Jump to content
Spinee

Sandbox: Ammo and Health Changes

Recommended Posts

New Sandbox just went up with the ammo changes they were talking about.

TL;DR: What they've done is essentially increase standard ammo damage and increase the health of all tanks, whilst keeping penetration the same. Premium and HE rounds remain unchanged.

Quote

Reasons for Adjustments

Here’s why we are making these revisions:

  1. Currently, a significant portion of players choose ammo type solely on its armor penetration. For them, this single parameter is what makes the difference between a basic and a special round. The other stats (like normalization, penetration of environmental objects, auto-bounce angle, and velocity) are often ignored.
  2. While deciding to use special rounds, these players consider their immediate tactical situation. When firing special shells, one gets a clear advantage which is not offset by anything on the battlefield itself. However, the cost of using special shells only becomes apparent when the fight is over and the player realizes they have spent more Credits than expected.

One of the main goals of the ammo rebalancing is to encourage the player to choose ammunition more responsibly and thoughtfully in battle, taking into account the possible consequences of this choice. We want the player’s decision to be influenced not only by armor penetration, but also by a slew of other factors.

Changes to Tier I–VI HP Pool Progression

Together with the alterations to ammo mechanics, we are going to modify the low-to-mid-tier vehicles’ HP pool progression.

We have already told you about a Supertest we held for it; the results were satisfying (as was your feedback), so we shall integrate renewed HP progression for all Tier I–VI vehicles for the entire duration of this Sandbox test.

Ammo Revisions: The Latest Iteration

And now for the main changes to be tested on the Sandbox server. After a long Supertest for the first round of adjustments to ammo mechanics, a scrupulous examination of all pros and cons and the weighing of different viewpoints, we have decided to come up with an alternate concept for rebalancing of shells. The new solution is a complex one, coming in two large parts:

Boosting the HP pools of all vehicles in the game. The relative increase will not be the same for every tank and will depend on two factors:

  • Its current HP pool (relative to other vehicles).
  • The vehicle’s Survivability parameter, which is defined by such stats as its armor protection and HP.

For example, boosting the HP of the Maus and the Leopard 1 by the same ratio will benefit the Maus much more. The exact gain for every vehicle will depend on how efficiently that vehicle uses its HP pool in the current tactical environment. Well-armored tanks able to mitigate more damage with high survivability will receive a proportionally smaller increase in HP compared to their less-protected brethren. This is necessary to keep the vehicles’ relative survivability at the same level. The HP pool boost will range from 15% for heavily-armored vehicles (depending on tier), up to 30% for lightly-armored ones (for an average of 26%). The aforementioned Maus and Leopard 1 will get 18% and 29% respectively. These are test values and may change if needed based on the Sandbox test results.

Increasing the one-shot damage of the basic shell. It will improve by different amounts, depending on two factors:

  • The caliber of the gun (the primary factor). The larger the caliber is, the larger the damage gain will be. For example, the current mean value for a 90-mm Tier VIII gun is 240 points. After the rebalancing, it will go up to 315 points (an increase of 31.25%). An average 150-mm gun currently has an alpha strike of 750 points; after the changes are applied, it will increase to 1060 points (an increase of 41.33%).
  • The tier of the vehicle (the secondary factor). This one will not have as big an impact as the gun caliber, but will still produce some minor value differences. We shall maintain the correlation between the alpha strike value of guns of the same caliber and the vehicle’s tier. For example, a 105-mm gun on a Tier V tank currently deals 300 points of one-time damage on average. The shell rebalancing will boost this to 400 points (an increase of 33.33%). At Tier X, currently the most common damage yield of a 105-mm gun is 390 points; once the rebalancing is done, it will increase to 525 points (by 34.62%). The difference in relative gain between Tiers V and X is just over 1%, but it still exists.

It should be noted that tanks with basic HE rounds will also gain in alpha damage, albeit less: around 22%, with the exact value depending on the gun model. Though the one-shot damage increase is smaller for HE shells, the specifics of their damage-applying mechanics will keep their efficiency the same compared to that of other basic shell types.

Important: During the Sandbox test, we will continuously fine-tune the increases to vehicles’ HP pools and basic shells’ alpha strikes as and when it is necessary, to define the optimal ratio. The one-time damage of special rounds will remain the same, as the rebalance will only affect basic rounds.

These measures are to increase the share of damage done with basic shells relative to other shell types. We also want to create more variability for the players when they are choosing their round types and considering their current tactical situation.

We are going to test the following shell usage logic:

  • The potential one-time damage of basic rounds will become higher than that of all other shell types, and you will still have to aim for enemies’ weak spots. The basic round will become the most appealing shell type with the combination of armor penetration, damage, and price.
  • The special rounds will retain the highest armor penetration amongst all shell types, and a high probability of inflicting damage as well. With these revisions, their alpha damage will likely be lower than that of basic shells, and their price will be higher. Special rounds will remain the optimal shell to fire at a heavily-armored target.
  • Damaging opponents in Sandbox will be most likely when employing HE rounds (as it currently is on main servers). Yet, the actual mean yield will be the lowest among shell types because of low penetration chance. HE shells will have many situational uses, just like now: preventing base captures, finishing off opponents low on HP, dealing greater damage to thinly-armored targets, or increasing the chance to chip a small amount of HP from an opponent with good protection.

In the Sandbox test, every shell type will be highly efficient in battle (with correct situational use). The need to choose the right round type will by itself add tactical variability, have more impact on the situation on the battlefield, and increase your effectiveness.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s a pretty clever way to “not nerf gold rounds” and then actually nerf gold rounds. I wonder if they can “not nerf” shit like the defender and Chrysler by not giving them a HP and alpha damage buff too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The special rounds will retain the highest armor penetration amongst all shell types, and a high probability of inflicting damage as well. With these revisions, their alpha damage will likely be lower than that of basic shells, and their price will be higher. Special rounds will remain the optimal shell to fire at a heavily-armored target.

What? Why? Because it deals less dmg so it is less credit efficient or they will keep the cost higher?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Likely would've been easier to just nerf the alpha on premium rounds, although one could argue that increasing hp pool in lower tier tanks is necessary.

I personally don't like this way of changing things (increasing standard round damage) because it's going to mess with my brain. I see something running an 88 or a 90mm and it suddenly hits for 300+? That'll take some getting used to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, hall0 said:

Ok just to get this right. instead of just nerfing the alpha of gold rounds they buffed the hp of all tanks and the alpha of normal shells.

It wouldn't be a Wargaming change without taking something that needs a simple change and unnecessarily overcomplicating it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They apparently replaced Murazor with Rube Goldberg as their head of balance.  Just what the game needs - even higher alpha for TDs like the JPZ and 4005 to nuke tier 8s with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This had better not hit the live servers. With WG track record, rebalancing  every tank in the game with HP buffs and alpha buffs is going to be a complete nightmare that will create problems for a veeeeery long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like a backwards way of accomplishing something that is more or less straight-forward but perhaps there are some legal repercussions for doing it the more logical way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kymrel said:

This had better not hit the live servers. With WG track record, rebalancing  every tank in the game with HP buffs and alpha buffs is going to be a complete nightmare that will create problems for a veeeeery long time.

They may as well do the gold ammo nerf and a global rebalance at the same time. The premium ammo nerf alone is already going to drastically change which vehicles are and are not effective, and already is going to mandate changes to a LOT of the vehicles, so WG may as well go all the way with a board reset.

 

Also it seems pretty clear that the HP/Alpha buff combo is just a ploy to "not nerf premium ammo" and evade legal issues with changing something that people bought with real money. I'm betting that the stockpiles of gold ammo bought with gold never really went away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't say when. Say if it goes live. I'm not convinced it will. It just screws up too much.

If this goes live we'll probably see even more people playing TDs with high pen on the regular round. And that's what the game really needed. More high-alpha TDs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Each day, WG strays further away from the light.

Reduce gold alpha and reduce its price to around 10% more expensive than standard. Is it that hard? It's not a nerf so it can be applied to premiums without the player base going full autism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, hall0 said:

Thinking about it. All stats ranking systems are pretty much fucked when this goes live. Around 30% more HP in the game across the board. All old dmg based stats become irrelevant. ^^

Pubbies won't care about that. Purples will become even more purple so xvm focus will be even worse. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, WhatTheSkara said:

Each day, WG strays further away from the light.

Reduce gold alpha and reduce its price to around 10% more expensive than standard. Is it that hard? It's not a nerf so it can be applied to premiums without the player base going full autism.

It's not as simple and clear cut as that, because now you are indirectly buffing any vehicle relying armor and making the game even more of an armor meta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuck WN8 I guess. All DPGs now mean nothing and nothing will change all those legacy stats. Every metric ever just became permanently innacurate if it goes live.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Fuck WN8 I guess. All DPGs now mean nothing and nothing will change all those legacy stats. Every metric ever just became permanently innacurate if it goes live.

I seriously doubt WG gives a fuck about our stats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what would happen to the economy of WoT, more HP means more xp and creds available... Idk, but if WG keeps the current income ratios this change might be healthy for the game.
EDIT: The alpha increase should be lower, around 20-30%, otherwise tier 8-9 will get shit on if they buff its HP up to 30%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@mati_14 by all accounts damage per shot is going up more than HP is. So less shots per game could easily equal less credits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buffing the HP is a given thing considering how fast teams crumble these days.

Buffing the alpha is a stupid idea as you are not fixing the problem. Actually they are making it worse by buffing TDs who already don't need to spam gold. So practically when you will make  a mistake you will punished much harder.  For example TDs with 750 alpha on the live server need 4 shots on avg to kill a Maus. On the Sandbox server, taking in account the HP buff to it, it goes down to just a bit more than 3.

As I have said before the WG does not understand how their game works especially the HP stat.

A way simpler idea is to just remove gold rounds, bring back weakspots and call it a day. In this way you can balance tanks around their pen and add some dept to the game. For example you could give higher pen to heavies than mediums but increase HTs  pen drop over distance. Let's imagine an IS7 with 270 AP pen vs a 260 APCR 140: at a 100m the pen on both tanks  is the same as their original stat, but while the pen on the heavy starts to drop after the 100m, the medium's pen starts dropping at 400m. Also the IS7's pen at 300-400m should drop quite a bit forcing the assault heavy in a more cqc role. Furthermore mediums would keep a higher shell velocity while heavies will have the better normalization value to help them a close range. In this way tanks that cant flank at all should have enough pen to go trough the WEAKSPOTS  of opposing tanks. 

TDs on the other hand would be the tanks who lose the least a longer ranger  while keeping the highest pen. 

You could add even more dept to the game by differentiate  tanks of the same kind by tweaking their pen/pen drop:  for example sniping tanks like the Leo1 will have a lower pen drop than a 430u and a higher shell velocity.

EZ but this would take more than two brain cells I guess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nabucodonsor said:

Buffing the HP is a given thing considering how fast teams crumble these days.

Buffing the alpha is a stupid idea as you are not fixing the problem. Actually they are making it worse by buffing TDs who already don't need to spam gold. So practically when you will make  a mistake you will punished much harder.  For example TDs with 750 alpha on the live server need 4 shots on avg to kill a Maus. On the Sandbox server, taking in account the HP buff to it, it goes down to just a bit more than 3.

As I have said before the WG does not understand how their game works especially the HP stat.

A way simpler idea is to just remove gold rounds, bring back weakspots and call it a day. In this way you can balance tanks around their pen and add some dept to the game. For example you could give higher pen to heavies than mediums but increase HTs  pen drop over distance. Let's imagine an IS7 with 270 AP pen vs a 260 APCR 140: at a 100m the pen on both tanks  is the same as their original stat, but while the pen on the heavy starts to drop after the 100m, the medium's pen starts dropping at 400m. Also the IS7's pen at 300-400m should drop quite a bit forcing the assault heavy in a more cqc role. Furthermore mediums would keep a higher shell velocity while heavies will have the better normalization value to help them a close range. In this way tanks that cant flank at all should have enough pen to go trough the WEAKSPOTS  of opposing tanks. 

TDs on the other hand would be the tanks who lose the least a longer ranger  while keeping the highest pen. 

You could add even more dept to the game by differentiate  tanks of the same kind by tweaking their pen/pen drop:  for example sniping tanks like the Leo1 will have a lower pen drop than a 430u and a higher shell velocity.

EZ but this would take more than two brain cells I guess

its a decent idea, would need to be implemented on a tank by tank basis though. 

 

their current idea for a change however still isn't going to fix the problem, all its gonna do is make tanks like the 268v4 even more broken yet again. they have to fix fucking armour values, all these stupid drastic changes are pointless. Nerf the powercreeped armour, add actual weakspots back, nerf gold rounds alpha by 25%. boom done, go back to redesigning arty again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...