Update 1.5.1 Common Test: It's ya boi Kharkov back at it again with another HD rework.

[LordEdwardthefith 4]

Wargaming annoucement vid: 

 

Lets be real here, not even Thanos can balance thi8s mess,  but at least the Japanese and light German med lines might be better....... haven't played test client yet.


Besides who cares: KHARKOV IS BACK. Don't really remember the thoughts on the old map, but I think it's still better then Polish, empire map and Ghost Town.
 

[mati_14 129]

Old Kharkov was garbage for tanks without armor and somehow better than maps like Studzianki, Erlenberg, Pilsen or Minsk. New version looks promising but... it's WG

[hazzgar 730]

Studzianki is workable imho. Erlenberg and Minsk through. Also high tier ensk. Yeah those are cancer.

[LordEdwardthefith 4]

24 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

Studzianki is workable imho. Erlenberg and Minsk through. Also high tier ensk. Yeah those are cancer.

High tier Ensk clan wars is aids.

[Deus__Ex__Machina 989]

STB-1

Gun Changes are ass. 

the better aimtime helps you not miss as many close range shots, but it still derps the fuck out at range

the lower alpha is shit and often lets people simply out-trade you.The siege mode dosent work on this tank, it sucks not having the -10 gun depression all the time and the -5-6 on the sides is limiting. and overall the UDES/M48 is a better option at this point if your looking for a ridge line medium.

the engine buffs are decent and let you maintain 50 across most terrain alot of the time

The turret changes are very good and quite noticeable, your able to bounce a fair amount of shots especially compared to before. but its worth noting that its not immune by any means and can still be 22'd most of the time.

Leopard 1 

Gun changes are nice actually.

The 278 APCR is amazing and having 323 APCR as gold is much more fitting for its "sniper" role

the higher alpha IMO is nice as well as the leo 1 often has to minimize exposure so getting more dmg per shot on avg during those opportunistic moments is an improvement for me. 

the little changes to dispersion accuracy and aim-time ofc are welcome too.

mobility changes are hardly noticeable

Kharkov

Surprise Surprise: its fucking garbage.

The entirety of the 1-5 is a TD camp fest that brutally punishes any kind of push (its also completely open to arty) 

the 6 line where the Trench is located isnt deep enough to be realistically used by anything that isnt a low profile Russian hover med, and will let TD's pop shots into your turret/cupolas otherwise. (its also open to arty)

the 7-8 lines where most HT's will be was completely ruined compared to before. They removed alot of the smaller buildings that provided protection and allowed you to move up in the E/F-7 areas, they also put holes/windows in alot of the buildings in that spot along with larger rubble piles. overall this means the city has tunred from a close range brawl to a 100+ meter Hulldown pixel sniper fest.

In addition the removal of so many buildings have allowed both TDs from the Fields and arty to loop in opportunistic shots.

the  9-line is similar to before so mostly useless, and the 0-line was cut in half and had more rubble piles added for more hulldown pixel cupola sniping fun.

[Tupinambis 173]

So the 30b changes are canned I take it?

[Kymrel 185]

Haven't been on the test server, but just from the description of the new Kharkov the field seems iffy as fuck with the standard Wargaming Camping Nest (patent pending) on either side so that bushwankers have somewhere to wank. The pandering to camping in this game is getting stupid. But hey, at least we have the camping prevention units...

[DirtyACE7 514]

Kharkov is just another massive pile of garbage. The old one was bad, this is even worse. Massive area of the map essentially unplayable due to nice TD nests on both ends for the 80% of the player base that don't like to stray too far from the base and just sit in a bush, then hide behind a building if and when spotted. Rinse and repeat. Wonderful "dynamic" gameplay, as always. What maps should be all about.

[Assassin7 4,353]

STB is -6 over the sides. Its only -13 over the front.

Tank is ruined, not even anything else they changed matters. That alone fucks it.

 

Its exactly what I feared would happen and why I didnt want them to ad that suspension. Fuck WG. Just leave it the same as it it with -10 everywhere but -13 over the front with the suspension ffs 

[hall0 1,095]

Yeah played the STB hated it even more than I do it now. It just feels very wierd to play. 

Leopard is nice though. Don't think it will become meta, but it felt nice. Having close to 500dmg rolls feels rewarding. 

[Assassin7 4,353]

I actually played it a bit now. 

its.... eh. 

the turret buff is really nice. so is the RoF buff, the suspension is hit and miss, its good and gives you not only more depression but more effective depression because of the hull angle, but it takes a split second to transition from normal depression to suspension which mucks you up if you're trying to take snap shots, though otherwise its pretty seamless.

still don't like the -6 over the sides, though in the game I played it didn't hurt me as much as I was expected.

as for the gun handling and stuff. I can't really test it on the test server, 350 ping makes any gun feel like it has trash gun handling regardless so yeah, but from what I could feel it didn't really feel any different to what my tank is on live.

[LordEdwardthefith 4]

22 hours ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

STB-1

Gun Changes are ass. 

the better aimtime helps you not miss as many close range shots, but it still derps the fuck out at range

the lower alpha is shit and often lets people simply out-trade you.The siege mode dosent work on this tank, it sucks not having the -10 gun depression all the time and the -5-6 on the sides is limiting. and overall the UDES/M48 is a better option at this point if your looking for a ridge line medium.

the engine buffs are decent and let you maintain 50 across most terrain alot of the time

The turret changes are very good and quite noticeable, your able to bounce a fair amount of shots especially compared to before. but its worth noting that its not immune by any means and can still be 22'd most of the time.

Leopard 1 

Gun changes are nice actually.

The 278 APCR is amazing and having 323 APCR as gold is much more fitting for its "sniper" role

the higher alpha IMO is nice as well as the leo 1 often has to minimize exposure so getting more dmg per shot on avg during those opportunistic moments is an improvement for me. 

the little changes to dispersion accuracy and aim-time ofc are welcome too.

mobility changes are hardly noticeable

Kharkov

Surprise Surprise: its fucking garbage.

The entirety of the 1-5 is a TD camp fest that brutally punishes any kind of push (its also completely open to arty) 

the 6 line where the Trench is located isnt deep enough to be realistically used by anything that isnt a low profile Russian hover med, and will let TD's pop shots into your turret/cupolas otherwise. (its also open to arty)

 the 7-8 lines where most HT's will be was completely ruined compared to before. They removed alot of the smaller buildings that provided protection and allowed you to move up in the E/F-7 areas, they also put holes/windows in alot of the buildings in that spot along with larger rubble piles. overall this means the city has tunred from a close range brawl to a 100+ meter Hulldown pixel sniper fest.

 In addition the removal of so many buildings have allowed both TDs from the Fields and arty to loop in opportunistic shots.

the  9-line is similar to before so mostly useless, and the 0-line was cut in half and had more rubble piles added for more hulldown pixel cupola sniping fun.

#NotMyKharkov

[kolni 69,670,872]

didnt like stb

way too much to keep track of to utilise the tank properly, it's a mess to play well.. much like strv gameplay it takes so long to get used to that it's just not worth the investment for me.. it probably has its moments but im just not gonna put it in the effort

 

on the leo side of things though i already liked it a lot in this meta (wierd i know) and it was massively overperforming for me, might just replace 50m and 50b for favourite tanks in the game if it makes live.. leo1 already kinda took the e50m since e50m isn't considered armoured anymore, and having a gun accurate enough to reliably not even be able to miss is something i really value

calling leo 5k dpgable if it hits live

[Enroh 293]

@Kolni what do you think of the Leo PTA changes?

[Assassin7 4,353]

5 hours ago, Kolni said:

way too much to keep track of to utilise the tank properly, it's a mess to play well.. much like strv gameplay it takes so long to get used to that it's just not worth the investment for me..

that was what I was thinking as well, theres now too much going on with it to keep track of. 

 

WG just like... add the suspension, leave it at -10 all around but give it the -13 from the suspension, and buff its turret armour. I dont think it even needs all the gun changes. 

heck just buff the turret armour and thats it tbh. 

[lavawing 498]

Apparently the STB-1 turret change isnt a straight buff as parts of the mantlet become weaker and effectively autopen ~150 EA

[Assassin7 4,353]

2 hours ago, lavawing said:

Apparently the STB-1 turret change isnt a straight buff as parts of the mantlet become weaker and effectively autopen ~150 EA

the whole thing was basically auto pen anyway, so that doesn't really change things

[hazzgar 730]

Kharkhov is giving me Paris and Pilsen vibes. Yaaay we created some open space next to city but it's essentially a no mans land. 

[mati_14 129]

On 5/16/2019 at 8:54 PM, DirtyACE7 said:

Kharkov is just another massive pile of garbage. The old one was bad, this is even worse. Massive area of the map essentially unplayable due to nice TD nests on both ends for the 80% of the player base that don't like to stray too far from the base and just sit in a bush, then hide behind a building if and when spotted. Rinse and repeat. Wonderful "dynamic" gameplay, as always. What maps should be all about.

This has been the trend for every single fucking 1.0 map, I don't fucking get it, why WG designs maps around TDs.

[Madner Kami 405]

Nonono, you understand it wrong. Those wide open areas are intended to be used by light tanks and scout cars.

[kolni 69,670,872]

there is a giant design issue within the core game that sadly wont go away

open areas that use terrain rather than buildings are intended for mobile tanks, but with it obviously comes arty since they won't be able to hit fuck all anywhere else (except for pilsen cuz LUL hit by arty inside buildings xd) so the corridory shit just shafts mediums and lights even more because they'll be the only thing for arty to shoot at

literally no reason whatsoever to play lt/mts in 2k19, and for every map designed past 2014 this issue stands.. the newer maps all have only one open area where arty can reliably hit without having to aim between buildings or pixelshots so i'm honestly just considering moving away from meds entirely since there's just so many maps now that you get handicapped in gameplay simply because arty is a hard counter to what wg wants medium tanks to do, lights can get away with spotting stuff on some of these maps and dodge arty with mobility but mediums really suffer from arty on the newer maps

the previous iteration of kharkov had this issue too, and the new one will as well

the old kharkov north area was actually decently made, the issue with it was that it was the only place arty could fire so any exposure made it insanely hard to trade well, and while i haven't tried this one yet (so won't comment on the area) the minimap tells the same story.. even if the area was decently designed it'll automatically turn sour whenever arties are involved.. the good thing about this map specifically is that it seems to be almost half the map at least, so you might just be able to not get shot at as much by it if you limit your exposure (also a problem with meds though, combat range is too close to not get lit to fire and with sub 10s reloads you'll be permalit pretty much everywhere on the map unless you snipe at the buildings)

im also not a huge fan of some the building placements but i'll probably check it out later and see if the terrain might soft nerf some of the long range firing lines with hard cover but it's wg so i wouldn't hold my breath

 

also just by looking at the minimap i found broken hulldown spots already XD

[hazzgar 730]

20 hours ago, mati_14 said:

This has been the trend for every single fucking 1.0 map, I don't fucking get it, why WG designs maps around TDs.

Funny thing is TDs still suck on those map and old maps gave TDs much more to do. It's the height of incompetence. Design a map around a class and then have that class struggle on those maps

13 hours ago, Kolni said:

there is a giant design issue within the core game that sadly wont go away

open areas that use terrain rather than buildings are intended for mobile tanks, but with it obviously comes arty since they won't be able to hit fuck all anywhere else (except for pilsen cuz LUL hit by arty inside buildings xd) so the corridory shit just shafts mediums and lights even more because they'll be the only thing for arty to shoot at

literally no reason whatsoever to play lt/mts in 2k19, and for every map designed past 2014 this issue stands.. the newer maps all have only one open area where arty can reliably hit without having to aim between buildings or pixelshots so i'm honestly just considering moving away from meds entirely since there's just so many maps now that you get handicapped in gameplay simply because arty is a hard counter to what wg wants medium tanks to do, lights can get away with spotting stuff on some of these maps and dodge arty with mobility but mediums really suffer from arty on the newer maps

the previous iteration of kharkov had this issue too, and the new one will as well

the old kharkov north area was actually decently made, the issue with it was that it was the only place arty could fire so any exposure made it insanely hard to trade well, and while i haven't tried this one yet (so won't comment on the area) the minimap tells the same story.. even if the area was decently designed it'll automatically turn sour whenever arties are involved.. the good thing about this map specifically is that it seems to be almost half the map at least, so you might just be able to not get shot at as much by it if you limit your exposure (also a problem with meds though, combat range is too close to not get lit to fire and with sub 10s reloads you'll be permalit pretty much everywhere on the map unless you snipe at the buildings)

im also not a huge fan of some the building placements but i'll probably check it out later and see if the terrain might soft nerf some of the long range firing lines with hard cover but it's wg so i wouldn't hold my breath

 

also just by looking at the minimap i found broken hulldown spots already XD

Wait as much as I agree you say no reason to play MT's yet you seem to still prefer MT's. 

[kolni 69,670,872]

2 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Wait as much as I agree you say no reason to play MT's yet you seem to still prefer MT's. 

you understand that i have played wot for 5-6 years and that it has undeniably played part in running my mental health down the gutter right?  i dont make sense 

on a more srs note tho i prefer meds because they all overperform for me, heavies and even some TDs have much more enjoyable gameplay but im just a much better MT player since the last 30k games or something are 90% mediums if you’d include the 50b among them.. ppl like carbon are good at everything and you have some ppl that clap my ht dpgs pretty hard but get clapped back in meds 

ive been drifting away from armoured gameplay entirely lately (nato meds and paper tanks mostly) because that’s where i relatively perform the best

50b/e50m/leo1 etc are tanks that right now i dont see anyone beating me in (busy with finals rn tho so am very rusty as gametime lately is low), 50b perhaps if Val has a go at it as he’s probably the best player on this forum right now but he plays armoured gameplay generally and destroys my dpgs there, and watching him play there isn’t any server variance either, ANZ server small AF but the gameplay looked just the same with small differences (both good and bad so it prob evens out) 

i just capitalise on my strengths, sure spamming nonstop chieftain/279 only will get me higher DPGs but relative to other players im just better at playing without armour, while other players are better at leveraging armour than i am

 

i’ve always liked using the map to dick people over rather than relying on micromanaging, and then mobility is much more valuable than armour, but my way is not the best way to play the game i think. but i refuse to become a meta slave and i play the game how i want to, and it’s honestly not a handicap since i cherrypick tanks that let me play that way rather than playing meta tanks unconventionally

[nabucodonsor 461]

On 5/17/2019 at 8:38 PM, Kolni said:

didnt like stb

way too much to keep track of to utilise the tank properly, it's a mess to play well.. much like strv gameplay it takes so long to get used to that it's just not worth the investment for me.. it probably has its moments but im just not gonna put it in the effort

 

on the leo side of things though i already liked it a lot in this meta (wierd i know) and it was massively overperforming for me, might just replace 50m and 50b for favourite tanks in the game if it makes live.. leo1 already kinda took the e50m since e50m isn't considered armoured anymore, and having a gun accurate enough to reliably not even be able to miss is something i really value

calling leo 5k dpgable if it hits live

Leo is a great tank for the random meta: fast and with a great gun when fully aimed. The only thing bad about it was the handling. 

 

PS: also obj140 is overhyped

[Haswell 2,399]

2 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

great gun when fully aimed

Gun handling for snapshots is way more important than final accuracy. The better the bloom, the less time you spend exposing yourself to aim in.