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LordEdwardthefith

Update 1.5.1 Common Test: It's ya boi Kharkov back at it again with another HD rework.

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6 hours ago, Haswell said:

Gun handling for snapshots is way more important than final accuracy. The better the bloom, the less time you spend exposing yourself to aim in.

Doesn’t matter because if you get spotted firing in a Leo you are playing it wrong :doge: 

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19 hours ago, Haswell said:

Gun handling for snapshots is way more important than final accuracy. The better the bloom, the less time you spend exposing yourself to aim in.

That's why when I tried it a year ago or so I had the purple vstab on it. Basically a 5% to the handling which made it sufficient to snipe or get some snap shots.

13 hours ago, Kolni said:

Doesn’t matter because if you get spotted firing in a Leo you are playing it wrong :doge: 

Also not inaccurate

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They have buffed PTA on 2nd test, engine power back up to 800, gets the 278 pen, and 323 pen the Leo 1 gets, and the traverse back up.

Tier for tier its looking better than the Leo 1 again, you are not getting a huge amount going from tier 9 to 10, 150 HP,  350 DPM, some gun handling, slightly faster top speed.  Because 278 pen, 420 alpha with like 2.5k DPM looks stronger on tier 9 than the same but a faster reload on tier 10 IMO. 

Also Leo 1 is getting the reverse speed and traverse back, so the only 'nerf' is the hit points. 

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There's a nerf to the Leopard that's bigger than many people realise without a deep knowledge of the game and a lot of time playing the tank. It's the change from HEAT to APCR for the premium rounds. 

Let's brush over this change making it the medium tank equivelant of the Type 5, with no penalty to performance at all from premium spam, and get to the real issue.

This ammo swap:

-reduces pen by 7mm at 100m, increasing at range with falloff, which HEAT doesn't suffer from. This adds up to 23% reduction (equal to 249 pen) at 500m, with the premium round. This is 81mm worse pen than the HEAT round at the same distance. If the Leopard is a sniper, maybe... let it keep a round with good pen at long range? This is a lot of pen to lose, and effectively makes you useless vs heavy tanks at longer ranges, where you could deal with them just fine on live.

-removes the second advantage of HEAT (as well as no falloff) which is it's great auto-bounce angle of 85 degrees, vs 70 degrees for APCR. Whereas now you can choose between two different primary ammo types depending on circumstances, the rework takes away that choice. If you face vehicles with extremely angled armour, like the STRV-103 or a hull-down Centurion AX, you will find that you physically cannot penetrate them, premium round or not. Not only is this a direct nerf to the Leopard, but it's a direct nerf to skilled players who know the right time to use which ammo type. No other tier X medium will suffer from this, as they all have HEAT as a premium round. 

 

Wargaming are trying to justify this with the increased shell velocity. Except, the Leopard 1's HEAT already has excellent velocity of 1100m/s. If you need more than that to hit a heavy tank, you might want to get a better mouse. Vs mediums and lights, why would you even need premium ammo at all? Just use the regular APCR and the velocity will be adequate for leading shots on fast targets.

I don't see the small increase in velocity of these premium APCR rounds as good compensation for losing nearly 100mm of pen at range, and total removal of ammo choice vs very sloped targets. Almost never will the extra shell velocity help me out, but pretty much every other game these days I encounter some tank that needs HEAT to pen beause of the angle of their armour. This ammo swap is overall quite a nasty nerf for the Leopard, and one it absolutely doesn't deserve.

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Let's be honest tho, i don't think anyone really expected the leo to be serviceable with the rebalance as listed. It will still be just as out of meta as it was previously with the leo pta still being considerably better tier for tier.

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6 hours ago, Ezz said:

Let's be honest tho, i don't think anyone really expected the leo to be serviceable with the rebalance as listed. It will still be just as out of meta as it was previously with the leo pta still being considerably better tier for tier.

Does Wargaming just hate the Leopard in particular? Last year they said even small buffs would make it OP (what a joke), when it was at a 44% average winrate.... during 3,5,7 matchmaking's peak. Now, after 4 years at the bottom of the pile, it's getting a rework that.... does nothing muh to help it, while making it worse in key areas. Meanwhile the 430U nerfs got cancelled. Da comrade.

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I don't think that they don't see the balancing issues, no matter how they weasle about and I don't want to think, that they announce the will to balance without an actual intend to do so. Ultimately I think, they don't have an actual consensus of where they want to go with the tank and the rebalancing at large and either the "infighting" or the lack of ideas leads to the standstill.

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20 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

I don't think that they don't see the balancing issues, no matter how they weasle about and I don't want to think, that they announce the will to balance without an actual intend to do so. Ultimately I think, they don't have an actual consensus of where they want to go with the tank and the rebalancing at large and either the "infighting" or the lack of ideas leads to the standstill.

Maybe they should just listen to the community? For the last few years, forum posts on the Leopard have unified around some basic changes:

Significant gun handling buffs (to Object 140 level or similar), accuracy buff (to 0.27 or better), and some increase in either alpha, base pen, or DPM.

Wargaming gave the first few, but less improved than the tank needs, and the community wanted. Then they have the better alpha and base pen, but didn't change the DPM. Okay, not awful.

So what possessed them to think that they needed to fuck around with the premium round and the health? The traverse speed and the top speed the tank never reaches? All these random changes showing they don't have a clue what they're doing...

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