A Couple Things I Noticed Coming Back After 3 Years

[RNG_ 87]

I started playing back in 2013 and played fairly solidly up until I left for school in 2016. Some friends got me interested in playing the campaign around Christmas and again for the most recent one. After that I decided comp play was kinda fun again and that I might check out some pubs to get some of the new tanks. These are a couple observations I had after jumping back into the game, I would be interested to hear other peoples thoughts on them.

- Good lord I am bad! I used to comfortably sit around 3k+ and thought that most people should be able to. I thought I would be able to pick up where I left off after a few rusty games but that is definitely not the case.

- The meta is simultaneously much more passive and much more aggressive. By this I mean it feels like as a single player there are much fewer chances to make successful aggressive plays to change the outcome of the game or push the pace of a match. However on a whole team scale the matches feel like they are much faster in general. The average game feels about 4-5min in length with few exceptions. It feels like there is very little back and forth where a good play can change the game and more lopsided rolls each way. I'm not sure if this is a symptom of the new maps or just me being bad but the game flow definitely feels very different.

-There are a lot of new and reworked maps. The general theme seems to be that there are a couple areas made viable for each type of tank that you are mostly shoe horned into playing with very little room to take different/aggressive positions. Do you guys find this to be the case or am I just out of touch when it comes to map knowledge?

-Arty is still here, it no longer one shots you most of the time which is nice I guess. I realize the rework is ancient history to most people now but what was/is peoples overall opinion on it? From my games coming back it feels like we didn't really go anywhere just maybe rearrange the furniture a bit. Still has the overall same effect of punishing anyone who dares get spotted but maybe even more effectively now with the bigger splash.

-The player base feels super tiny. When I left the top end was already a fairly small group who mostly knew of each other but there was still a multiple viable clans and a good chunk of mid level clans that sometimes punched above their weight. Now it seems like there is only a hand full of the mid level clans and even fewer high level clans. Has the player base really shrunk this much or do I just miss-remember?

-Kinda linking on to the last point but it feels like most of the people I used to play with are gone or log on once in a blue moon. Is the player base really this dead or is it just a new group playing now? 

 

Edit: Also I apologize if this is the wrong sub section for this post please do whatever you need to do if it is.

 

TL;DR, Push me to the edge all my friends are dead?

[WhatTheSkara 342]

If you want to see what has changed, check the thread made by Assassin in this section to see what has changed.

Short version: maps are shit, a lot of TD nests in convenient locations and the usual corridor campfest that Russian pubbies love so much, arty is more annoying because it fucks in the ass more consistently, a tiny length of dick at the time, rather than going from your anus to your throat in one single push. Hulldown tanks are meta, so anything with 300mm+ of turret armour AND at least 10 degrees of depression is mandatory to win. There are the French wheeled light tanks that are a nightmare to fight against, because the wheels are black holes and they go sanic fast both forwards AND backwards (t10 goes 95, t8s go 80), to counter their mobility they have low pen guns and shit view range (350m base on the tier 10). And there's a new kid on the block called obj279e that cannot be penned frontally by anything below 330 pen, only obtainable through a new campaign that makes you wish you had cholera and aids instead.

 

But overall the game can still be fun.

In the new ultra grindy Front Line mode.

[nabucodonsor 461]

To sum up what happened, Gold ammo for free made heavies useless therefore WG thought that they should buff armour rather than removing  premium shells. This has led to power creep which means that some tanks can steamroll a flank because nothing can counter them. As a conquence battles last less and less.

The power creep has made the game dumber as people are less worried about aiming and more about pressing the 2 key. So many have left. In addition WG has made huge PR mistakes (like the Foch gate), created OP tanks for the month (which drive people away because their tank was now suddendly shit like E5 after the Sconq) and OP pay to win premium tanks. These mistakes have pushed people away from the game especially good players making the playerbase worse and smaller. More bad players over good ones has helped the rise of turbobattles as bad players do not know what to do and die early hence the quick falls of teams.

Arty still sucks and still punishes you for playing the game.

WG has made maps with many OP camping spots. Pubbies tend to push them and die.

So practically you either drive a unpennable tank and murder the poor bastards who cant do shit to you or you camp and punish idiots who make mistakes and then clean up.

This is the new meta

 

[Deus__Ex__Machina 983]

The game is 100% more fast paced now, more or less being Called the SteamRoll Meta currently.

The arrival of more MBT like tanks with combinations of Armor/Speed/Alpha/ and RoF (5A,277,430U,V4,Cheiftian,279)has caused higher tier game play to fall apart, even i find it difficult to perform at 3k+ on a regular anymore. also tanks like the EBR contribute to this, yolo'ing in and spotting everyone within the first 30 seconds of the game.

The playerbase you knew is gone, as you mentioned a few oldies might pop-in every once in a blue moon to check out major changes....but thats about it.

Mid level clans are dead, the gap (at least for NA) between good/shit clans has grown larger than ever. its basically a few good clans and then everyone else is shit. to further that point, there's hardly any competition in competitive WoT (again for NA) anymore.....its the same clans dominating over and over rinse and repeat style

[kolni 69,670,769]

game still playable but you got to stick to the right tanks, if you meta slave you can sort of enjoy it

i am not though but luckily leo1, 50b and m60 were already my 3 favourite tanks to play even before the m60 and leo1 were buffed so i still get enjoyment out of playing tanks i like

[MagicalFlyingFox 1,010]

I wonder if the shift in meta makes other servers closer to the ASIA server where you get less morons just driving into the open for no apparent reason.

 

[Matross 145]

Welcome back RNG!

Just my $0.02.

- Good lord I am bad! I used to comfortably sit around 3k+ and thought that most people should be able to. I thought I would be able to pick up where I left off after a few rusty games but that is definitely not the case.
  ===> Takes some time getting used to. Teams are a lot more passive and campy these days.

- The meta is simultaneously much more passive and much more aggressive. By this I mean it feels like as a single player there are much fewer chances to make successful aggressive plays to change the outcome of the game or push the pace of a match. However on a whole team scale the matches feel like they are much faster in general. The average game feels about 4-5min in length with few exceptions. It feels like there is very little back and forth where a good play can change the game and more lopsided rolls each way. I'm not sure if this is a symptom of the new maps or just me being bad but the game flow definitely feels very different.
  ===> Bad maps & steam rolling platoons (a good 3 man platoon can totally dominate a flank, which causes domino effect, and the 3-4 min games). With the new player base (or evolution of bad players) where they camp and wait for prey, the passive play gets punished by the bigger flank of attackers or coordinated attack of a platoon. The maps are a more corridor-like and allows TD's to camp better and hull down tanks to defend easier. It rewards camping game play imho. Unless you have the overwhelming force and/or coordinating in a platoon the long matches are pretty much campy stalemates where you have to carefully move around the map and look for cross shots.

-There are a lot of new and reworked maps. The general theme seems to be that there are a couple areas made viable for each type of tank that you are mostly shoe horned into playing with very little room to take different/aggressive positions. Do you guys find this to be the case or am I just out of touch when it comes to map knowledge?
  ===> Pretty much, it got easier for TD's to camp safely and tanks to go hull down. The only aggressive plays I have seen are pretty much from mass pushes from one flank. The new wheely-bois are the ones that really "scout" actively at least, since they have the speed to try and spot a camping nest of TD's and hulldown tanks, and make it out alive doing "passes" if you would. Regular light tanks become more important end game than ever, trying to find the last few tanks that are hiding in their camping nests. 

-Arty is still here, it no longer one shots you most of the time which is nice I guess. I realize the rework is ancient history to most people now but what was/is peoples overall opinion on it? From my games coming back it feels like we didn't really go anywhere just maybe rearrange the furniture a bit. Still has the overall same effect of punishing anyone who dares get spotted but maybe even more effectively now with the bigger splash.
  ===> Arty is still dangerous. It helps defenders defend easier against pushes, and also, does damage to campers. IMHO they have become more effective than before since they shoot more often. Yeah, they can't one shot as easily, but still do a good 300-500 damage per shot, plush with the stun mechanic, if you're sitting outside in a field, you're probably going to have a bad time with the camping "meta".

-The player base feels super tiny. When I left the top end was already a fairly small group who mostly knew of each other but there was still a multiple viable clans and a good chunk of mid level clans that sometimes punched above their weight. Now it seems like there is only a hand full of the mid level clans and even fewer high level clans. Has the player base really shrunk this much or do I just miss-remember?
  ===> There are new "good players" and fewer of the "best" (guess they retired). Since the "best" players left, the newer "good players" are the "best" players? Not sure. For me, I used to be dark blue, sometimes purple, but now, my aggressive play style is punished and now I have to work harder to be dark blue. Fck these missions forreal, if I didn't grind missions for T-55A, I could probably be dark blue/light purple again. 

-Kinda linking on to the last point but it feels like most of the people I used to play with are gone or log on once in a blue moon. Is the player base really this dead or is it just a new group playing now? 
  ===> I think it's new players, and more kid's playing. I noticed WG is going full ham with experience boosters, so people don't have to "grind" as much for their higher level tanks. Things go on sale left and right, and overall I feel like WG is doing everything they can to make this game more accessible to people, giving them incentives to stick around and play more. Even monthly missions or events usually reward playing multiple tiers (5-6, 6-7, 8-9 or 8-10).  

The good things that changed? IMHO:
- The matchmaker
- Arty nerf (yeah, it sucks they shoot more often + having stun mechanic, but at least no more getting 1 shotted?)
- New tanks to play with
- New game modes (depends on if you play them or not)
- x5 XP bonus's and option to weed out maps out of rotation if you have WoT Premium account

The bad IMHO:
- They're going to nerf gold shells, and reward regular shell use
- They nerfed my beloved Type 5
- Arty shoots more often, introduction of wheelybois (depends if you love playing them or hate countering them)
- Camp fest rewarding corridor style maps / players that like to camp
- I feel the player base has overall less situational awareness than before

[Tman450 210]

I missed you friend.

pretty much yes for most of your observations.

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

On 7/31/2019 at 4:56 PM, nabucodonsor said:

To sum up what happened, Gold ammo for free made heavies useless therefore WG thought that they should buff armour rather than removing  premium shells. This has led to power creep which means that some tanks can steamroll a flank because nothing can counter them. As a consequence battles last less and less.

The power creep has made the game dumber as people are less worried about aiming and more about pressing the 2 key. So many have left. In addition WG has made huge PR mistakes  (like the Foch gate)  created OP tanks for the month (which drive people away because their tank was now suddendly shit like E5 after the Sconq) and OP pay to win premium tanks. These mistakes have pushed people away from the game especially good players making the playerbase worse and smaller. More bad players over good ones has helped the rise of turbobattles as bad players do not know what to do and die early hence the quick falls of teams.

Arty still sucks and still punishes you for playing the game.

WG has made maps with many OP camping spots. Pubbies tend to push them and die.

So practically you either drive a unpennable tank and murder the poor bastards who cant do shit to you or you camp and punish idiots who make mistakes and then clean up.

This is the new meta

 

 

You have a very delusional view concerning the game in certain things.

Yes, l do agree that war gaming has released more and more heavy tanks, with small weakspots. And many new tanks are given spaced armour shields to protect them from HEAT prem rounds. And with many other heavy tanks, war gaming has taken it up upon themselves to thicken the armour voiding prior weaknesses.  This much is true, and very few would argue with you.

And yes, l do agree that newer and stronger tanks skew the favour of battle. For instance 1 team is arrayed with vehicles like FV42O1, Maus, 0bj 9O7, Super Conq, 26Os, WZ5A or 277......while the other team gets stuck with tanks like Jag Pz, AMX3OB, M6O, lS4. This is a problem of course, but no real different than before, where a team could be stuck with AMX5OB and the other team has Maus. For instance demoralizing on city map. Whereas the exact opposite is different in maps like Prokh, Malin, Redshire  -  one team has loads of AMX5OB and 113, whereas the other stuck with Maus and E-Hundo. This has always been a problem. The problem lies amplified, where clan reward vehicles typically are taken out by exceptional players. So you have a better tank, multiplied with a better player driving that tank, further weighted if in platoon....

Yes, l do agree that some very needless camping spots have been added. Like El Hall  spawn ridges, north one having retarded bushes. 0r Ghost town spawn ridges. 0r Sand River having the extremely retarded E/F1 lookout. And although Erlen l think has changed for the better, adding in bushed spots to reset/guard cap was quite retarded. 

.....

But after, we seem to have a completely different outlook, and l don't like your opinions. Pressing 2 ==//== not aiming. lf that is what you think,  sigh. Looking at pictures using Tanks GG, examining vehicles like lS7, 26O, 252Y  -  you see their live model does not change really at all, using 33Omm HEAT pen. Still a shitload of red, therefore making aiming very necessary. With 252Y, using 28Omm HEAT pen again, the tank virtually remains the same, making aiming necessary.  The problem with prem ammunition, is the change in tanks that use thick flat slab armour, like E-Hundo / Maus / Jag Pz / Type 4  &  5. Here, their larger flat sheets of armour, which regularly repel AP attack, are opened up to become very weak vs 33O and 34Omm HEAT. And 325mm APCR. But still, l believe with these cases, you need to aim. These tanks, still have loads of no-no shot trap areas, that will swallow 35Omm HEAT from VK72O1. l don't think this is a problem, especially competitively where in clan wars you still see post-game stats with people bouncing tonne of damage with everyone firing prem too. The problem thereby is not prem rounds negating armour, and turning heavy tanks into a T0G......no. The problem is prem rounds, turning flat armoured box tanks into more softer targets. And this can be seen everywhere, from flat tanks like 0l and AT8 in tier 6 -> Type 5 and Maus in tier X

Artillery is a problem, in that the class is broken and shitters, who are otherwise near incapable of performing well in other classes can deal damage now. But artillery is not over-powered, in that they deal exorbitant amounts of damage per game per tiers. Maybe M44 aside, artillery still tends to suffer large skill caps,  but the problem is the extremely low skill floor, to which any potato 44% near-bot can still do well.  A Conq GC, can deal five-hundred damage with a direct hit on a Maus, then must wait a shitload of time. An obj 9O7 or Strv, can deal lower damage, but far more consistently and faster. Which is why artillery is always last place in damage dealt across high tiers. But the important part being left out, is the most retarded of players are still capable of dealing this damage, even if damage ultimately gets capped.  Artillery is way better now than before. Do l want to play 121 med, and take 1,85O damage from M53/M55?  0r do l want to play and take 45O damage, get stunned 15 seconds, and live to shit on others later

 

 

 

 

[nabucodonsor 461]

@Dirizon if you read my post you'd notice that I said that the game is more about pressing the 2 key than being good at aiming at weakspots that aren't pennable with standard rounds. My point is that you NEED GOLD to pen those weakspots. Try penning the cupola of a Type 5 or SConq without gold. It is extremely hard and most of the time it you will bounce. This means that you will LOSE many games if you dont load premium ammo. What's the point of aiming if you bounce anyway. 

Sure we can both agree that you still need to aim at those "weakspots" even with gold but you need to PAY more credits to do so. So first you press the 2 key then you aim. Hence 2 key > aiming.

About arty: it's still cancer. Even if you get for only 400 dmg remeber that you still lose 20% of you HP if your tank has a total of 2k HP. It is a huge amount you pay for just playing the game. 3 arties focusing you can bring your hit points so low that can have a huge impact on your game, limiting your capabilities to carry.

It's the same shit just with a different flavour.

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

Are you for or against prem rounds?  How you say it, seems like you are against them conceptually.

 

- -  But remarks like gold ammo for free, tend not to make sense, because most are many times more expensive than AP / HE.

- -  Even without varying armour buffs, heavy tank armour like lS7 was still and remains now,  useful not useless. 

- -  Pressing the 2 key does not replace varied aspects of the game, that leads players to being good or bad. This is a topic covered by many streamers such as Lemmingrush, Taugrim, Sirfoch, Skill4. Just because someone wishes to aim less, by firing more prem ammo, does not make them a great player. Prem rounds are basically a tool, a tool at someones disposal. And good players, use all kinds and assortments of tools in order to get the results they want.

- -  its hard to aim for weakspots, when accuracy itself is such a retarded and randomly dependent attribute. Lemming rush, dez gamez have both taken accuracy studies into deep consideration, and results aren't too thrilling. Furthermore, accuracy is extremely difficult to buff, because when accuracy is made more narrowing and precise, all of a sudden you get tanks like KV2,  oi,  oho,  lS tank nailing shots they really shouldn't be. Anfield suggested a good idea, in that accuracy improves with your tank, within the current game you are in, based on consecutive shots struck for damage dealt. Ricochets and non-pens do not count, but track damage and observation damage, do count because they are damage in a way  (modules)  So for example, if you started a game with WZ12OG, using .34 acc quotient based only on one-hundred crew, BlA, and ventilation. Making 3 direct hit shots causing damage, increases the accuracy to O.33    Another 3 shots increases the accuracy to O.32,  another 3 for O.31 and so on.  The problem is, this still doesn't fix the complete randomness of firing sigma within your supposed accurate cross-hairs. Even E5OM, UDES, Grille 15 miss shots all the time despite aiming all the way, and boasting incredible accuracy.  Another train of thought, would be to remove accuracy altogether. Nerf tank guns dispersion more like vehicles such as Grille 15, FV183, FV4K5, Hellcat, T34 Heavy, Etc. Vehicles with awful gun bloom. Nerf aim-times too. Nerf shell velocity too. But then make perfect red-dot accuracy, where your shell travels true all the time when you wait and fully aim in. You have a normal cross-hairs as you would in tanks currently, moving around and swiveling and aiming, but when you aim all the way in and hear the guns  ^thud^  you get the red dot sight and your shot is one-hundred percent guarantee.  This discourages absolutely stupid firing-on-the-move and hitting shit 35Om away, because gun dispersion are now bad. And it encourages aiming true and patience, to reward users with a good shot. But players must remain aware, because stopping to aim makes you vulnerable. 

 

[Ezz 1,761]

Would it be ok if you two just choose one thread to do this in?