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Supertest - HP buffs for tiers I to VI

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http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/708557-supertest-news-an-hp-boost-for-tier-i-vi-vehicles/

So apparently WG decided to try out the thing that almost everyone was proposing for at least as long as I am playing this game. Hooray, I guess?

IMO, this is a great change - time to kill at lower tiers is far too low to allow new players learn anything. And, for me, lower tier gameplay was generally not enjoyable at all, because of that. Higher HP pools will make the games at lower tier a bit longer, and should give players a chance to survive after making a mistake or two.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this could also lead to increased profitability (in both silver and XP) of lower tiers? More HP -> more dmg -> more xp/silver?


You can find exact HP values that they are testing here: http://www.dom1n.com/newsy/supertest-zwiekszenie-puli-hp-dla-tierow-i-vi-cz-ii/ (in 

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48 minutes ago, Tupinambis said:

This is insanely overdue. The new player experience is so insanely bad

You have no idea how many accounts below 5k battles I had in my blacklist, people who got to tier 6/7/8 and quit.

Low tiers need a complete rework, they should teach you how to play the game, they are a campfest instead. I remember my first games, they were either on malinovka, province (the good one) and prok. 3/4 of the tanks wouldn't drive 100m from their spawn location.

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Boosting low tier health values by that much will push the DPM-to-health ratio somewhere around where tier 5 currently is, except with a ±1 tier spread instead of ±2.  Tier 2 games will feel like current tier 5, except much more fair with regards to team makeup.

Any tank which relies on clipping out their opponent to be useful (i.e. most autocannon tanks, Pom-Pom users, and select TDs/arty) is going to face a rude awakening with their enemies surviving against their attacks more often, which will lead to them being retaliated against more often, which defeats the purpose of running that kind of weaponry.  Sure, they will have their own boosted health pools, but a lesser portion of retaliation damage is more than nothing at all, so these tanks will be even worse in an attrition scenario, which is exactly where this change pushes things.

If ammo capacity is not boosted to compensate, then tanks with lower damage capacities will also be worse off in the long run, as the overall available health pool effectively doubles.  Napkin math and memory puts overall available health under the 10-5 matchmaking system at an average of 2k and 2.8k for 1/2 and 2/3 respectively, which most tanks are able to cover.  Of course, they don't ever hit that potential because of inaccuracy and team contribution.  Doubling those values puts them well out of reach for most tanks.  This will probably only become an issue if you are playing very efficiently, or at a high level.  The biggest losers of this change would be either these tanks or the burst tanks, depending on your skill level, which means it will be the burst tanks for most players.  Even then, again, whether this is an issue or not depends on whether capacity is boosted to compensate.

If battles go longer and get more scrappy, more crits will be sustained, which hits the tanks with minimal crew members the most.  It is somewhat of a trade-off that some of the most heavily armored tanks are also the least crewed, so these tanks can expect to see themselves lose to more crew knockouts than before.  Big loser, but not as big as the previous two categories.

Bush camping and sniping become much more difficult since everyone has twice as much health to pad their bad decision making.  The punishment of failing the lesson "don't get hit" and reward for mastering the lesson "don't be seen" are both heavily curbed, to be replaced with effectively nothing, except perhaps "safety in numbers", which is a braindead lesson.

There is zero chance this wouldn't fuck up historical stats for playing in lower tiers.

Overall awful idea, the biggest glaring issues being the total upheaval of historical statistical precedence, the inevitable shockwave in balance from not compensating properly in certain stats, and the degeneration of meaningful decision-making.

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9 hours ago, Kuroialty said:

Overall awful idea, the biggest glaring issues being the total upheaval of historical statistical precedence, the inevitable shockwave in balance from not compensating properly in certain stats, and the degeneration of meaningful decision-making.

This is, at most, a slight inconvenience for people who seal club low tiers. They'll have to take a small amount of time to relearn how to do it and which tanks to do it in. And seriously, the notion of meaningful decision-making in low tiers.....

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13 hours ago, sohojacques said:

This is, at most, a slight inconvenience for people who seal club low tiers. They'll have to take a small amount of time to relearn how to do it and which tanks to do it in. And seriously, the notion of meaningful decision-making in low tiers.....

Population collapse was the most impactful change to low tier play to-date, and was the result of several changes aimed towards reducing the effect of clubbing that actually ruined the experience for everyone.  A massive HP boost across the board is going to make hardly any difference in restoring the population, but is going to cause even greater stat swings than what the population collapse or map pool changes have brought.  If you're not looking at player stats, it's not a big deal at all.  If you do, it becomes apparent that everything new will eclipse everything old in terms of performance except maybe in a few cases where tanks were overpowered or owned the meta.

Relearning a simple stat change as this should be a lot easier and more straightforward than the map pool change, not merely because the change is simple, but because it is a change which creates more wiggle room for players to make mistakes or be stupid.  Regardless, the extra availability of damage is going to push averages up so high that beating old records will be common for merely above-average players and effortless for veterans.

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Its a good change and needed, but looking at those super test values, its not universal.

I mean Cromwell goes from 750 to 800 but the Excalibur goes from 750 to 840? 

Also increasing the HP of already OP vehicles? T67 with more HP, lower tier arty with more HP? 

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After playing tier 7-9 for a long time I've played a few tier 5 games recently. Sure, lack of HP is a problem there, but increasing those doesn't address some of the biggest bugbears down there.

The biggest things WG needs to deal with are, IMO:

1) Massively OP arty. If they only hit next to you for half your HP you are a lucky dog. I've been one-shotted twice in a PZ IV by that disgusting USA clicker. The rate of fire and penetration is wildly stupid. Compare the pen of arty vs armor on same tier meds for low tier arty and high tier arty. Penning people happens all the time in the low tiers but fairly rarely in the high tier games. Fix that shit.

2) Derp guns. I'm guilty here, I've been playing the PZIV. But they really are a scourge for new players. Old hands know how to deal with them, mostly, but you can still get caught out and penned.

3) A handful of OP vehicles. Those are easy to spot when you have XVM and can see how many battles players have in the vehicle. You can spot the seal clubbers from a mile away with hundreds or thousands of games in their T67s, Type 64s and the rest of it. Just nerf those tanks a little and you'll create a more balanced playing field. People will still club seals with better crew, fully equipped tanks and better understanding of the game mechanics but don't give them OP vehicles to make it even worse.

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23 hours ago, Kymrel said:

After playing tier 7-9 for a long time I've played a few tier 5 games recently. Sure, lack of HP is a problem there, but increasing those doesn't address some of the biggest bugbears down there.

The biggest things WG needs to deal with are, IMO:

1) Massively OP arty. If they only hit next to you for half your HP you are a lucky dog. I've been one-shotted twice in a PZ IV by that disgusting USA clicker. The rate of fire and penetration is wildly stupid. Compare the pen of arty vs armor on same tier meds for low tier arty and high tier arty. Penning people happens all the time in the low tiers but fairly rarely in the high tier games. Fix that shit.

2) Derp guns. I'm guilty here, I've been playing the PZIV. But they really are a scourge for new players. Old hands know how to deal with them, mostly, but you can still get caught out and penned.

3) A handful of OP vehicles. Those are easy to spot when you have XVM and can see how many battles players have in the vehicle. You can spot the seal clubbers from a mile away with hundreds or thousands of games in their T67s, Type 64s and the rest of it. Just nerf those tanks a little and you'll create a more balanced playing field. People will still club seals with better crew, fully equipped tanks and better understanding of the game mechanics but don't give them OP vehicles to make it even worse.

Yeh all issues. 

T67s, many of the tier 4 TDs, and the derp guns are all problematic at those tiers IMO, the HP boost will help the one shots, as it'll be less easy to do it, but you are also buffing those tanks up as well.

And yeh Circon had a rant about the arty, many of the arties on tier 5 and 6 are not just broken, they are just flat out OP, if you look at their pen, DPM and alpha compared to the HP and armour of the vehicles they face, and then the same at higher tiers, you'll see their alpha, DPM and pen is way way too high. 

Like T92 has 60 pen and 1300 damage, even with a pen it'll struggle to one shot even many tier 8 tanks and the pen means aside from complete paper tanks like the Grille, most meds, heavies etc. in the sides/front/hull roofs it won't pen. It then has just 1600 DPM anyway, even if it pens, so realistically it can maybe take like half the HP of a tier 10 tank every minute if its lucky. 

Then the M41 HMC, it has 550 alpha on tier 5, so it is able to one shot most tier 5 meds, almost all tier 5 TDs and lights, and high roll on some of the heavies I think, plus it has 38mm pen, which means loads of tanks can be penned, and then it has a 24s reload, so it can pretty much one shot two tier 5 meds every minute and is more likely to do so because of the pen.

It's literally 3-4 times more effective than the tier 10 arty. 

It baffles me WG have just ignored it, Grille, M41, M44, Hummel, Su-122A (600 alpha of tier 5 FFS) etc. are just stupid and ruin the mid tier experience, completely easy to play and very dominant. Pretty much all of them make players over perform, especially average or below ones. 

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It's a real shame as well because with the MM changes, mid tiers are decent and get some decent MM now, so are a nice change of pace especially after the mess that tier 10 is.

But playing like a tier 6 med and losing half your health or more with a non-penning hit from some bob that has played 5k games in his OP M44 just gets old. 

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55 minutes ago, Archaic_One said:

And now news comes out that they are thinking of 'fixing' prem ammo by buffing the alpha of standard ammo, ergo all of these low tier HP buffs are going to get erased by the alpha buffs to AP and HE . . . 

Oh WG, never change

That change goes along with a 20-30% increase in HP. It's a really convoluted way to nerf premium ammo damage output.

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