost learning to play a new game with all the differences in map, tank and playstyle meta, it's been a a real challenge keeping calm while trying to learn from all my mistakes relating to all the changes.

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2 hours ago, LamaLeif said:

I'm left wondering wether this is due to an increase in wn8 mentality, a decrease in the winning mentality, if people are just soloing a lot more than platooning, if this is due to the map reworks with increased corridor meta, if it's due to the increase in powercreep with so many tanks having much higher alpha now, if it's due to armorcreep and tanks in general being a lot more difficult to kill, or maybe it's all of the above combined.

Whatever the reason, seeing how different the game is now has been an experience for sure. I feel like I'm almost learning to play a new game with all the differences in map, tank and playstyle meta, it's been a a real challenge keeping calm while trying to learn from all my mistakes relating to all the changes.

I started playing seriously in 2014 (around the time you quit) until around 2017, before being on and off for 2 years and only now picking it back up again. I can echo that probably as recently as 2016 there were still a lot of guys who could consistently push high w/r in solo (and obviously higher in platoons). I was never one of them, but I saw it in others - hell, when I platooned (much less than 5% of my games overall I believe, although not sure where that can be checked) I could hit 75% w/r for sessions.

Those days are dead. Almost completely. Unless you are absolute superuni, 5k dmg sessions good, I think the current meta makes those insane w/r impossible - even as part of a 3 man platoon. I guess it is some combination of those factors you set out, but I don't think it is a WN8/Marks/not caring about winning mentality - I think it is the wider game, power creep, armour creep, flavour of the months tanks, arty rebalance (more random due to bigger splash, less skill required in avoiding getting hit), corridor meta, old arty players migrating to TDs adding up to make what would be 'winning moves' 5 years ago (pushes, sacrifices, flanking) suicidal hail marys now. I feel like it used to be a lot easier to lead pubbies by example - if you lead, they would follow - than it is now. A lot of that is a new generation of pubbies who never learned the game as it was, and only know it as it is now (that's not even talking about how much easier it seems to be for pubbies to get to tier 10 quickly, and how there is such a variance in tier 10 tanks in terms of quality).

Maybe NA is different due to lower server pop, but from what i've seen on EU (both personally and through streamers) the above is accurate. Just look at Decha, one of the best players on the EU server (particularly when WGL was a thing). He is my favourite streamer primarily because he is so aggressive (like @X3N4 used to be), but in his latest streams (admittedly, where he gives less of a shit than a few years ago) he gets caught out so often playing that way because teams are so passive and campy - it's not that it doesn't work, it's that it definitely isn't the optimal way to play nowadays. I don't know, maybe there's a streamer out there who has adapted to the meta and only plays heavily armoured heavies or TDs and can manage those w/r by steering into it, but I haven't seen them if so (and they would be boring as fuck to watch).

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1 hour ago, Snoregasm2 said:

old arty players migrating to TDs adding up to make what would be 'winning moves' 5 years ago (pushes, sacrifices, flanking) suicidal hail marys now. I feel like it used to be a lot easier to lead pubbies by example - if you lead, they would follow - than it is now. A lot of that is a new generation of pubbies who never learned the game as it was, and only know it as it is now

This really encapsulates what I have been seeing on NA.  It is amazing how passive things are now. 

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I’ve decided to go on hiatus again, not liking my gameplay enough/gameplay in general. Feels like I’ve regressed a little just in a few weeks again, will still be here and answer things but I’m not interested in playing when I don’t meet my standards. Not really sure if it’s got to do with me or something else, also don’t want to bother finding out.

 

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That's a shame you stopped playing again, although understandable.I think I speak for most others in that when players of your calibre quit the game (even temporarily), it only weakens the higher tier gameplay. 

I hope you can continue to provide feedback in this thread and elsewhere - it is all great content, and very helpful.

On that note ...

On 5/26/2019 at 3:28 PM, Kolni said:

B9GD9xF.jpg?1https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bzoezjugvm5kmyy/AADKJZUGAC-ULllw8fYpBFfOa?dl=0 <-- replay pack 

i posted this as status and since i play with replays off in general i normally don't save replays but i think it'll actually do more use here, this is one of the sessions were i felt that i was nearing the peak of how good the game can be in several of the games so there's honestly a lot to learn from them, but still very many mistakes that could be worked on etc

might be willing to go over them with analysis from my PoV if needed

will have my replays on again for a while and share some useful ones here if i get around to playing a bit more

I thought on Mines the spotting was a happy side effect - re-watching it, I can see you peaked more than you needed to, so yeah, good spotting work. 

On that note, I saw your view range was slightly less than max - i assume you use vents rather than optics as a result? All my high level meds run optics instead - it is mainly because i hate relying on teammates for spotting and often have to do it myself (or at least I feel that way - maybe I should change). Is that something you do for all tier 10 meds, or just the Russian meds/140?

Another thing I noticed (i've watched the rest of the games now, including Studz) was how decisively you push when you decide that's what you want to do. I think a lot of players like me (nowhere near your level, but fairly good at micro/other stuff you mentioned in your topic) are timid when pushing, because we remember times when it went wrong/we died due to lack of teammate support. Essentially, we're letting emotion/past tilt get in the way of the correct play at the time. I think (correct me if i'm wrong) you push so well because you actually have such a macro understanding/awareness that even though it may look like a risk, it actually isn't. Your push on Highway is a case in point - you went at the Jagd E 100 and Badger, because you knew there were no base campers and that they couldn't counter push. It's really helpful watching what you're saying in your topic in real time.

Your worst game was probably Minsk. I personally block it as it seems so random pushing the 1/2 line (do you always do this in meds?) - you have no real idea as to what's there until you're there (a little like the hill on Serene Coast) - which maps do you block, out of interest?

I liked to watch your opening moves in each of the games. On Sieg, for example, I often go to E8 at the start from North spawn, but it is very hit and miss. I thought your opener was much better for a Russian med. How much are your opening moves dictated by arty? Studz for example was a very safe opener (yeah, you got a little lucky, but tbh it is hard for them to push if you have back campers), given it was both arty safe and not going into the trench to potentially get yolo'd. 

I thought on Mines the spotting was a happy side effect - re-watching it, I can see you peaked more than you needed to, so yeah, good spotting work. 

On that note, I saw your view range was slightly less than max - i assume you use vents rather than optics as a result? All my high level meds run optics instead - it is mainly because i hate relying on teammates for spotting and often have to do it myself (or at least I feel that way - maybe I should change). Is that something you do for all tier 10 meds, or just the Russian meds/140?

Another thing I noticed (i've watched the rest of the games now, including Studz) was how decisively you push when you decide that's what you want to do. I think a lot of players like me (nowhere near your level, but fairly good at micro/other stuff you mentioned in your topic) are timid when pushing, because we remember times when it went wrong/we died due to lack of teammate support. Essentially, we're letting emotion/past tilt get in the way of the correct play at the time. I think (correct me if i'm wrong) you push so well because you actually have such a macro understanding/awareness that even though it may look like a risk, it actually isn't. Your push on Highway is a case in point - you went at the Jagd E 100 and Badger, because you knew there were no base campers and that they couldn't counter push. It's really helpful watching what you're saying in your topic in real time.

Your worst game was probably Minsk. I personally block it as it seems so random pushing the 1/2 line (do you always do this in meds?) - you have no real idea as to what's there until you're there (a little like the hill on Serene Coast) - which maps do you block, out of interest?

I liked to watch your opening moves in each of the games. On Sieg, for example, I often go to E8 at the start from North spawn, but it is very hit and miss. I thought your opener was much better for a Russian med. How much are your opening moves dictated by arty? Studz for example was a very safe opener (yeah, you got a little lucky, but tbh it is hard for them to push if you have back campers), given it was both arty safe and not going into the trench to potentially get yolo'd. 

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263 replays as requested by @Haswell and @SIRJ4MES.

BGMeW52.png

Murovanka game is 2580 damage and 453 spotting (wouldn't load in analyser). 4121 average DPG. It was a very good session. Played first 5 straight and then I took some breaks to keep focused, Rift Rivals is on so honestly I was kinda distant. My meds kicked in too so I do some pretty stupid things because I just lose my focus and start thinking about whatever lol

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0glh8y5bk3vqsdd/AAAnNnsiaEyj5D934D190S0ba?dl=0 - replays

Karelia was kinda weird, I thought it was a cool way to break the game open though and I'm glad I tried it.

Redshire 430 has the most insane RNG I've seen since I started playing the game

 

The 263 sucks now, gun is just too derpy and its too susceptible to arty. This was just a decent session with some luck.

 

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12 hours ago, Haswell said:

You know, when I requested the 263, I was hoping you'd ragequit instead of doing this. :doge:

M103 next?

M103 isn't even bad :doge:  Old HD E5 sprocket meme still there and poking 45 degrees (between frontal and sideways) trolls the shit out of literally everything as long as you don't expose the cupola on your turret. Gun is also absolutely insane

3marked one in 41 games, but now that tier 9 MM isn't as good and me being a little more rusty means I won't do that well again, I won't do the M103 again though since I have absolutely zero interest in playing it again after doing so well last time

Also have like 7 tanks to do right now so M103 won't be one of them

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